Lapses in security,a study after jail break

[BATMAN]

Keep the fil-thy politics away. The problem was in co-ordination and co-operation, and effective response. Even if it was Nawaz or Fazalur Rehman, or Altaf or Zardari, result would have been same. Musharraf's government could have a different approach not because of politics, but because he was a good soldier (wouldn't say excellent).

Intelligence agencies only pass the lead this is all the communication you can have from them... rest is not their job.
Army or XYZ will only co-operate when they are asked for it.
AFAIK, army even asked voluntarily if help is required or not... but the KPK govt. (read PTI) is bunch of army haters.. they found it insulting to ask army for help.
Whereas, we all must keep clear one thing in mind.. job of army is not protecting jails of NWFP.

 

[BATMAN]

I state in simple words... privatize police!
Make some guide line regulations.. like only retired soldiers can join as police.
Keep the service age of soldiers 40-45 years and push them to police dpt. post them in their respective regions.
Stop paying taxes to govt. on individual basis, but collect it on union council level and and pay run your affairs independently, pay your expenses, and pass a fixed 5% to federal govt. for actually doing nothing.

 

[Secur]

@Leader @Jazzbot @balixd @Last Hope @rescue ranger @Awesome @WebMaster @Secur and others..your analysis and further addition is appreciated...

Bravo , mate . An excellent effort , I would say . I am quite happy at the tremendous increase in the quality of your posts and critical thinking on various matter related to the pressing problems , that Pakistan faces today .

I would have added more on the psychology , knowing my interest . Talked a little more on the ' confused as a nation ' thing , where do our allegiances lie , do we have doubts on who's right , do we have a soft corner for Islamists , what do we think about the war of terror and so forth and importantly how do these thoughts affect our performance in the battlefield - what if thats the thing resulting in a little lenience for the terrorists ?

 

[Amaa'n]

@Slav Defence - excellent effort bro, good one, but no credit to me in first post ....nah just kidding .
Back on topic, I will say again and as Secur has said above , you need to speak about psychological / mental fitness of a Police personnel, whether he in his right mind has any confusion about shooting the bad guy or not?
You spoke about training and weapons- that is fine BUT as I have said end of the day it is the mind which has to pull that finger

What is the Difference between a Solider & a Police Constable? both are young, both of them are Matric pass- cleared the entry test for respective institutes, both of them had weapons training, so why is it that a Solider will pull that trigger quicker than a Police Constable?
Solution:
- the leadership has to play a role here, they need to recognize the Psychological issue within the force / personnel. And make it clear to them that the person coming through that door is a bad guy, and they must shoot him.

- Conducting in-house trainings / examinations - not physical BUT mental exercises, which test the mental aptitude. The reason am calling for in-house trainings is cost effectiveness.

- Another fore-most important thing is to recognise that Police is not the Fighting force BUT the Policing Force.
There job is not to fight the Terrorists BUT hold the defence until the ATS / Elite arrives.

DO NOT EXPECT police Personnel to storm the building to fight the terrorists And you make it clear to them.

 

[Amaa'n]

We can all agree that current system is similar to as shown:

Any intercept would then be immediately acted upon, depending upon what it is. If Police have the caliber to handle it, it is their task, if a joint-force is needed, then they (the Army and Police) should be given their respected duties, objectives and tactical plans in the least of time. Army and FC/Rangers QRF should work directly for the Task Force.

----

This will work fine for short time, but is not the long-time solution. This will enhance the communication and cooperation between the military and civil forces, and keep everyone on their feet.

Sir, It is good that you have recognise that this Solution will only work for a shorter period, because the way I see it it will create problem.
Rather than doing any good it will promote the organizational rift, why I say that? because you will see CSPs pissed about how CSPs from Army took 2-3 seats from Civil quota. It will also become matter of Jurisdiction, and rather than improving the standard of Police it will infact degrade them more- as they will know at the back of their minds that Army is there to back them up.
be it a day or a year.
You want a Task Force?
Provincial Govt should request for Para Military force- as than it will be under them rather MoI. You form a task force of Para Military ( F.Const, F.Corps) & Police in defending / Policing matters.

 

[Last Hope]

Sir, It is good that you have recognise that this Solution will only work for a shorter period, because the way I see it it will create problem.
Rather than doing any good it will promote the organizational rift, why I say that? because you will see CSPs pissed about how CSPs from Army took 2-3 seats from Civil quota. It will also become matter of Jurisdiction, and rather than improving the standard of Police it will infact degrade them more- as they will know at the back of their minds that Army is there to back them up.
be it a day or a year.
You want a Task Force?
Provincial Govt should request for Para Military force- as than it will be under them rather MoI. You form a task force of Para Military ( F.Const, F.Corps) & Police in defending / Policing matters.

Yes you're right, there would be more setbacks to it.
For this, I have a solution. The Task Force would be effective only on basis of Intelligence. They wouldn't alter the daily routine of any of the two forces, but force them to act upon intercepts. You cannot give Army the role to bust intercepts for a famous local gang to hit the bank, and you apparently cannot give the intercepts to police to stop a group over 100 fighters attacking a jail.

 

[Amaa'n]

Yes you're right, there would be more setbacks to it.
For this, I have a solution. The Task Force would be effective only on basis of Intelligence. They wouldn't alter the daily routine of any of the two forces, but force them to act upon intercepts. You cannot give Army the role to bust intercepts for a famous local gang to hit the bank, and you apparently cannot give the intercepts to police to stop a group over 100 fighters attacking a jail.

oh, I got your point now.

 

[Slav Defence]

Keep the fil-thy politics away. The problem was in co-ordination and co-operation, and effective response. Even if it was Nawaz or Fazalur Rehman, or Altaf or Zardari, result would have been same. Musharraf's government could have a different approach not because of politics, but because he was a good soldier (wouldn't say excellent).

Very well said,in fact we can expect lapse and trust deficiency and greater repulsion more, when worse opposing parties are elected to form single democratic Provincial and federal government,for their interests and objectives totally oppose to each other,therefore the coordination and co-operation can't be developed as required to run successful government,therefore...

We have just diagnosed another reason of trust deficiency.


To overcome such problem,I suggest that ECP and elected parties must make a new policy for elections.

--The ECP must consist of members of non-political background,ie members from judiciary are selected must be neutral,un like Mr.Fakharuddin,who appeared as pro-pml-n

--Before letting a candidate to take part in elections,his past,his background,his overall reputation must be checked.

--Parties must nominate such candidates who are observed as less hostile to opponent parties,of good reputation.

--After elections and formation of new government,an all parties meeting of elected bodies must be held,which has following key objectives:


i)Misunderstandings must be cleared

ii)They must discuss their current status with each other,and must debate on future coordination

iii)They must discuss their mandate and objectives with each other,especially the provincial with federal government and vice versa so that lapses of trust deficiency can be diagnosed and resolved.

This meeting and committee I have suggested earlier are two different dimensions.

Bravo , mate . An excellent effort , I would say . I am quite happy at the tremendous increase in the quality of your posts and critical thinking on various matter related to the pressing problems , that Pakistan faces today .

I would have added more on the psychology , knowing my interest . Talked a little more on the ' confused as a nation ' thing , where do our allegiances lie , do we have doubts on who's right , do we have a soft corner for Islamists , what do we think about the war of terror and so forth and importantly how do these thoughts affect our performance in the battlefield - what if thats the thing resulting in a little lenience for the terrorists ?

Just few days before,I have discussed same issue with last hope,in which I have specifically highlighted that how TTP spreads it's tentacles and is poisoning the mind of our public,how are they targeting and sabotaging and how we should counter response:

That is why I always raise my voice against THIS corrupted version of Islam,which is introduced by hypocrites,extremists.
My brother,organizations and mindsets such as TTP are not resulted at once,and NOT due to few problems only,a lot problems are inter-related to each other,due to which we are facing such monstrous organization,and let us face it,we have created this monster.
My,brother,before suggesting solution,I must recall/highlight the inter related problems again due to which we are dealing such mindset:

--Lack of proper education.
--Unequal distribution of quality of education,ie
>Poor class studies in government schools with low quality education
>Upper class in Cambridge/O-levels,matriculation in institutions of good reputations
>Middle class in average institutions

--Promotion of extremism,promotion of false conception about Islam by hypocrites.
--Security lapses,ie foreign sources funding masterminds to increase the rate of extremism,various foreign think-tanks of opposing intelligence agencies working on empowering such mindsets by funding etc
--No proper policy by government of Pakistan to stop such mindsets and people

If such problems are solved in very first step,then we can handle situation,but we don't seek solution as a result of which they malign us.

Here are few solutions are suggested:

As we all have analysed that how our ignorance at small level can help us to grow such monster till the big ones,therefore we must take every slightest problem to bigger one seriously,here are solutions:

--Goverment must work hard to balance the quality of education,equal,high quality education must be provided to all classes of a country,from minister's son to that of labours'
--Law and enforcement agencies must make strict,clear policy about those mindsets who are working on sabotaging the country's assets(that is man power ie civilians)in such a way that those hands who are responsible to nourish them,funding them must be treated in strict manner,for this civil sectors of government must support the security sectors.
--The elected authorities of a specific party of different sectors of city (ie Gulshan,defence,maymar,jauher,Mehmoodabad etc) must create committees who are responsible to check their 'imams' local mosques:
>Their eligibility
>Their reputation
>Their mentality

--Only muftis are allowed to take charge of mosques rather then anonymous so called labelled mullas
--Civil government must support agencies by providing them proper technology and better arms and ammunition.

Best Regards,
Slav defence

 

[Last Hope]

What you said isn't possible, this is why it is known as politics. If done, right after elections everything is going to change back to serving the party first and taking rival parties as arch enemies.

 

[Slav Defence]

@Slav Defence - excellent effort bro, good one, but no credit to me in first post ....nah just kidding .
Back on topic, I will say again and as Secur has said above , you need to speak about psychological / mental fitness of a Police personnel, whether he in his right mind has any confusion about shooting the bad guy or not?
You spoke about training and weapons- that is fine BUT as I have said end of the day it is the mind which has to pull that finger

What is the Difference between a Solider & a Police Constable? both are young, both of them are Matric pass- cleared the entry test for respective institutes, both of them had weapons training, so why is it that a Solider will pull that trigger quicker than a Police Constable?
Solution:
- the leadership has to play a role here, they need to recognize the Psychological issue within the force / personnel. And make it clear to them that the person coming through that door is a bad guy, and they must shoot him.

- Conducting in-house trainings / examinations - not physical BUT mental exercises, which test the mental aptitude. The reason am calling for in-house trainings is cost effectiveness.

- Another fore-most important thing is to recognise that Police is not the Fighting force BUT the Policing Force.
There job is not to fight the Terrorists BUT hold the defence until the ATS / Elite arrives.

DO NOT EXPECT police Personnel to storm the building to fight the terrorists And you make it clear to them.

Balixd meray bhai...first of all,I haven't still implemented your given points,This report is a response to @Major Sam's news and @Xeric's jail breakout reports,where as far as your points are concerned I will make a different report on it,as your points are related to general technical lapses of our main security sector,and I assure you that you that I will mention that 'this is response to balixd post' my dear brother,I am not Zardari,trust me.. jk jk

Second,I have given you the reference of police magazine,that How powerful countries are working on strengthening their civil,police sectors,unlike us,who are instead of updating,advancing police and taking necessary permanent steps are avoiding actual solutions....( in my actual post.)
Where us our government as usual,looking for short cuts,tell me honestly,do you think that hiring of paramilitary,and task force is a permanent solution?
Definitely a clever,mature member like you will say 'NO' aloud,(you have already said it )so I strongly persist that we must take necessary steps to update our civil security sector ie police on new,updated foreign syllabus,which I have highlighted in my original post and rest permanent solutions as well..

 

[Slav Defence]

What you said isn't possible, this is why it is known as politics. If done, right after elections everything is going to change back to serving the party first and taking rival parties as arch enemies.

Well said sir,but When did I day that this will reduce lapses 100%?but they may be reduced to some extent...and it is not impossible to implement,even if 30% of plan can be implemented then we can observe some improvement,where as there is no plan on earth which can be implemented 100%.
and how?it will change back to serving parties first?

 

[Last Hope]

DG Rangers blast police during Karachi briefing to PM - DAWN.COM

Briefing Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on prevailing law and order situation in Karachi, Director General of Sindh Rangers, Maj-Gen Rizwan Akhtar Tuesday came hard on police saying the law enforcement force cannot be trusted with intelligence sharing, sources told Dawn.com.

This sums up very well about the co-ordination between Army and Police. Another reason to set up the Task Force I suggested.