Korean War June 25, 1950: U.S. beaten by revolutionary war

Zero_wing · Jul 10, 2013

Wow arrogant much typical just typical

jhungary · Jul 10, 2013

Wholegrain said:
blah blah blah...

Are you alright? Do you need a doctor or something?? Well, I can say yeah the front line is stabilised and Chinese is GAINING ground (Starting to roll the enemy back up) if all of the above battle are Chinese Victory, but the truth is it isn't. It's a gaining and losing ground in 27 DIFFERENT battle. You have to be out of your mind to call it "Stabilised"

LOL you either have to be REALLY Stupid or REALLY stubborn. Either way, the discussion is over. Go ahead and believe the Front line is stabilised in 1940, I don't really care. Honestly, talking to you people is like talking to a wall. No point keep on talking to you if you are going to get all Nationalistic and post thing without a kernel of logic.

jhungary · Jul 10, 2013

Juice said:
You forgot to mention North Vietnam was so weakened, that when we left for political reasons it still took several years for them to gain the strength to take the south.

Vast size is still a deterrent....Few countries have that luxury. The US, China, Russia, Canada (count them with US size when push comes to shove) India, perhaps Brazil.

Technically speaking ted offensive put NVA and VC in the breaking point, it did achieve major news coverage but they also loose a large chunk of their force in the process. Forces that they desperately needed to roll the south over. If ted would have been a success, the time that took the south to wither and died will be dramatically shortened. Which is a big gamble to begin with.

The problem of Vietnam for us is clear in the beginning, when we are forbidden to go into the north and kill the source of insurgence in the south. When this RoE is set, there are literally NO CHANCE the US is going to come out as a winner. We did have chance to go to the North, in fact I think premier Zhou of PRC actually wanted the US to, but I think after 7 years of war and the war is loosing support fast, by the summer of 1972, there are literally people supporting the North Vietnam regime in America, hence a total war from the North is no longer possible.

For a war with no objective, you cannot win in that war, but you also can't lose.

And yes, having a Large land mass is a plus when you come to think of the term "Conquer in detail" which mean a conquering speed moving at snail pace. Can't do much unless you have equal amount of resource.

jhungary · Jul 10, 2013

Wholegrain said:
We kicked the western imperialists out of Taiwan

I love this quote

Yet you got squashed by the Japanese IMPERIALIST and got ur azz ruled by them for more than 40 years, How's your Japanese, mate??

Taiwan under Japanese rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Without the "WESTERN IMPERIALIST" Taiwan would still be called "大日本帝國臺灣" LMFAO :lol:

That's why I said Chinese on either side of the pond SELECTIVELY learn their own history to fit their way :lol:

ViXuyen · Jul 10, 2013

jhungary said:
Technically speaking ted offensive put NVA and VC in the breaking point, it did achieve major news coverage but they also loose a large chunk of their force in the process. Forces that they desperately needed to roll the south over. If ted would have been a success, the time that took the south to wither and died will be dramatically shortened. Which is a big gamble to begin with.

The problem of Vietnam for us is clear in the beginning, when we are forbidden to go into the north and kill the source of insurgence in the south. When this RoE is set, there are literally NO CHANCE the US is going to come out as a winner. We did have chance to go to the North, in fact I think premier Zhou of PRC actually wanted the US to, but I think after 7 years of war and the war is loosing support fast, by the summer of 1972, there are literally people supporting the North Vietnam regime in America, hence a total war from the North is no longer possible.

For a war with no objective, you cannot win in that war, but you also can't lose.

And yes, having a Large land mass is a plus when you come to think of the term "Conquer in detail" which mean a conquering speed moving at snail pace. Can't do much unless you have equal amount of resource.

South Viet Nam was devastated during the 1968 Tet Offense. The "liberal" U.S media started losing their faith ie political support for the war not because a few buildings/bridges/houses got blown up or a few troopers or civilians died during the fight but it was a massive scale of destruction in South Viet Nam during this offense.

The NVA/VC showed the U.S "liberal" media that they were not paper army with a few insurgents taking a sniper shot here and there in the jungle but a real deal who could stage and inflict a massive scale of offense and destruction on South Viet Nam's urban as well. Ironically, the U.S media started to loose faith in this war despite the NVA/VC incurred tens of thousands of casualties in this campaign.

gambit · Jul 10, 2013

ViXuyen said:
South Viet Nam was devastated during the 1968 Tet Offense.

Devastated in what way? Physically? Hardly. Just so you know -- Tôi sống hồi thời gian đó ở Sài Gòn -- I was five years old when the Tet Offensive occurred. Was the population terrified? Of course. Any population would be. The people would be uncertain as to whether things would get worse. But the truth is that the Tet Offensive was a military disaster for the NVA. The worst damages occurred in cities far from Sài Gòn, such as...

Massacre at Hue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Huế Massacre (Vietnamese: Thảm sát tại Huế Tết Mậu Thân or Vietnamese: thảm sát Tết Mậu Thân ở Hu&#7871 is the name given to the summary executions and mass killings perpetrated by the Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army during their capture, occupation and later withdrawal from the city of Huế during the Tet Offensive, considered one of the longest and bloodiest battles of the Vietnam War.

What happened at Huế was repeated in different scales wherever the NVA/VC forces occupied. The South Vietnamese turned against the VC and former sympathizers became informers. The backlash was so bad that the VC ceased to be an effective fighting force after 1968. Before, the VC were able to occasionally wielded battalion strength, after 1968, they could muster no higher than squad level.

Võ Nguyên Giáp actually objected to the battle plan. He felt that the South Vietnamese were insufficiently on the side of the North. He was overruled by the Politburo and ordered to execute the offensive anyway. The NVA/VC failed, just as he predicted.

The majority of the Viet population today are borned after 1975 and am willing to bet you are of that post war era. I am not. You have no memory of the war while I lived thru it. I lost relatives fighting against the communists. I have a shrapnel scar on my upper left chest as one reminder of many reminders of the war. It was a VC fighter that threw that grenade towards a group of terrified children. The school was in Thủ Đức. The attack came when I was 7 and it was one of many civilian targets that the VC specifically singled out. After 1968, the VC became terrorists in the worst context of the word.

Communism failed Viet Nam just like it failed every other people unfortunate enough to live under it. You may be able to peddle Party propaganda elsewhere on the Internet where Viets are rare in ethnically diverse forums. But not in this one.

thesolar65 · Jul 10, 2013

Big Articles like this is a torture for the eye and mind and tests the reader's patience!! It is like studying history...

Nan Yang · Jul 10, 2013

Ahiska said:
But despite all of that china didnt defeat the US it was a draw because north and south korea exist and no one kicked the other ones *** much.

The Korean war....
Also known as "The wrong war in the wrong place and in the wrong time" ... For a reason.
Also known as "The forgotten war" .... No memorial was ever build .... Until recently.

Zero_wing · Jul 11, 2013

jhungary said:
READ :

Battle of Zaoyang [May - June 1940 - Chinese Victory]
Hundred Regiments Offensive - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [August - Dec 1940 - Chinese Victory]
Central Hubei Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ Nov 1940 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of South Henan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ Jan - March 1941 - Chinese Victory]
Western Hubei Operation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ March 1941 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of Shanggao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ March to April 1941 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of South Shanxi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [May 1941 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Changsha (1941) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [September -October 1941 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of Changsha (1942) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [Dec 41- Jan -42 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of Hong Kong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [Dec 1941 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Yunnan-Burma Road - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [March - June 1942 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Tachiao - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [March 1942 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Oktwin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [March 1942 - Japanese Victory]
Zhejiang-Jiangxi Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [May - September 1942 - Japanese Victory]
Sichuan invasion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [Sept 1942 - April 1943 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of West Hubei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [May - June 1943 - Draw]
Battle of Northern Burma and Western Yunnan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [Oct 1943 - EOW - Chinese/Allied Victory]
Battle of Changde - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [Nov 1943 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Changde - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [ Jan 1944 - Chinese Victory]
Operation Ichi-Go - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [April - Dec 1944 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Central Henan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [April - May 1944 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Changsha (1944) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [May - August 1944 - Japanese Victory]
Battle of Guilin [August - November 1944 -Japanese Victory]
Battle of West Henan [March 1944 - May 1945 - Draw]
Battle of Mount Song - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [June - September 1944 - Chinese Victory]
Battle of West Hunan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [April -June 1945 - Chinese/Allied Victory]
Second Guangxi Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [August 4 - 1945 - Chinese Victory]

That's 27 MAJOR battle in 4.5 years, that's involve over a million soldier from both side and probably fought in 100+ smaller engagement as part of these battle, and you STILL HAVE THE GUTS TO SAY THE FRONT LINE IS STABLISED IN 1940??

Are you alright? Do you need a doctor or something?? Well, I can say yeah the front line is stabilised and Chinese is GAINING ground (Starting to roll the enemy back up) if all of the above battle are Chinese Victory, but the truth is it isn't. It's a gaining and losing ground in 27 DIFFERENT battle. You have to be out of your mind to call it "Stabilised"

LOL you either have to be REALLY Stupid or REALLY stubborn. Either way, the discussion is over. Go ahead and believe the Front line is stabilised in 1940, I don't really care. Honestly, talking to you people is like talking to a wall. No point keep on talking to you if you are going to get all Nationalistic and post thing without a kernel of logic.

both is the answer

jhungary · Jul 11, 2013

ViXuyen said:
South Viet Nam was devastated during the 1968 Tet Offense. The "liberal" U.S media started losing their faith ie political support for the war not because a few buildings/bridges/houses got blown up or a few troopers or civilians died during the fight but it was a massive scale of destruction in South Viet Nam during this offense.

The NVA/VC showed the U.S "liberal" media that they were not paper army with a few insurgents taking a sniper shot here and there in the jungle but a real deal who could stage and inflict a massive scale of offense and destruction on South Viet Nam's urban as well. Ironically, the U.S media started to loose faith in this war despite the NVA/VC incurred tens of thousands of casualties in this campaign.

Funny you should say the South Vietnam is devastated, in fact Tet Offensive is the biggest and deadiest Offensive US suffer during the whole Vietnam war, US Loses 2600+ casualty and boosting the total lost in year 1968 the deadliest lost to 16,000 that years. The battle itself is a short fought and most of the battle are ended within a weeks and the longest hold out is Battle at hue which lasted for 2 months and battle in Khe Shan, which the siege lasted for 2 months as well, but the battle gone on for 7 months.

The problem US military facing in Tet is not VC or NVA, rather the Journo from Stateside. Tet is the first offensive raged in Cities, previously, VC/NVA troop only engage the US in Valley, Highland or Rural Mountain Area in Vietnam. Where the Journo would have no mean of Transport until the military decided to take them to it, by then all the effect of fighting is already gone and the Military already had "police up" the battlefield so there are no harm done to the US military and the Military can spin this whatever they wanted and the journalist is none-the wiser.

However, when you start fighting in the City area like Hue, Da Nang, Saigon or Nha Trang, where the Journo was actually living, then there are "News Uncensored". The video dead US Army MP in Saigon Embassy lying on the floor while their fellow soldier trying to get in is a very much 180 degree contradiction to whatever the Army was claiming before that moment. things is a bit different when you actually did see American soldier bodies lying on the ground and still being shot repeatedly. When you bring the actual war back home. People will feel disgusted and ask themselves why they are there in the first place.

Despite crushing the VC in months and most Military analyst simultaneous claim VC are no longer a valid fighting force (Or in military term, Combat Ineffective Force), which mean that campaign the US/ARVN actually nailed the VC in his coffin. Normal people don't really care, nor understand, hence the public support is dropping despite we actually won that campaign with Flying Color.

In fact, 1968 is the deadliest year of the war, HOWEVER, according casualty number, the year previously is as deadly than the years that follow Tet, in which the whole US momentum in Vietnam wounded down. US would have the same level of operational effectiveness as before, just the people back home see the deadliest day at work, over their own television set.

Vietnam War Casualty Statistics by Race, Sex, Religion, etc...

What tet done to the South Vietnam and the US is EXACTLY AS BEFORE. Just because the people back home able to see the first hand horror unfolding is a reason for them to lose support. Otherwise the course of the war is the same with not much change, except VC were no longer exist after tet and replaced with NVA troop piping from the north.

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Korean War June 25, 1950: U.S. beaten by revolutionary war

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