Lies My History Teacher Told Me

[jhungary]

That sounds like a tongue twister !

How about this?

Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager ? imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.

Because you are an American. You are not that 'enlightened'. If you are so enlightened, then you would be a 'real' American.

lol my passport seems pretty real to me.....lol

 

[gambit]

OK. Sometimes you claim you are a Vietnamese, now you claim you grew up in Hawaii. This kind of academics is out of my reach. It is pointless to continue. BTW, Hawaii was settled by Japanese even before the war... wait, but how can I claim this? I am only an academician.

It is so amusing playing with you, academician.

Hawaii is dominated by Japanese, but its citizens composed of just about every Asian ethnic group. After the Vietnam War ended in 1975, many Vietnamese settled in Hawaii precisely because of that Asian diversity. My family is one such and I was only 12 yrs old when we fled. So that make you looks pretty stupid every time you called me a collaborator to the American 'aggressors' in Viet Nam. So once again, do not think you know America because I proved again and again you do not.

 

[Aepsilons]

What ? I thought the Enigma was the German Code-Machine - What did the Japanese have to do with it ?

Don't you know? After the British broke the Enigma Code, they transferred the same apparatus to the United States. The United States then used that box to translate every single message the Imperial Japanese War Ministry sent to the Imperial Army, Imperial Navy and Imperial Air Services throughout the Japanese Empire.

Funny really. Without the enigma code breaker box, the Americans would have never found us at Midway (which we were planning to take), without the Enigma code breaker box, we would never have lost our greatest Admiral, the Late Yamamoto Isoroku. The war would have gone longer, who knows, even would have turned into the favor of the Rising Sun.

Perhaps many of you here today would be speaking Japanese, not English.

 

[Armstrong]

How about this?

Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager ? imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.

Ask Mrs.jhungary to say that a 100 times after shes had a long hard day of back-breaking work and shes standing near a baseball bat !

 

[VCheng]

Therein lies the unique aspect of Admiral Yamamoto. His personal opinings were his own , that did not influence his decision and plan to strike Pearl Harbor, above all else, the sense of duty to the Nation trumped personal opinions. In fact, I would even say that Yamamoto was more of a 'defense' player. His peer, Admiral Nagumo, actually called for the Nihon Kaigun to initiate the invasion and occupation of Hawaii after the Kido Butai pummeled the defenses.

1. Yamamoto sought to target only military facilities and only Pacific Fleet assets
2. Nagumo wanted to strike Pacific Naval Assets + strategic civilian areas
3. Yamamoto proposed for the striking at Pearl + retreat to Japan-occupied areas
4. Nagumo protested, stating that defense was the worst decision; Nagumo sought to capture Hawaii and then strike Panama Canal + consider invading Western coast of the USA.

General Yamamoto was an honorable man, he knew what the Japanese did was shameful and would invite retribution:

"In The Reluctant Admiral, Hiroyuki Agawa gives a quotation from a reply by Admiral Yamamoto to Ogata Taketora on January 9, 1942, which is similar to the famous version: "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack."

 

[Armstrong]

Perhaps many of you here today would be speaking Japanese, not English.

I thought the Enigma was a German Code-Machine that had nothing to with the Japanese !

And me speaking Japanese ?

Its a good thing too otherwise Japanese men wouldn't be able to find any Japanese spouses 'cause Pakistani suave and panache would've ensured that we would've won their hearts instead !

 

[jhungary]

It came from the following statement in which you implied Nazis as racists and acquitted Americans from any such sin. Whereas the fact of the matter is, Americans were as much racists as were their European cousins and it was not Japan where segregation laws were sill enforced until late1960s, it was US.

Hence you are saying, a racist in the past cannot call other racist?

I know bible may not be your thing but

He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her. Ringing a bell?

So, by your logic, once certain people committed act of terror then then whole sort of people regardless of time and history would be terrorist?

lol

Ask Mrs.jhungary to say that a 100 times after shes had a long hard day of back-breaking work and shes standing near a baseball bat !

to be honest.....she can't even say "Apple" right.......I am not going to commit ritual suicide......

 

[Aepsilons]

General Yamamoto was an honorable man, he knew what the Japanese did was shameful and would invite retribution:

"In The Reluctant Admiral, Hiroyuki Agawa gives a quotation from a reply by Admiral Yamamoto to Ogata Taketora on January 9, 1942, which is similar to the famous version: "A military man can scarcely pride himself on having 'smitten a sleeping enemy'; it is more a matter of shame, simply, for the one smitten. I would rather you made your appraisal after seeing what the enemy does, since it is certain that, angered and outraged, he will soon launch a determined counterattack."

Yes. Yamamoto studied in Harvard as a scholar student, and drove all across the United States from coast to coast, even traveled to Texas, Florida, Wyoming. He mentioned that to the Imperial War Ministry that a war with the United States would be 'impractical' due to the industrial might of the United States.

Given, Japan's population during that time was 100 million (quite large by the times' standards), but the United States was nearing 200 million, the United States had the industrial output potential that was 3 times of Japan's -- at the time. He also knew how America's automobile plants could be easily converted to production of military hardware.

Japan, at that time, had experience in battling and defeating our enemies. In 1894 we defeated the Chinese utterly eradicating their navy, and their entire army in Korea. The Chinese surrendered unconditionally. In 1905 the Japanese fought against Russia , eradicating the entire Russian Baltic Fleet, and annihilating the Russian Army at Port Arthur , inflicting heavy casualties on the Russians, until they sued for peace to the Rising Sun. IN 1915, Japan occupied German territories in China called Tsingtao and also captured German held territories in the central pacific , which were then included into The Japanese Pacific Mandate.

So you see in three wars, Japan was victorious in. Defeating our enemies with relative ease and with impunity.

The War with America was different. We met our match in America. They defeated us in our Zenith.

In other words, never underestimate the Americans.

I thought the Enigma was a German Code-Machine that had nothing to with the Japanese !

The Enigma Code Breaker. The British developed the breaker to that box with another box. And true to their Anglo-Saxon heritage, the Americans were given that apparatus via the British.

The Mother - Child duo, if you may.

 

[VCheng]

The War with America was different. We met our match in America. They defeated us in our Zenith.

In other words, never underestimate the Americans.

Those who underestimate any enemy do so at their own peril, no matter who. History tell us so. Clearly.

The Enigma Code Breaker. The British developed the breaker to that box with another box. And true to their Anglo-Saxon heritage, the Americans were given that apparatus via the British.

Because the British needed US support on the home front and in Europe.

 

[RazorMC]

Japan attacked USA first, and then wanted peace on its own terms too. It just doesn't work that way. USA wanted an unconditional surrender, and achieved it through superior power, as it should have, and did.

I agree that anyone with enough strength has always used excessive force to achieve their goals, but the US was aware of an impending Japanese attack and let it happen.

 

[Psychic]

Yes. Yamamoto studied in Harvard as a scholar student, and drove all across the United States from coast to coast, even traveled to Texas, Florida, Wyoming. He mentioned that to the Imperial War Ministry that a war with the United States would be 'impractical' due to the industrial might of the United States.
Given, Japan's population during that time was 100 million (quite large by the times' standards), but the United States was nearing 200 million, the United States had the industrial output potential that was 3 times of Japan's -- at the time. He also knew how America's automobile plants could be easily converted to production of military hardware.

Interestingly another great Japanese commander Maj Gen Tadamichi Kuribayachi had a similar experience in USA. He also used to talk about the superior industrial capacity of USA.

 

[VCheng]

I agree that anyone with enough strength has always used excessive force to achieve their goals, but the US was aware of an impending Japanese attack and let it happen.

That is just another slur. USA did not know. The British had some suspicion but were not sure.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

This is known fact that Japan was looking to surrender well before the bombs were dropped. So many people killed needlessly.

It's not known in Exceptionalistan.

 

[jhungary]

read some previous posts i think gambit or it was you who said Japanese managed to convert peanut oil into lubricant and some other such developments.

gambit says this .

I know about his Aryan race theory and that is why I am saying he was as much unjustified in his actions as you were.

ironically when I agree with killings in wars/during wars many of forum members declare me a racist and when I oppose it on basis of humanity all of you think am criticizing you on basis of your nationality[

The question is not How is it a threat when japan are all but out, the question is HOW DO YOU KNOW.

You know now as it was 70 years ago and dust is all but settled, If you want to justify an historical event, you don't look at it as if it happened now with a clear image on what had happened and carefully chronicled, but instead you should use a eyes set in 1945.

Unless Japan broadcasted their inability to make war, there are no way one could know what Japanese are up to at that point. For all the American in 1945 know, Japan could have been working on their own A-Bomb, (Which is actually true) and you never know how close they are to succeed.

If you have to justify any historical event by the knowledge of what you now know, you will ended up hating history. As None of them are right to begin with, otherwise there will not be any incidence, hence no history.

I don't care if you are American, Pakistani, Indian, or Martian, the reason I don't agree with you because how you see thing, History is a studied of event, it does not comes with the tag right or wrong, as what you think is wrong now, might make perfect sense back when that incident happened. But one thing you will not do is look at an historical event with modern eyes.

I agree that anyone with enough strength has always used excessive force to achieve their goals, but the US was aware of an impending Japanese attack and let it happen.

What you said is completely illogical

If the attack happened on anywhere but Pearl Harbor (like Kiska or Aleutian island) then I will understand why you would think the US knew about the attack but decided to do nothing about it. Just for an excuse to enter the war.

But the fact is, Pearl Harbour is what EVERYTHING the US have in the pacific, there are no Sesabo Air Station back in 1940, nor Misawa Naval Base in 1940, US does not have base in South Korea as South Korea does not exist, US does not have Bases in Singapore back in 1940 and Everything the US have to forward deploy is in Hawaii. Other they will have to go back all the way to US West Coast.

The fact is the attack happened and 80% of the base and its asset is destroyed in the Pacific would have mean while they start the war they want, with absolutely nothing to start with? That basically either mean US Government is uber incompetent nor this is one genius way to start a war that we still don't think it could work.

In case you want to say US Carrier escape unharmed, back then Aircraft Carrier is not look seriously as a tool of war, and the US only have 3 Carrier by the time the Japanese Attacked. And it would not make sense to have 8 battleship and 5 cruiser destroyed just to mask the Carrier, even Carrier need escort themselves.

 

[gambit]

For all the American in 1945 know, Japan could have been working on their own A-Bomb, (Which is actually true) and you never know how close they are to succeed.

Just in case anyone here thinks we Americans make this up to justify the A-bombs on Japan.

German submarine U-234 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Her first and only mission into enemy territory consisted of the attempted delivery of uranium oxide and German advanced weapons technology to the Empire of Japan.