Let’s delete Islamic/Islamist labels for terrorists

[Styx]

they follow wahhab its basically an arab thing. why should muslims from bangladesh indonesia malaysia turkey etc be accountable for them

there is a difference between ethnicity and religion please differentiate between them

agree, the discourse in western society/right wing media and talking heads lacks nuance for the most part.

virtually all the jihadi terror comes from wahabi/salafist/islamo-fascist/ultra religious arabs.

though sadly it does seem to be spreading to other regions of the world as well now, a large section of Pakistani society is firmly in it's grip, saudis are also building hundreds of mosques the world over, including in Bangladesh, all of which will spread their intolerant literalist and supremacist version of Islam.

and this aszhole trump is giving them almost 500 billion worth of weapons, not looking very good for the world.

 

[Sliver]

they follow wahhab its basically an arab thing. why should muslims from bangladesh indonesia malaysia turkey etc be accountable for them

there is a difference between ethnicity and religion please differentiate between them

I am with you on this. But, my friend, many Muslims tend to "want" to be called Muslims first and their nationality later. I have been on this forum long enough to know that and understand thats a big pull for most Muslims (the brotherhood that Islam brings).

 

[24 Hours]

He was isis follower who follow wahhab

why should my community be targeted for actions of arabs. makes no sense

Though you have a point race plays a factor here. As far as these kinds of people are concerned we're all just "brown." Being brown and having a beard=Muslims. Additionally ISIL/Daesh considers itself as an Islamic state meant for all Muslims. So it really expands. So really, with what's going on in places like Nigeria and the Philippines, as long as you're the M word to them, you're a threat.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Islam-ist word was created in light of success of the previous popular terminology

1- Communist
2- Socialist
3- Imperialist
4- Anarchist
5- Revolutionist


Notice there won't be a term "CHRISTIAN-IST" , the Jew-ist , they will always be considered "Angry citizens". When some military worker will drop a bomb by mistake some where they will be called "Independent contractor"

Every one is touching the
MYSTICAL glowing ball and we are cool now

Every one will get a piece of pie !!! Every one will get some goods ...

I am a big fan of pies


Simple formula , fill a Bag full of cash !!!! Fill it good and hand it to Donald J Trump your master, ops slip of tounge what I mean was your deep friend.

Works with me not sure why they had to do a drama about "Revolutionizing the Muslim world" hahahahahahah .....


Been watching this revolution since 70's "Revolutionizing the Muslim world"

Some things just never change

 

[Godman]

What else are you going to call them?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

This is how it works

The problem is that this categorization really has loose boundries , becasue most None Muslims generally feel Muslim/Islamist are two interchangable entities. This idea is quite spread and circulated in Western Media


And that is why you generally see the HATE CRIME against normal Muslims climbing in most western cities



So what is this Phenomenon causing chaos across countries , it's certainly product of wars and neglect , but it really is just an entity formed from the outcome of continuous wars and has no real connection to the faith


Most of the countries who started the wars in 90's in region such as

• Gulf war 1
• Gulf war 2
• Post 911 war Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria these were all planned affairs

Same nations will say well this is not our fault it just got created becasue Muslims just love war however I sincerely beg to differ that is not the case ....

Rouge entities are only formed when you have stupid wars in region for 20-30 years


Just kinda hilarious that the same nations who started the wars for 30 year in region are now claiming to be the Leaderhip for Muslims hahahahahaaha

Now why the Militias or rouge entities spreading god knows ....

 

[Śakra]

Ignoring the problem won't make it go away.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We need to start by Destroying Raw agents in Afghanistan and after that we will review what needs attention

RAW has been involved in Terrorist activites in Pakistan , and we have captured group of operatives.


As for this Islamist/Muslim debate , I think the whole violent aspect of the situation is directly tied to conflict of war in middle east. WARS create , rouge groups

Has nothing to do with a every day Muslims who is not effected by war
and this analogy is true for any Human that comes close to conflict of WAR
Their psychology /mind changes when impacted by war and death

WAR CREATES = ROUGE GROUPS .. who in turn develop radical idealogies

But we have all touched the Glowing ball and all is forgotten

"Hey Every body look we are touching the glowing ball , it will erase the past 30 years and what policies our administrations favored ...look now we are all touching together ....all is good now ... we are ok ...now SERIOUSLY"


WATCH THE WHITE LIGHT !!!

 

[gambit]

Those bent on describing terrorists as Islamic usually don’t know anything about Islam.

Let us take a look at the Catholic nuns, shall we ?

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/2013/03/01/july-27-2012-vatican-nun-controversy/12066/

In the above source, we can see three generations of Catholic nuns, each is VISUALLY distinct from the others.

Vatican II nuns are not required to wear the all cover dress calls 'habit'. In fact, Vatican II nuns can be virtually indistinguishable from the general population.

Sister Mary Joseph Heisler of the Carmelite order...

Sister Maureen Fiedler...

Catholics do not insist non-Catholics and non-Christians know the differences. Catholics do not care if you know the differences or not. Good if you do. Irrelevant if you do not.

Those bent on calling all Christians as Catholics do not offends Catholics. And those bent on calling Catholics as Christians do not offends Christians.

Even if you cannot tell the differences between a Catholic priest, an Orthodox bishop, and a Buddhist monk, none of the three is going to get angry at you.

So why is it our burden to know anything about Islam ?

No one is saying that religious violence is unique to Islam. Christians are often quick on the draw to call out their bloody history to each other.

Books like this...


...Are aplenty in the Christian world.

So if we use the label 'Islamic terrorist', it is only because of the question: 'What else can it be ?'

The (presumably) Muslim who blew himself up in Manchester, how can we tell if he knows anything about Islam the way we can tell if a Catholic nun is pre-Vatican II or not ?

When a man yells 'Allahu Akbar', what is he trying to convey ? Yes, we know the phrase means 'God is Great'. But there is a greater point in him yelling that, he is saying -- I AM A MUSLIM. Just like if you see a man cross himself, he is saying I am a member of a unique sect of Christianity -- Catholicism. Or perhaps of the Orthodox Church because they cross themselves as well.

So just from on action -- crossing one's self -- you have deduce the man can come from only two sects of Christianity, either Catholicism or Orthodox.

If we see a man yells 'Allahu Akbar' before he beheads someone or detonate a vest bomb, what ELSE are we supposed to deduce the origin of his religious passion ? The message he is telling all of us is -- I am a Muslim and this will happen to you.

If he bows in prayer or gives out alms, he is also saying the same message -- I am a Muslim and this can happen to you.

But both actions says the same thing -- I am a Muslim.

So stop chastising us non-Muslims on how stupid we are in not knowing that the suicide bomber is not a Muslim. He IS a Muslim, whether you like it or not.

 

[RoadRunner401]

It is not our responsibility to figure out.


That is your responsibility to figure out.

You want me to figure out the actions of Monsters you created

you are just training them
you are arming them
you are bombing Syrian and Iranian forces fighting them
you are giving them medical support when they are injured

Why did Salman Abedi kill himself?

Why did he kill himself along with so many others?

How did he choose to die? What were his likely motivations?

You are claiming that every crime committed by some Hindu or Indian all over the world can be answered by you.

Plenty of normal Muslims believe in death for blasphemy, apostasy and adultery.
Atheists and others aren't allowed their due freedom in Islamic societies( to propagate or even just put forward their views).
You try to convert people and change the demographics of the societies you migrate to.
A true believer is just a step away from a terrorist.

I guess it's not the same as Hindu extremist killing people for eating cow meat as cow is sacred animal in Hindu religion

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Watch this, please.

 

[gambit]

Watch this, please.

At timestamps 6:18 to 6:21, Hasan ADMITTED that a minority of MUSLIMS took those violent verses out of 'that context'.

If any non-Muslim cherry-picked any Quran verses to criticize Islam as a 'violent religion', those non-Muslims were helped in the sense that the Muslims who committed violence 'in the name of Islam' FIRST cherry-picked those verses and justified their actions for themselves. After all, as Ms. Paradkar stated in post no. 1 that we do not know Islam in the first place. If we do not know Islam, we do not know the Quran, and if we do not know the Quran, then how can we now which context(s) is/are in which verse(s) ?

Like it or not, the actions of the few do have a disproportionate impact on CREATING an impression about anything. Mr. Hasan said that he is an 'ambassador' for Islam at timestamp 00:36 in May, 2013 in the UK. But for most Americans, Osama bin Laden was that 'ambassador' for Islam on Sept 11, 2001 in New York City. No Americans inserted any contexts into any Quranic verses for Osama bin Laden to cherry picked.

My argument still stands. The non-Muslims DO NOT have even an atomic mass of responsibility to know anything about Islam. Criticizing us about our ignorance of your religion is deflection from the serious problem that is in your community. If you deflect us, we will wonder if you are deliberately ignoring that serious problem for other reasons. And if our imagination begins to roam about those 'other reasons', there will be no peace in those cities.

 

[Avicenna]

agree, the discourse in western society/right wing media and talking heads lacks nuance for the most part.

virtually all the jihadi terror comes from wahabi/salafist/islamo-fascist/ultra religious arabs.

though sadly it does seem to be spreading to other regions of the world as well now, a large section of Pakistani society is firmly in it's grip, saudis are also building hundreds of mosques the world over, including in Bangladesh, all of which will spread their intolerant literalist and supremacist version of Islam.

and this aszhole trump is giving them almost 500 billion worth of weapons, not looking very good for the world.

Whose giving them anything you dolt. This isn't Israel we're talking about where the American taxpayer is GIVING them the kit. These idiot Saudis are BUYING the weapons. But it serves the Saudis right.

 

[Sliver]

Unless the problem is recognized we cannot solve it or even attempt to solve it.. No Matter whats said and done.. lets forget the media here for a second - the people blowing themselves up in the name of Islam are a reality. how do we tackle that in a way that it will not malign Muslims everywhere?

those guys call themselves muslims and created the "islamic state".. if you claim that these guys are not muslims and are maligning its name, then think about this - the prophet cartoons created much more ruckus than thousands of fighters maligning the name of Islam. when such disparity is visible, every Muslims will be seen as only supporting "their" guys and hence a separatist way of life.

 

[LURKER]

Islamic terrorist carry out violence in the name of Islam. They thereby are doing duty of Islam by waging jihad against infidels which is legitimate as per them and which will earn them jannat. There may be political motive initially but it is soon overcome by duty of Islam ie jihaad. Else how could one explain some random Briton or keralite ending up at Syria to fight for isis. They are motivated by islam. They fight for islam. They see islam in danger and hence the need to wage jihaad against infidels. They invoke Quranic verses which advocate killing infidels as legitimate and not many muslims would counter it as this will be considered blasphemy. They'd blame the isis for maligning islam but won't critisize verses which advocate death for apostasy as wrong.