Left historians prevented resolution of Babri Masjid

[scorpionx]

I think the court's issue of briefings answers these questions...
https://web.archive.org/web/20101010145054/http://www.allahabadhighcourt.in/gist3.pdf


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@Rajaraja Chola @nair @Sr Nair

If you find no wrong in the judgement, it's fine. I request please lets get out of this circular argument. Its frustrating for me.

 

[ranjeet]

The point of contention was not in the existence of a temple beneath the mosque but on two points, whether it was destructed forcibly and whether the temple was the actual birth place of Rama. If both answers are negative, then perhaps Sangh can see justification by this verdict in the ravaging of ancient structures by IS in Middle East too.

Destructed forcibly? Nah, Mosques just grow over mandirs organically.
Sangh and IS analogy is off the mark here, maybe leftists feel unlucky that they won't be able to give a spin to the how and what led ISIS to destroy ancient structures or important places of worship of others. If you don't have a job to finish kindly do look at the difference between Reclaiming and Destroying before drawing self pleasuring comparison between Sangh and IS.

 

[dray]

The point of contention was not in the existence of a temple beneath the mosque but on two points, whether it was destructed forcibly and whether the temple was the actual birth place of Rama. If both answers are negative, then perhaps Sangh can see justification by this verdict in the ravaging of ancient structures by IS in Middle East too.

If the point of contention was not in the existence of a temple beneath the mosque, then whether it was destructed forcibly cannot be a point of contention too, in what other ways can there be a mosque over the ruins of a temple? Destroying temples and building mosques over them was not unusual in those days. And the birth place of Ram is a matter of faith as we have no sure way to prove with 100% certainty whether Ram was a historical character or a mythological character, it's like proving the existence of god with 100% certainty.

The only point of contention and debate can be about whether it is right or desirable to attempt to reset history by building temples (or three specific temples) now by destroying mosques that were built by destroying those temples in the past.

 

[scorpionx]

If the point of contention was not in the existence of a temple beneath the mosque, then whether it was destructed forcibly cannot be a point of contention too, in what other ways can there be a mosque over the ruins of a temple? Destroying temples and building mosques over them was not unusual in those days. And the birth place of Ram is a matter of faith as we have no sure way to prove with 100% certainty whether Ram was a historical character or a mythological character, it's like proving the existence of god with 100% certainty.

The only point of contention and debate can be about whether it is right or desirable to attempt to reset history by building temples (or three specific temples) now by destroying mosques that were built by destroying those temples in the past.

In a country that long prided itself for its traditional commitment to pluralism and religious tolerance, if all discussions ceased to exist only in the narrow lanes of religious parochialism and debate whether or not we should retain the Islamic mausoleums and monuments built on pre-Islamic structures then it is an withdrawal from its own founding principles based upon rationality and liberalism. I am quite disappointed that the very notion championed by hardcore bigots that a pre-Islamic monument built on a Hindu or Buddhist temple must have to be built by the fear of sword has become so alluring to most that they are conveniently ignoring that contemporary sources primarily Baburnama or Tulsidas (who lived quite close to Ayodhya) do not mention of any such forcible destruction of temple.

The other possibilities like Babri as a renovation of a mosque on a debris of Hindu/Buddhist temple (may be by force or may not be) built during the Turco-Afghan rule or as a mosque built completely on an already ruined structure get completely outdated or negligible. Very few are tolerant to the historical fact that Nirmohi Akharha, the militant outfit only claimed Ram Chabutra area as the exact birth place of Rama and not the main mosque premise and it was only from the surreptitious violation of the sanctity of the mosque in a newly born country that hardly knew (and still struggling) how to preserve the binding principles of its national philosophy with iron hand the ‘ticking of the bomb’ started.

It is in fact shame and hypocrisy that majority Hindus now are falling into the ranks of bigots who believe it is essential to undo a ‘wrong’ with another and destroy Islamic heritages of India to restore its ancient values while boasting in front of the world to be the world’s largest democracy and melting pot of ethnics, cultures and religions. Perhaps we can next debate whether Kutub Minar and Taj Mahal should also be demolished too!! What an improvement my friend!!

 

[Levina]

Baburnama or Tulsidas (who lived quite close to Ayodhya) do not mention of any such forcible destruction of temple.

Baburnama has many exaggerations and omissions.

 

[scorpionx]

Baburnama has many exaggerations and omissions.

Like?

 

[Levina]

Like?

they are conveniently ignoring that contemporary sources primarily Baburnama or Tulsidas (who lived quite close to Ayodhya) do not mention of any such forcible destruction of temple.

 

[scorpionx]

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Hence proved that Babur destroyed Ram temple. BTW what is the source?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Hence proved that Babur destroyed Ram temple.

Yes.

And the likes you continued the destruction over and over again in your literary discourse.

In a country that long prided itself for its traditional commitment to pluralism and religious tolerance

Commitment to pluralism and religious tolerance?
LOL. India is THE country that saw the WORST massacres in the name of RELIGION in HISTORY. No other country witnessed slaughters in the name of God - WITHOUT the involvement of the Government!!!

There is no such commitment to tolerance. This has been a regular country and it has reacted with whatever force it had the power for.

Most of the hindu site have a mosque nearby... and hindus are tolerating it for centuries.... if this is nt tolerance then i don't know what is... still intolerance in india is rising at alarming rate.... ...

Wrong. Many older mosques beside temples have a different story. During the Islamic rule, the older temples on their original sites were torn down with great pomp and Mosques built on them. During the Maratha rule or under patronage of some other Hindu Raja etc temples were built in close proximity without tearing down the mosque so that the original position of the temple can be restored TO SOME EXTENT. Kashi Vishwanath, Mathura all have this same history.

 

[scorpionx]

Commitment to pluralism and religious tolerance?
LOL. India is THE country that saw the WORST massacres in the name of RELIGION in HISTORY. No other country witnessed slaughters in the name of God - WITHOUT the involvement of the Government!!!

There is no such commitment to tolerance. This has been a regular country and it has reacted with whatever force it had the power for.

This is YOUR opinion but commitment to pluralism and religious tolerance were the two founding stone of Indian national philosophy that mobilized and united billions Indians under one flag.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

melting pot of ethnics, cultures and religions. Perhaps we can next debate whether Kutub Minar and Taj Mahal should also be demolished too!! What an improvement my friend!!

We became a melting pot of ethnics by accident. We welcome it - except for the signs of overt Islamic imperialism. You can write op-eds to register your protest. You have the right to do that. That is where democracy comes in. Convenient na?

Kutb Minar will ideally be made into a museum of Attack on Hindu Civilization - a case taught in schools. There will be field trips. Taj Mahal will stay because it brings in a lot of moolah and no Hindu/Boudh building was torn down for the purpose.

 

[scorpionx]

no Hindu/Boudh building was torn down for the purpose.

Oh!! You missed OP it seems. Please read it and destroy Taj too.

 

[Levina]

Hence proved that Babur destroyed Ram temple. BTW what is the source?

I have not read Baburnama...i heard it has about 300,000 words. Have you read it?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

This is YOUR opinion but commitment to pluralism and religious tolerance were the two founding stone of Indian national philosophy that mobilized and united billions Indians under one flag.

Fiction.

There is no Indian national philosophy. There was nothing of that sort during the Independence struggle. There is nothing now. It is natural. India is a mix. Not a single entity. There was a Gandhian philosophy. A Nehruvian philosophy. A Mahalnobis one etc etc.

 

[scorpionx]

I have not read Baburnama...i heard it has about 300,000 words. Have you read it?

Yes.

Fiction.

There is no Indian national philosophy. There was nothing of that sort during the Independence struggle. There is nothing now. It is natural. India is a mix. Not a single entity. There was a Gandhian philosophy. A Nehruvian philosophy. A Mahalnobis one etc etc.

Ok. I found a new one today. Sarthakian philosophy.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Oh!! You missed OP it seems. Please read it and destroy Taj too.

Request rejected. I will milk Taj instead. I am not an Islamic imperialist. Sorry about that. It will stay. In any case it never replaced any of the holiest of the Dharmic shrines. Had it been the birthplace of Guru Teghbahadur Singh/Gautam Buddh/etc - sure. But not otherwise.