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L&T's FICV Concept

Water Car Engineer

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Same facility that produces the K9 Thunder. First major private sector armour manufacturing, testing facility.

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Could be leveraging the partnership with the Koreans, not sure yet.
 
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The first pic is a Mahindra concept for the FICV.
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More than one TATA branch undertaking the program. That's TATA SED.

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TATA Motors

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TATA SED

The TATA SED version looks more like a BMP analogue, whereas the TATA Motors version looks completely different, maybe even more like a western platform.
 
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It seems bureaucracy is the biggest enemy of Indian state! India somehow mysteriously fails to leverage a vibrant private sector in projects such as these. India has giants like TATA, Mahindra, L&T, AL, Bharat Forge to name a few that can very well design full fledged armored vehicles. However year after year, Indian MoD just sits on the proposals and mediocre PSUs are promoted. I am pretty sure if Pakistan had even half the strength of our private sector giants like TATA or Mahindra, their military would have gotten not only a much higher indigenization content in their weapons but a lot of weapons for which the Pakistani military have to go to companies like Denel or Europe could have been designed in house. And here in India we have so many giants, yet we time and again do not leverage their expertise. What a shame!
@Nilgiri
@Signalian
 
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I have the pictures and videos of these gun mounted Howitzers when they were dispatched from L & T Plant.
 
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It seems bureaucracy is the biggest enemy of Indian state! India somehow mysteriously fails to leverage a vibrant private sector in projects such as these. India has giants like TATA, Mahindra, L&T, AL, Bharat Forge to name a few that can very well design full fledged armored vehicles. However year after year, Indian MoD just sits on the proposals and mediocre PSUs are promoted. I am pretty sure if Pakistan had even half the strength of our private sector giants like TATA or Mahindra, their military would have gotten not only a much higher indigenization content in their weapons but a lot of weapons for which the Pakistani military have to go to companies like Denel or Europe could have been designed in house. And here in India we have so many giants, yet we time and again do not leverage their expertise. What a shame!
@Nilgiri
@Signalian


Yup, this particular program - FICV - should have been finalized and ready 4 years ago, all the players are ready to compete. BMP replacement is no joke, it'll basically set them in place as a big armour producer in not just India, but the world, but the gov is taking too long to finalize the requirements. The user too get in the way in some of these programs as well.

Whatever the case, private sector domination in aero and defence is an eventuality, because they will force the change to their favor, whether through good or bad methods. Even though their motive is pure profit, selfishness they will improve the efficiency and lethality of the Indian armed forces. Indian defence manufacturing cannot be controlled by one gov company in each domain.
 
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It seems bureaucracy is the biggest enemy of Indian state! India somehow mysteriously fails to leverage a vibrant private sector in projects such as these. India has giants like TATA, Mahindra, L&T, AL, Bharat Forge to name a few that can very well design full fledged armored vehicles. However year after year, Indian MoD just sits on the proposals and mediocre PSUs are promoted. I am pretty sure if Pakistan had even half the strength of our private sector giants like TATA or Mahindra, their military would have gotten not only a much higher indigenization content in their weapons but a lot of weapons for which the Pakistani military have to go to companies like Denel or Europe could have been designed in house. And here in India we have so many giants, yet we time and again do not leverage their expertise. What a shame!
@Nilgiri
@Signalian

India has long way to go in indoctrinating a culture of meritocracy...esp in its federal govt...(and large number of state govts too).

Private forces have to do so or perish (more generally) given the degree of free market/competition (and thank you god for letting that at least arrive on Indian shores again in the early 90s..as late as that was, better than never).

But there is no such intrinsic whip available to discpline and re-gear the fat flabby largesse of babudom in India. They stay pretty much the same like a rank foul smell (Esp in things like defence where contact lists, nepotism and insulation become even more acceptable past the norm) whoever the people elect over them....because it all comes down to who you know rather than what you know.

Things are changing somewhat now compared to before (often propelled by the sheer disparity in resource efficiency/intensity in whatever sector that is apparent between us and adversaries/competitors)...but the road is long.

The good news is the size of India affords a good mix to come up with results at the state level and we are seeing some real champs there (even in govt performance)...the key is to have it permeate it back into the largest population states....most of them are lagging bad. Only then do the best policies (and how best to get discipline at lower levels of bureaucracy where things are actually delivered) get the required bulk to form good federal power dispensations/coalitions long term.

@GeraltofRivia @Joe Shearer @VCheng @Vibrio @M. Sarmad @saiyan0321 @jbgt90 @scorpionx @MilSpec
 
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India has long way to go in indoctrinating a culture of meritocracy...esp in its federal govt...(and large number of state govts too).

Private forces have to do so or perish (more generally) given the degree of free market/competition (and thank you god for letting that at least arrive on Indian shores again in the early 90s..as late as that was, better than never).

But there is no such intrinsic whip available to discpline and re-gear the fat flabby largesse of babudom in India. They stay pretty much the same like a rank foul smell (Esp in things like defence where contact lists, nepotism and insulation become even more acceptable past the norm) whoever the people elect over them....because it all comes down to who you know rather than what you know.

Things are changing somewhat now compared to before (often propelled by the sheer disparity in resource efficiency/intensity in whatever sector that is apparent between us and adversaries/competitors)...but the road is long.

The good news is the size of India affords a good mix to come up with results at the state level and we are seeing some real champs there (even in govt performance)...the key is to have it permeate it back into the largest population states....most of them are lagging bad. Only then do the best policies (and how best to get discipline at lower levels of bureaucracy where things are actually delivered) get the required bulk to form good federal power dispensations/coalitions long term.

@GeraltofRivia @Joe Shearer @VCheng @Vibrio @M. Sarmad @saiyan0321 @jbgt90 @scorpionx @MilSpec

Have you heard of a man called L. K. Jha?
 
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Yes. Got a story/anecdote for me?

You see, what many of us have forgotten is what living in a closed economy was like. When we were learning our trade, as managers, that ultimately meant people management, although I was supercilious and condescending about it when I encountered it in Ramesh Bhasin and his type. On the systems side, we had IBM 1401s, the last of which, at Hyderabad Asbestos that later became Hyderabad Industries, improved its main memory through titanic R&D efforts by Armonk to 16 kB (yes, Victoria, kB). They used paging to get anything done. They also fooled a batch computer into thinking it was doing batch jobs by using CICS, something that only the IBM people understood. Those were water-cooled machines, and the water was imported (from a purification plant in Australia). We also had Unit Record Machines, with a priestly hierarchy presiding over the Computer Room. Even management could only go in there with permission in triplicate, and the people inside had the breezy informality and casual attitude towards hierarchy that only elite formations possess.

That is when L. K. Jha broke open Indian industry.

Next installment follows.
 
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India has long way to go in indoctrinating a culture of meritocracy...esp in its federal govt...(and large number of state govts too).

Private forces have to do so or perish (more generally) given the degree of free market/competition (and thank you god for letting that at least arrive on Indian shores again in the early 90s..as late as that was, better than never).

But there is no such intrinsic whip available to discpline and re-gear the fat flabby largesse of babudom in India. They stay pretty much the same like a rank foul smell (Esp in things like defence where contact lists, nepotism and insulation become even more acceptable past the norm) whoever the people elect over them....because it all comes down to who you know rather than what you know.

Things are changing somewhat now compared to before (often propelled by the sheer disparity in resource efficiency/intensity in whatever sector that is apparent between us and adversaries/competitors)...but the road is long.

The good news is the size of India affords a good mix to come up with results at the state level and we are seeing some real champs there (even in govt performance)...the key is to have it permeate it back into the largest population states....most of them are lagging bad. Only then do the best policies (and how best to get discipline at lower levels of bureaucracy where things are actually delivered) get the required bulk to form good federal power dispensations/coalitions long term.
@GeraltofRivia @Joe Shearer @VCheng @Vibrio @M. Sarmad @saiyan0321 @jbgt90 @scorpionx @MilSpec

Hi @Nilgiri
My point was pretty simple and that if we did not have the kind of private giants we have, then the situation would be something else. However we repeatedly failing to fully leverage the capabilities of our private sector is the main concern here.
 
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