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Legendary General Vo Nguyen Giap dies, aged 102

Why did you don't say same thing to Chinese member !? :rolleyes:
I said it many times, we remember your big and importance help, but ...... well, you know history .... :whistle:

Who's that one !? :what:

We should plus another one is Quang Trung Emperor, I think. :D
I give your country compatriot men credit for going toe to toe with us, unlike the Filipino who likes to kowtowing and asskissing others.

I offer your compatriot an opportunity to form a strategic and friendly alliance in the future with us if our two head leaders can shake hand, especially in the upcoming visit of Li Keqiang next week in Vietnam.
 
Clearly Mao (China) has supported vn's fight against U.S. all along. Where would there are ones who jump out either denying China's tremendous help over vn or saying China not helping vn against U.S.???
the root problem was the halfhearted help of China. Mao supported the status quo, favoring the Korean model, means a weak and divided Vietnam, with North Vietnam as a buffer. Only the Soviet Union provided all necessary arms to Vietnam, needed to win the war.

Following the Sino-Soviet split, Mao demanded Vietnam to cut relation with the Soviets, by which the North Vietnamese rejected. Soon after that, China stopped all supports to Vietnam.

The video below shows an interview with Pham, the former Prime Minister of North Vietnam. Pham revealed his anger over China, the country which satotaged the goal of Vietnam: re-unification. I don´t blame China. You do what you think of your interests, but don´t scold Vietnam if she does what she thinks of her core interests.


 
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the root problem was the halfhearted help of China. Mao supported the status quo, favoring the Korean model, means a weak and divided Vietnam, with North Vietnam as a buffer. Only the Soviet Union provided all necessary arms to Vietnam, needed to win the war.

Following the Sino-Soviet split, Mao demanded Vietnam to cut relation with the Soviets, by which the North Vietnamese rejected. Soon after that, China stopped all supports to Vietnam.

The video below shows an interview with Pham, the former Prime Minister of North Vietnam. Pham revealed his anger over China, the country which satotaged the goal of Vietnam: re-unification. I don´t blame China. You do what you think of your interests, but don´t scold Vietnam if she does what she thinks of her core interests.


Uh.. wrong my friend. The root problem was your Northern Vietnam Communist betraying Maoist's China, cuddle up with the Soviet, which led China a feeling of a brotherly comrade betrayal and weaken our support. Initially our support during the North Vietnam revolution was substantiated, unconditional support. In fact, we promised to Uncle Ho that if US would to invade North Vietnam, our troops would enter to defend. In this way, it allows North Vietnam a safe heaven and scare the American from engaging further invasion and bombardment up North.

Check this picture of our aid to you by years.

2d9vequ.jpg


You might want to read the history book again. I advise you read this why we limit our support.

http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Jian China Involvement Vietnam.pdf

Vietnam had always been on the wrong side of History in the 20th century and maybe 21st century too. In the 20th century, you should have choose the US over the French. Then during the Vietnam War, you should have choose China over the Soviet, then all current existing problems wouldn't exist. As a matter of fact, had you choose us over the Soviet, we would have provide defense weapons for you, instead now you are forced to buy Soviet weapon to defend the threat from us. Then during the Cambodia-Vietnam war, you should have listen to us and the US, instead choose the Soviet, which led to further economic sanction which brought your country back to another 20 years of underdevelopment. Now back to 21st century, you continue to pick the wrong side and choose a declining power like the US as your economic safe heaven and even trying to wishy washy siding between Soviet and the US for military support.

But luckily, you still have time to correct the mistake.
 
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State funeral to be held for General Giap

A State funeral will be held for General Vo Nguyen Giap, who passed away on October 4, according to an announcement of the Funeral Committee.

During the two-day funeral, from 12:00hr on October 11 to 12:00hr on October 13, all State offices and public facilities will fly the national flag at half-mast and all entertainment activities will be stopped.

Source: Vietnamplus
 
Uh.. wrong my friend. The root problem was your Northern Vietnam Communist betraying Maoist's China, cuddle up with the Soviet, which led China a feeling of a brotherly comrade betrayal and weaken our support. Initially our support during the North Vietnam revolution was substantiated, unconditional support. In fact, we promised to Uncle Ho that if US would to invade North Vietnam, our troops would enter to defend. In this way, it allows North Vietnam a safe heaven and scare the American from engaging further invasion and bombardment up North.

Check this picture of our aid to you by years.
has anybody of us denied that China´s help did not exist? a question: Could China provide North Vietnam at this time air defence equipments, similar to the Soviets MIG-jet fighters and anti aircraft missiles?
Vietnam had always been on the wrong side of History in the 20th century and maybe 21st century too. In the 20th century, you should have choose the US over the French.
The US backed the French. There was no choice for Vietnam. America hated communism.
Then during the Vietnam War, you should have choose China over the Soviet, then all current existing problems wouldn't exist. As a matter of fact, had you choose us over the Soviet, we would have provide defense weapons for you, instead now you are forced to buy Soviet weapon to defend the threat from us.
read my post earlier (#66). You pushed us into a corner. There was no much choice for us.
Then during the Cambodia-Vietnam war, you should have listen to us and the US, instead choose the Soviet, which led to further economic sanction which brought your country back to another 20 years of underdevelopment.
if the Khmer Rouge did not attack us over and over again, then we would probably haven´t started the invasion. That is true, what you said at the second part: the war against Cambodia and China did cost Vietnam another 20 years of economic development. The current weakness of Vietnam is partly due to the sad events.

All in all, the wars in the last century probably costs Vietnam 60 years of economic development, not to mention the cost of lives.
Now back to 21st century, you continue to pick the wrong side and choose a declining power like the US as your economic safe heaven and even trying to wishy washy siding between Soviet and the US for military support.

But luckily, you still have time to correct the mistake.
wait a moment, we are still a member of ASEAN, we maintain friendly relation with anybody, not against China. Unlike Japan and Philippines, we are NOT in any military alliances.
 
Rational Chinese like to bash people like you and there is a term call fen qing 愤青. People like you fake patriotism and have a lot of incomprehensible anger. But in the end got migrate to white man land. Within 50 years, you will see your daughters or sons screwing white people and have bastaard kids.

I really suspect where is your loyalty given that your future lies in the well being of white man. Yes I am not your tribe. I am doing my job as in all Chinese forum in vigilanting Chinese Nazi.

There are group of stupid idiots that likes to pretend they're rational, despite the fact they are ignorant. It's called 装B。Playing psychoanalysis online is the surest sign of this disease, and you are the embodiment of it. I suspect within 10 years you will be licking the boots of Malays once they put their boots on your neck. Feel free do keep your head in the sand.
 
State funeral to be held for General Giap

A State funeral will be held for General Vo Nguyen Giap, who passed away on October 4, according to an announcement of the Funeral Committee.

During the two-day funeral, from 12:00hr on October 11 to 12:00hr on October 13, all State offices and public facilities will fly the national flag at half-mast and all entertainment activities will be stopped.

Source: Vietnamplus

Wow. a great tribute to a great leader. I read up on Dien Bien phu and I never forget who is general Giap. He is a great Asian leader.
 
Wow. a great tribute to a great leader. I read up on Dien Bien phu and I never forget who is general Giap. He is a great Asian leader.
China supported VietNam in the battle of Dien Bien Phu, but if we kept on following China's tactic, we would lose that battle :coffee:
On 13 March, after they made the necessary adjustments, the Vietnamese launched their attack on Dien Bien Phu. The attack started a few minutes before dusk to give Viet-minh artillery crews time to register their targets appropriately and avoid exposing their positions long enough for French artillery and aircraft to locate them.42 The intensity of the shelling surprised and paralyzed the French, who lost two resistance centers (centres de resistance) in the first three days of fighting. The use of human wave attacks reminiscent of Chinese infantry charges in Korea characterized Vietnamese assaults on French positions during the early stages of the battle. The decision to resort to that tactic was influenced by two PLA generals advising the Vietnamese at Dien Bien Phu, Wei Guo-qing and Li Cheng-hu.43 Though effective, that approach was costly. Between 13 and 16 March, the Viet-minh suffered more than 9,000 casualties, including 2,000 dead.44

On 17 March, Giap modified his strategy to protract the hostilities and rely less on Chinese "expertise." "We estimated that in launching a swift attack," Giap wrote later, "we could not be certain of victory. . . . If we wanted a swift victory when our forces lacked experience in attacking remote outposts, success could not be absolutely guaranteed."45

The Vietnamese eventually ceased conducting human wave raids. Instead, they dug trenches and tunnels to get close to the enemy. 46 Though slower to pay dividends, Giap felt that protracted warfare guaranteed victory. "In striking surely and advancing cautiously," he wrote,

We could keep complete initiative, attack the enemy at any time and at any fronts as we liked; we would attack him only when we were sufficiently prepared and sure of victory, otherwise we would not attack or would delay the attack; we would defend only the positions which had to be defended and could be defended, otherwise we would not defend; after a battle, we would wage another one immediately if possible, otherwise we could take a rest to reorganize our forces and make better preparations for the next battle.47
New Perspectives on Dien Bien Phu
 
China supported VietNam in the battle of Dien Bien Phu, but if we kept on following China's tactic, we would lose that battle :coffee:
That belief is not new. It has been around since the battle itself. The Chinese generals who advised the Viet Minh knew only one tactic: the human wave. And there is nothing creative about it. But unfortunately, the same tactic was often used by the NVA and VC themselves during the Vietnam War.
 
All in all, the wars in the last century probably costs Vietnam 60 years of economic development, not to mention the cost of lives.
No. Communism caused that loss. The day the South Vietnamese government collapsed and the communist government took over, which literally included everything from resources to institutions, all blames rests solely on the possessor. Debt to foreigners often caused hardships. Communist take-overs often involved cancellation of foreign debts, for example. If a government can claim the right to take credit for successes under its rule, then it should have the honesty to concede to responsibility for failures as well.
 
China has supported vn for more than 20 years, you called that half-hearted support???

After China-soviet split, both vn and nk threw themselves into u.s.s.r. and disregard China, it is vn and nk who has betrayed China at first, not the other way around. China clearly told vn and nk to choose between China and ussr, and both of course chose ussr thinking they could get more stuff from it.

As a result of that, China stopped her support over vn. Well, history is always playing tricks. Now both beg China for help again.


the root problem was the halfhearted help of China. Mao supported the status quo, favoring the Korean model, means a weak and divided Vietnam, with North Vietnam as a buffer. Only the Soviet Union provided all necessary arms to Vietnam, needed to win the war.

Following the Sino-Soviet split, Mao demanded Vietnam to cut relation with the Soviets, by which the North Vietnamese rejected. Soon after that, China stopped all supports to Vietnam.

The video below shows an interview with Pham, the former Prime Minister of North Vietnam. Pham revealed his anger over China, the country which satotaged the goal of Vietnam: re-unification. I don´t blame China. You do what you think of your interests, but don´t scold Vietnam if she does what she thinks of her core interests.



The # of vn members can be counted here. I do think I need tell you whose are the ones, right?

Why did you don't say same thing to Chinese member !? :rolleyes:
I said it many times, we remember your big and importance help, but ...... well, you know history .... :whistle:

Who's that one !? :what:

We should plus another one is Quang Trung Emperor, I think. :D
 
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No. Communism caused that loss. The day the South Vietnamese government collapsed and the communist government took over, which literally included everything from resources to institutions, all blames rests solely on the possessor. Debt to foreigners often caused hardships. Communist take-overs often involved cancellation of foreign debts, for example. If a government can claim the right to take credit for successes under its rule, then it should have the honesty to concede to responsibility for failures as well.

In case of Ngo Dinh Diem could accepted proposal of Ho Chi Minh for general election in according Geneva accords, its should not been happent what was called "Vietnam war" and interference of foreigner super powers in cold war.

Not that Vo Nguyen Giap General and Ngo Dinh Diem PM of republic Of Vietnam came both from Quang Binh Province, home villages is seperatly by one river I don't know what the name of river. :coffee:
 
In current standard, Khmer Rouge is much more terrible than Syrian govt ( if once they use chemical weapon ),
could compete Hitler in humanity criminals, actually Khmer Rouge leaders brought to courthouse for that.

Khmer Rouge once was Communist, same as Hitler's, but time after time under Maoist affection, it turn to be a bad nut to be cleared.

Surprise, UN, UK, US, CN at that time, still officially support for its representative position in UN until 199x.

We never feel sorry to wipe out Khmer Rouge, CN, UN, UK, US, TH ... must to say sorry for your support of Khmer Rouge

Number of deaths

Modern research has located 20,000 mass graves from the Khmer Rouge era all over Cambodia. Various studies have estimated the death toll at between 740,000 and 3,000,000, most commonly between 1.4 million and 2.2 million, with perhaps half of those deaths being due to executions, and the rest from starvation and disease.[37]

The U.S. State Department-funded Yale Cambodian Genocide Project estimates approximately 1.7 million (21% of the population of the country).[38] R. J. Rummel, an analyst of historical political killings, gives a figure of 2 million.[39] A UN investigation reported 2–3 million dead, while UNICEF estimated that 3 million had been killed.[40] Demographic analysis by Patrick Heuveline suggests that between 1.17 and 3.42 million Cambodians were killed,[41] while Marek Sliwinski estimates that 1.8 million is a conservative figure.[19] Researcher Craig Etcheson of the Documentation Center of Cambodia suggests that the death toll was between 2 and 2.5 million, with a "most likely" figure of 2.2 million. After 5 years of researching grave sites, he concluded that "these mass graves contain the remains of 1,386,734 victims of execution".[37]
Fall
Main article: Cambodian–Vietnamese War
The Ba Chuc Massacre was one of the events that prompted the Vietnamese invasion of Kampuchea.

By December 1978, due to several years of border conflict and the flood of refugees fleeing Kampuchea, relations between Cambodia and Vietnam collapsed. Pol Pot, fearing a Vietnamese attack, ordered a pre-emptive invasion of Vietnam. His Cambodian forces crossed the border and looted nearby villages. Of the 3,157 civilians who had lived in Ba Chúc,[42] only two survived the massacre. These Cambodian forces were repelled by the Vietnamese.

Along with the Kampuchean United Front for National Salvation, an organization that included many dissatisfied former Khmer Rouge members,[43] the Vietnamese armed forces then invaded Cambodia, capturing Phnom Penh on January 7, 1979. Despite a traditional Cambodian fear of Vietnamese domination, defecting Khmer Rouge activists assisted the Vietnamese, and, with Vietnam's approval, became the core of the new People's Republic of Kampuchea, quickly dismissed by the Khmer Rouge and China as a "puppet government."

At the same time, the Khmer Rouge retreated west, and it continued to control certain areas near the Thai border for the next decade. These included Phnom Malai, the mountain areas near Pailin in the Cardamom Mountains and Anlong Veng in the Dângrêk Mountains.[44]

These Khmer Rouge bases were not self-sufficient and were funded by diamond and timber smuggling, by military assistance from China channeled by means of the Thai military, and by food from markets across the border in Thailand.[45]
Its place in the UN

Despite its deposal, the Khmer Rouge retained its UN seat, which was occupied by Thiounn Prasith, an old compatriot of Pol Pot and Ieng Sary from their student days in Paris, and one of the 21 attendees at the 1960 KPRP Second Congress. The seat was retained under the name "Democratic Kampuchea" until 1982, and then "Coalition Government of Democratic Kampuchea" (see below) until 1993. Western governments repeatedly backed the Khmer Rouge in the U.N. and voted in favour of retaining Cambodia's seat in the organization. Margaret Thatcher stated that "So, you'll find that the more reasonable ones of the Khmer Rouge will have to play some part in the future government, but only a minority part. I share your utter horror that these terrible things went on in Kampuchea."[46] Sweden on the contrary changed its vote in the U.N. and withdrew support for the Khmer Rouge after a large number of Swedish citizens wrote letters to their elected representatives demanding a policy change towards Pol Pot's regime.[47]
 

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