What's new

KSE ranks third in world, 1st in Asia among top markets in 2014

Another one of my prediction from last year onwards became true. For those of you who read up on my posts when you are bored, November of 2016 and January of 2017 will be interesting to watch. There will be a lot of progress coming out by January 2017, from that month onwards, Pakistan's economy will be taking a vertical climb, within year after that, it'll leave many economies behind. It should seize the 15th spot by 2022 - 2025 (estimated, may happen sooner if no political drama and terrorism is taking place). Good luck to Pakistanis. Just stick to each other like a team and a nation, let go of your political differences, unless its a friendly debate and support the system. The system is working very well to support its people, just in a matter of 3 years. Pakistan's face will be changing from a terrorism plagues country to one of the top future economies!
Why is it so that after having surpassed 31000 level and being the 3rd in world inreturn then even your uunemployment level is not decreasing, any tangible investment and s not being made?
What are your insights in this?
 
Good and positive indicator for our economy but we also need some serious reforms in our taxation and privatization sectors.
 
I agree with your predictions and your optimism. Government has been working hard on economic front and we can see that international investors responded with extra ordinary zeal to bonds and to KSE. And all this is despite the crippling energy shortage and terrorism situation.

One thing that bothers me is that PMLN is not committed to tax reform. All of this investment is temporary and can fly out as quickly as it came in as soon as we hit the next snag, unless solid structural reforms are done
.

So first, you "praise" the government (which is PMLN essentially) and then you bring out the worse by putting PMLN under the gun by showing complicity and not doing Tax reforms. By now, I've figured out how you guys work.

Have you noticed, the Pakistanis are never happy? Unless its their own guy in power, destroying the country into pieces and that's OK. But others actually WORKING will JUST be criticized for no good reason.

The 70 years of backwards movement for an entire country (Pakistan), wasn't caused by the PMLN. Nor should you expect them to have magic by which they'll fix everything immediately. It'll be worse if the people had picked anyone else in the last elections.

The current focus is to grow the economy. This is outside of dealing with terrorism, dealing with political instability and violence (IK's "movement to get power"), dealing with such a bad economy, losses, internal corruption, external bad reputation as a country, etc, etc. So as you can see, these guys are dealing with a tremendous amounts of issues. But yet, they are STILL moving forward with progress. So let the progress continue and the economy go beyond where it's been stuck for years, let jobs be created, industry start to run again and all. The Tax reforms will come too. No country can survive without Tax reforms.
The entire Pakistani system is broken for 70 years. Expecting just ONE good term / government for 5 years to fix all evil is unrealistic and silly. Specially, the political foes aren't letting them work. Instead there is leg pulling that happens with everything.

Last but not least. The investments don't "just as easily" disappear. You should read International Business and the Law to understand how it works. Its much easier to be an internet warrior and accuse others. Its much different to show others through your post that you have a command on the complex issue you are addressing!

Why is it so that after having surpassed 31000 level and being the 3rd in world inreturn then even your uunemployment level is not decreasing, any tangible investment and s not being made?
What are your insights in this?

Please re-explain the bold and I'll answer it once your question is clear to me. I am not sure if I understand what the 31000 level or 3rd in world actually mean...

What's so special about nov 2016 and jan 2017?

Starting the end of 2016 is when majority of the electric production projects which were started by the current government, come online. Its also when a few main projects around the Chinese route come online. So people will start to see a huge reduction in your import bill, which will strengthen the budget and will reduce the fiscal gap, in turn helping the savings account. A few million new jobs, from a basic construction worker to engineers, doctors and all will be created along the trade route. New real estate projects will begin to build housing around the trade route.

Next, starting January, some trade with the Chinese will start by road through Gawader. Plus some with the Central Russian / Russia itself. That should bring more stability and then shortly after the start, more projects will start, more infrastructure will be built and more investments will follow.
 
So first, you "praise" the government (which is PMLN essentially) and then you bring out the worse by putting PMLN under the gun by showing complicity and not doing Tax reforms. By now, I've figured out how you guys work.

Have you noticed, the Pakistanis are never happy? Unless its their own guy in power, destroying the country into pieces and that's OK. But others actually WORKING will JUST be criticized for no good reason.

The 70 years of backwards movement for an entire country (Pakistan), wasn't caused by the PMLN. Nor should you expect them to have magic by which they'll fix everything immediately. It'll be worse if the people had picked anyone else in the last elections.

The current focus is to grow the economy. This is outside of dealing with terrorism, dealing with political instability and violence (IK's "movement to get power"), dealing with such a bad economy, losses, internal corruption, external bad reputation as a country, etc, etc. So as you can see, these guys are dealing with a tremendous amounts of issues. But yet, they are STILL moving forward with progress. So let the progress continue and the economy go beyond where it's been stuck for years, let jobs be created, industry start to run again and all. The Tax reforms will come too. No country can survive without Tax reforms.
The entire Pakistani system is broken for 70 years. Expecting just ONE good term / government for 5 years to fix all evil is unrealistic and silly. Specially, the political foes aren't letting them work. Instead there is leg pulling that happens with everything.

Last but not least. The investments don't "just as easily" disappear. You should read International Business and the Law to understand how it works. Its much easier to be an internet warrior and accuse others. Its much different to show others through your post that you have a command on the complex issue you are addressing!


Relax my friend and stop patronizing members on this forum. I praised the Government where it was due and I criticized where I felt its right. Its my right to do so, as much as you have a right to be optimistic.

I was talking about this

July-Dec collection falls short by Rs126bn - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

"Pakistanis are never happy" and "broken since '47" etc. You are right in a sense that Pakistanis like to complain. But there is a difference between positive and negative criticism. And when I said "these investments can disappear", I meant that these are portfolio investments in stocks (this thread). These are not "brick and mortar" new factories that are coming up all over Pakistan. Any sane investor can pull out their money at the slightest undesirable incident. So unless structural reforms back this "feel good business environment", its temporary and a bit dangerous some might say.
 
Starting the end of 2016 is when majority of the electric production projects which were started by the current government, come online. Its also when a few main projects around the Chinese route come online. So people will start to see a huge reduction in your import bill, which will strengthen the budget and will reduce the fiscal gap, in turn helping the savings account. A few million new jobs, from a basic construction worker to engineers, doctors and all will be created along the trade route. New real estate projects will begin to build housing around the trade route.

Next, starting January, some trade with the Chinese will start by road through Gawader. Plus some with the Central Russian / Russia itself. That should bring more stability and then shortly after the start, more projects will start, more infrastructure will be built and more investments will follow.

Most projects have yet to reach financial closure. If financial closure is reached today, it will take another 3.5 years to get them constructed and brought online. Most of these projects will reach financial closure April onwards.
 
I was saying that kse reached up to 31000 level and its return was ranked 3rd and even then we see a lot of unemployed, no tangible investment despite of ,the assumption of this barometer i-e kse shows investors confidence, the fact that investors are showing great confidence.
So first, you "praise" the government (which is PMLN essentially) and then you bring out the worse by putting PMLN under the gun by showing complicity and not doing Tax reforms. By now, I've figured out how you guys work.

Have you noticed, the Pakistanis are never happy? Unless its their own guy in power, destroying the country into pieces and that's OK. But others actually WORKING will JUST be criticized for no good reason.

The 70 years of backwards movement for an entire country (Pakistan), wasn't caused by the PMLN. Nor should you expect them to have magic by which they'll fix everything immediately. It'll be worse if the people had picked anyone else in the last elections.

The current focus is to grow the economy. This is outside of dealing with terrorism, dealing with political instability and violence (IK's "movement to get power"), dealing with such a bad economy, losses, internal corruption, external bad reputation as a country, etc, etc. So as you can see, these guys are dealing with a tremendous amounts of issues. But yet, they are STILL moving forward with progress. So let the progress continue and the economy go beyond where it's been stuck for years, let jobs be created, industry start to run again and all. The Tax reforms will come too. No country can survive without Tax reforms.
The entire Pakistani system is broken for 70 years. Expecting just ONE good term / government for 5 years to fix all evil is unrealistic and silly. Specially, the political foes aren't letting them work. Instead there is leg pulling that happens with everything.

Last but not least. The investments don't "just as easily" disappear. You should read International Business and the Law to understand how it works. Its much easier to be an internet warrior and accuse others. Its much different to show others through your post that you have a command on the complex issue you are addressing!



Please re-explain the bold and I'll answer it once your question is clear to me. I am not sure if I understand what the 31000 level or 3rd in world actually mean...



Starting the end of 2016 is when majority of the electric production projects which were started by the current government, come online. Its also when a few main projects around the Chinese route come online. So people will start to see a huge reduction in your import bill, which will strengthen the budget and will reduce the fiscal gap, in turn helping the savings account. A few million new jobs, from a basic construction worker to engineers, doctors and all will be created along the trade route. New real estate projects will begin to build housing around the trade route.

Next, starting January, some trade with the Chinese will start by road through Gawader. Plus some with the Central Russian / Russia itself. That should bring more stability and then shortly after the start, more projects will start, more infrastructure will be built and more investments will follow.

The Tax reforms will come too. No country can survive without Tax reforms.
Agreed. Because tax reforms commission has conducted its second meeting some days ago and in February or march it is going to present its final report or recommendation under the supervision of finance minister ishaq darr.
 
So first, you "praise" the government (which is PMLN essentially) and then you bring out the worse by putting PMLN under the gun by showing complicity and not doing Tax reforms. By now, I've figured out how you guys work.

Have you noticed, the Pakistanis are never happy? Unless its their own guy in power, destroying the country into pieces and that's OK. But others actually WORKING will JUST be criticized for no good reason.

The 70 years of backwards movement for an entire country (Pakistan), wasn't caused by the PMLN. Nor should you expect them to have magic by which they'll fix everything immediately. It'll be worse if the people had picked anyone else in the last elections.

The current focus is to grow the economy. This is outside of dealing with terrorism, dealing with political instability and violence (IK's "movement to get power"), dealing with such a bad economy, losses, internal corruption, external bad reputation as a country, etc, etc. So as you can see, these guys are dealing with a tremendous amounts of issues. But yet, they are STILL moving forward with progress. So let the progress continue and the economy go beyond where it's been stuck for years, let jobs be created, industry start to run again and all. The Tax reforms will come too. No country can survive without Tax reforms.
The entire Pakistani system is broken for 70 years. Expecting just ONE good term / government for 5 years to fix all evil is unrealistic and silly. Specially, the political foes aren't letting them work. Instead there is leg pulling that happens with everything.

Last but not least. The investments don't "just as easily" disappear. You should read International Business and the Law to understand how it works. Its much easier to be an internet warrior and accuse others. Its much different to show others through your post that you have a command on the complex issue you are addressing!



Please re-explain the bold and I'll answer it once your question is clear to me. I am not sure if I understand what the 31000 level or 3rd in world actually mean...



Starting the end of 2016 is when majority of the electric production projects which were started by the current government, come online. Its also when a few main projects around the Chinese route come online. So people will start to see a huge reduction in your import bill, which will strengthen the budget and will reduce the fiscal gap, in turn helping the savings account. A few million new jobs, from a basic construction worker to engineers, doctors and all will be created along the trade route. New real estate projects will begin to build housing around the trade route.

Next, starting January, some trade with the Chinese will start by road through Gawader. Plus some with the Central Russian / Russia itself. That should bring more stability and then shortly after the start, more projects will start, more infrastructure will be built and more investments will follow.


Some very nice points there mate ! Thanks for the insight.
 
Are you a fellow Trader ? :o:

No buddy. Just a lowly B school guy.

What I have noticed is, when news like these comes out, most people rather than researching why is that so decide to have their own interpretation and get down to dick measuring contest. It rarely adds value to the time spent here in the forum. So I just posed some relevant touch points which your country men must go into detail to ascertain the veracity.

What's that old chestnut ? Devil is always in the detail.
 


There is a lot more to a stock market than just profitability and indices. The market volume can change drastically between Bullish to Bearish. The kSE had doubled in the last 18 months, no other market has literally doubled in volume. This also doesn't mean that KSE is now above the Chinese and Indian markets either. How could that be? 1 Billion people will have far more companies, jobs and needs than 200 million people. That's common sense.
However, the bigger countries start to get saturated too, as they've been getting investments for a long time. In India's case, she's been getting a lot of investments externally since the 90's. Now the cost of living has gone up significantly and the profits are shrinking for these companies due to profit. Doesn't mean its bad market, it just means it is more stable. Same for the Chinese markets, etc. But some of these markets still return 15-25% per year which is really good. Some even 30%.
The relevance in Pakistan and Nigeria's case is that these two are now starting their economic growth. Due to that, even if the return on investments is at or below some other market, long term, there is a lot of profit to be made, just because unlike India, China or Brazil, these countries are now starting out as "Emerging Markets". BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China), was a90's thing so those markets have become more stable.

Good and positive indicator for our economy but we also need some serious reforms in our taxation and privatization sectors.

What's more important? Chicken or the Egg? If you want to cook the Chicken.....you won't have eggs again. Taxation related reforms will happen. But on a poor, weak system, what would increased tax do? Cripple the already poor people??

Point is, first the investment that is coming in, needs a place, i.e. projects to be applied to. As the initial projects (Infrastructure, Ports, Telecom, Public Transportation), start to complete in the next a couple of years, you'll be creating a few Million Much Needed jobs to expand the economy. That's your baseline. Once that happens, trust me, the Tax laws will be updated. No system can work successfully without Tax reforms. No Government wants to leave money on the table as taxes run the country and provide funding to help setup welfare programs, debt payoff, savings, and all.

I was saying that kse reached up to 31000 level and its return was ranked 3rd and even then we see a lot of unemployed, no tangible investment despite of ,the assumption of this barometer i-e kse shows investors confidence, the fact that investors are showing great confidence.

Agreed. Because tax reforms commission has conducted its second meeting some days ago and in February or march it is going to present its final report or recommendation under the supervision of finance minister ishaq darr.

Ok, I see where you going with this. KSE doubled in the past 18 months for all intensive purposes. That's pretty big. It does show investor's confidence as you've mentioned.

Now, what needs to happen is that the project in the pipeline need to finish. There are four most critical elements to grow an economy and sustain it: (1) Having investor confidence (2) having ongoing work to use the initial investment, put the money into something where it generates more profit and (3) New job creation and salary / market adjustments for the current jobs or levels (4) Taxation changes, with breaks for investors and proper tax brackets for people to pay.

So you have number 1: the investor's confidence in the KSE and at the Government level, almost $ 75 billion investment has been promised and more in the pipe line. Now if Pakistan can complete its few main projects (Electric production, Dams, some Highways, Metro, Coal Power, Gas Pipeline, linking Gawader to other areas), then you'd have created more jobs too, as all the above require Engineers, Managers, to Ordinary Labor. With this done, the next step is to sustain the economy so these projects produce profit, people can remain employed and the money / profit is used to start other projects, and the tax comes in and gets rid of the National Debt, slowly. That's when you'll see unemployment rates going down. I think I mentioned two more years, starting January, 2017, Pakistan will come up as one of the best emerging markets between its class, with NO terrorism, political stability and a stable democratic base, on which, the next generations of Pakistan (the current youth) will build upon.
 
There is a lot more to a stock market than just profitability and indices. The market volume can change drastically between Bullish to Bearish. The kSE had doubled in the last 18 months, no other market has literally doubled in volume. This also doesn't mean that KSE is now above the Chinese and Indian markets either. How could that be? 1 Billion people will have far more companies, jobs and needs than 200 million people. That's common sense.
However, the bigger countries start to get saturated too, as they've been getting investments for a long time. In India's case, she's been getting a lot of investments externally since the 90's. Now the cost of living has gone up significantly and the profits are shrinking for these companies due to profit. Doesn't mean its bad market, it just means it is more stable. Same for the Chinese markets, etc. But some of these markets still return 15-25% per year which is really good. Some even 30%.
The relevance in Pakistan and Nigeria's case is that these two are now starting their economic growth. Due to that, even if the return on investments is at or below some other market, long term, there is a lot of profit to be made, just because unlike India, China or Brazil, these countries are now starting out as "Emerging Markets". BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India and China), was a90's thing so those markets have become more stable.



What's more important? Chicken or the Egg? If you want to cook the Chicken.....you won't have eggs again. Taxation related reforms will happen. But on a poor, weak system, what would increased tax do? Cripple the already poor people??

Point is, first the investment that is coming in, needs a place, i.e. projects to be applied to. As the initial projects (Infrastructure, Ports, Telecom, Public Transportation), start to complete in the next a couple of years, you'll be creating a few MUCH NEEDED jobs to expand the economy. That's your baseline. Once that happens, trust me, the Tax laws will be updated. No system can work successfully without Tax reforms. No Government wants to leave money on the table as taxes run the country and provide funding to help setup welfare programs, debt payoff, savings, and all.

Keep it simple for the uninitiated and simple minds.

You can only tax profits and for that you need investment in first place.

To the fella harping on taxation reforms, be more humble in accepting some one's view. Orangzaib is right.
 
Back
Top Bottom