kashmir : the definitive solution

[jamahir]

@jamahir bhai,
Long time since I read an article in plain English without rings and bells.

yes, that is the gaddafi writing style... excludes any reference to unnecessary legal wordings and complicated fake diplomat talk.

This solution looks too optimistic,

yes, because the author writes in naive understanding that there should be no natural objection to resolving kashmir... the author is ideologically removed from nationalistic hatreds.

but not just because of the attitude of our two countries currently. Kashmiris themselves are too nowand they have suspicions over each other. Very few outside the valley want Nizam-e-Mustafa. The radicals want nothing short of joining Pakistan based on the exact premise your article calls to avoid which is religious basis.

true... at least in indian kashmir, when extremists like aasiya andrabi have been allowed ( by indian government, i would say ) to divert kashmiris from the older talk of independence to newer talk of "sharia society", peace would be the last thing they would talk of... and in jammu, the sangh parivar freely floats about.

that is what i meant when i said to save_ghenda in post# 25 that kashmiris on both sides should be guided rightly.

but i didn't understand your reference to nizam-e-mustafa.

And the dreamers of J&K's unity are caught in between.

i don't know if they have ever looked at this solution... it is from 2002.

 

[Soumitra]

agriculture, tourism, minerals ( if any ), selling electricity, visa-free business zone, space-related companies ( like spacex, bigelow )... many things...

Agriculture - Cold mountaneous terrain. Not hospitable for agriculture based economy
Tourism - About the only thing possible
Minerals - No minerals available
Selling Electricity - How will you generate electricity. You dont have any coal. You can just use hydro power. but it has two problems. Where will you find money for dams? Even if you get money why will Pakistan allow you to build dams. It is already peeved at India for so called violations of the Indus Water treaty. India can afford to sutain against Pakistan and also win in International tribunals. Can the independent state of Kashmir do it
Visa Free business zone - Where will you do business? Where is the land for the factories. Where will you set up business and conventional centers ala Dubai?
Space Related Companies - Same problem as others. Where is the land. Even if they find the land for research and rocket launching what will be their business model? Sending tourists to space? hardly an economically sustainable model. Launching Satellites- Why will anyone ask them to launch satellites when ISRO is next door is so much experienced and so low cost. We sent a mission to Mars at less than the cost of a movie on space
Many Others - Blah Blah Blah. There is nothing except tourism in that region

Please be practical and not think of utopia. Tell me how can independent Kashmir survive? And i did not even talk of its security situation

 

[rubyjackass]

Kudos to gaddafi then

that is what i meant when i said to save_ghenda in post# 25 that kashmiris on both sides should be guided rightly.

but i didn't understand your reference to nizam-e-mustafa.

Guided by whom towards what? By Nizam-e-Mustafa I mean the sharia society Kashmiris are asking. Even the indigenous Kashmiri independence movement was rallied with cries for a sharia society. Many Kashmiri pandits who fled the valley corroborate this. So it is not just Indian government allowing radicals in J&K. The radicalism is homegrown and sharia is something even people like Geelani ask for.

i don't know if they have ever looked at this solution... it is from 2002.

I understand. My question is simply how will the people who got kicked out of their homes, trust the perpetrators in charge of an independent Kashmir? There is no effort whatsoever from the mainstream to address Jammu, forget about including them in the independence movement. In this, Kashmiri nationalists are as narrow-minded as India and Pakistan are. They care only about the land and basically say: give us independence and we will take care of the people while the people themselves are afraid of nationalism.

 

[SAMEET]

Add another buffer state "Khalistan" in your solution to ensure the safety of buffer state of J&K

so you shall give lahore too ? as whole punjab is been said as khalistan !

 

[Stephen Cohen]

There is only one solution

Kashmiris should ACCEPT reality of being an integral part of India
and forget about Pakistan

 

[Sugarcane]

so you shall give lahore too ? as whole punjab is been said as khalistan !

Just Lahore?

 

[The_Showstopper]

Agriculture - Cold mountaneous terrain. Not hospitable for agriculture based economy
Tourism - About the only thing possible
Minerals - No minerals available
Selling Electricity - How will you generate electricity. You dont have any coal. You can just use hydro power. but it has two problems. Where will you find money for dams? Even if you get money why will Pakistan allow you to build dams. It is already peeved at India for so called violations of the Indus Water treaty. India can afford to sutain against Pakistan and also win in International tribunals. Can the independent state of Kashmir do it
Visa Free business zone - Where will you do business? Where is the land for the factories. Where will you set up business and conventional centers ala Dubai?
Space Related Companies - Same problem as others. Where is the land. Even if they find the land for research and rocket launching what will be their business model? Sending tourists to space? hardly an economically sustainable model. Launching Satellites- Why will anyone ask them to launch satellites when ISRO is next door is so much experienced and so low cost. We sent a mission to Mars at less than the cost of a movie on space
Many Others - Blah Blah Blah. There is nothing except tourism in that region

Please be practical and not think of utopia. Tell me how can independent Kashmir survive? And i did not even talk of its security situation

I agree with most of your points but just had a query. I did hear couple of times that Article 370 should be abolished so that development can take place. So how is this development going to take place?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

This seems to be a direct endorsement and support of terrorism.

Who is the author of this BS article

@jamahir I thought you just supported lunatic marxist utopian socialist theories but now it seems you are also starting to support terrorism. In one thread you were supporting the maoists and naxals "The single greatest internal security threat to india" Now you are supporting kashmiri terrorists.

Why is that the leftist people are teroorist sympathisers

jamahir is a terrorist. There are many others here. jamahir is the least harmful among them.

Agriculture - Cold mountaneous terrain. Not hospitable for agriculture based economy
Tourism - About the only thing possible
Minerals - No minerals available
Selling Electricity - How will you generate electricity. You dont have any coal. You can just use hydro power. but it has two problems. Where will you find money for dams? Even if you get money why will Pakistan allow you to build dams. It is already peeved at India for so called violations of the Indus Water treaty. India can afford to sutain against Pakistan and also win in International tribunals. Can the independent state of Kashmir do it
Visa Free business zone - Where will you do business? Where is the land for the factories. Where will you set up business and conventional centers ala Dubai?
Space Related Companies - Same problem as others. Where is the land. Even if they find the land for research and rocket launching what will be their business model? Sending tourists to space? hardly an economically sustainable model. Launching Satellites- Why will anyone ask them to launch satellites when ISRO is next door is so much experienced and so low cost. We sent a mission to Mars at less than the cost of a movie on space
Many Others - Blah Blah Blah. There is nothing except tourism in that region

Please be practical and not think of utopia. Tell me how can independent Kashmir survive? And i did not even talk of its security situation

Think the other way.

Give independence to Kashmir.

Then why not give to Himachal Pradesh? Just because they are Hindu? Then why not Assam? They are majority Muslim. Why not Northern Kerala? Why not Hyderabad? Why not parts of UP, Bihar, Bengal ?

 

[The_Showstopper]

According to some Sanghi cyber goons over here, all muslims are terrorists and all Hindus are DeshBhakts. Pity their sorry state of mind.... One of them still seem to carry their bruises(Butt hurts of other threads) right here on this thread....

 

[Kaniska]

I agree with most of your points but just had a query. I did hear couple of times that Article 370 should be abolished so that development can take place. So how is this development going to take place?

Forget about local politics of nuances....Then i will ask you other way around, what the heck Kashmir valley has acheived with 370 in last 65 years....Let us put in a simple way....India needs Kashmir because we feel that our nation can accommodate people of all faith...If any one is suggesting that Kashmir integration with India will be diluted to any minor way just because Muslims can not live with Hindus of the valley...Then i do not mind giving them freedom to Kashmir valley....But the same things should be replicated throughout India too...Let us mane India a Non Muslim nation and then Kashmir valley or whatever the Jammu Kashmir people want can do that. Although I do not like my nation to be a Non Muslim state, but if most of the Muslims are silent without strongly endorsing India's stand, then there is nothing wrong in opening up the option too...

One thing for clear, maintaining Human rights in Kashmir is not a one way street...If people want human rights to be maintained, then they should also understand what are the ground realities that are needed for peaceful state....

 

[The_Showstopper]

Forget about local politics of nuances....Then i will ask you other way around, what the heck Kashmir valley has acheived with 370 in last 65 years....Let us put in a simple way....India needs Kashmir because we feel that our nation can accommodate people of all faith...If any one is suggesting that Kashmir integration with India will be diluted to any minor way just because Muslims can not live with Hindus of the valley...Then i do not mind giving them freedom to Kashmir valley....But the same things should be replicated throughout India too...Let us mane India a Non Muslim nation and then Kashmir valley or whatever the Jammu Kashmir people want can do that. Although I do not like my nation to be a Non Muslim state, but if most of the Muslims are silent without strongly endorsing India's stand, then there is nothing wrong in opening up the option too...

One thing for clear, maintaining Human rights in Kashmir is not a one way street...If people want human rights to be maintained, then they should also understand what are the ground realities that are needed for peaceful state....

Where did I state or recommend that Kashmir should be leave Indian Union? My query was to how will Kashmir be developed if article 370 is abolished? What steps would be taken?

And speaking of your question, If India wants a peaceful kashmir as an integral part of India, then we should start taking steps where Kashmir and ROI should have mutual trust. On one side you have Sadhvis, Maharajs and company wanting a Hindu Rashtra and on the other hand, the country's premier speaks of Kashmiriyat and yet fails to kick on the balls of these Sanghis who are out their to finish off the minorities. It is because this that the separatists in valley get a chance to drum up the support for independence. One solution would be to get rid of this hardcore hindutva, assure people of valley, rehabilitate the displaced Pandits in Kashmir, design ways to boost the economy and employment. Protect the place from foreign interference(Read Pakistan) and you will get to see a peaceful Kashmir which will be an integral part of India...

 

[Soumitra]

I agree with most of your points but just had a query. I did hear couple of times that Article 370 should be abolished so that development can take place. So how is this development going to take place?

If A370 is abolished the rest of India can make investments in the state. People will be free to migrate and settle there for jobs and business and not just as tourists

 

[Kabira]

If A370 is abolished the rest of India can make investments in the state. People will be free to migrate and settle there for jobs and business and not just as tourists

This is unacceptable for Pakistanis, sorry

 

[jamahir]

Many Kashmiri pandits who fled the valley corroborate this. So it is not just Indian government allowing radicals in J&K. The radicalism is homegrown and sharia is something even people like Geelani ask for.

of course the pandits should be ensured safe return and resettlement... i think even the people of "panun kashmir" want peace ( i don't know if this organization is still alive ).

geelani, jklf and others ( i don't know who else ) should be given the chance to consider the solution in the op... if they don't accept, they should be exiled... additionally any criminal gangs ( like ex-fighters from cia anti-socialist afghan war ) should be eliminated.

Guided by whom towards what?

not least by progressive groups in all of geographical kashmir... in indian kashmir, however reduced, there is the communist party leadered by mohammed yousuf tarigami ( i first heard of him long back ), and there is the panther's party which seems to be progressive.

By Nizam-e-Mustafa I mean the sharia society Kashmiris are asking. Even the indigenous Kashmiri independence movement was rallied with cries for a sharia society.

on the other hand, from 2009...

A street vendor in Srinagar, Kashmir’s summer capital, sold hundreds of framed portraits of Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi in the last one week.

Kashmiri separatists and many residents are all praise for Gaddafi after his maiden address to the U.N. General Assembly last week in which he said Kashmir should be an “independent state

Last week, dozens of Kashmiris carried placards reading “Gaddafi The Lion of Desert II” referring to the 1981 Hollywood movie “Lion of the Desert”, which is about Omar Mukhtar, who led the rebellion against Italian rule in Libya and was captured and hanged in 1931.

Encouraged by the speech, separatist leaders say Gaddafi’s statement in the U.N. General Assembly should serve as an eye-opener for Indian and Pakistani leaders.

source - Is Gaddafi’s U.N. speech winning him a fan base in Kashmir?

i wonder what @SarthakGanguly would say about this... he would declare all kashmiris as "terrorists" and the sanghis in jammu ( and elsewhere ) as progressive peace-loving intellectual groups.

There is no effort whatsoever from the mainstream to address Jammu, forget about including them in the independence movement. In this, Kashmiri nationalists are as narrow-minded as India and Pakistan are.

i agree.

i don't know what necessity retained the name "jammu" but it was a mistake doing so, for it separated that land into "them and us".

sorry for the late reply but i could only formulate the words now.

amahir is a terrorist. There are many others here. jamahir is the least harmful among them.

what do you this about this chap... terrorist?? think carefully of his anc and its supporters....

According to some Sanghi cyber goons over here, all muslims are terrorists and all Hindus are DeshBhakts. Pity their sorry state of mind.... One of them still seem to carry their bruises(Butt hurts of other threads) right here on this thread....

what do you think of my above post??

 

[SarthakGanguly]

he would declare all kashmiris as "terrorists"

Me? WTF!!! Why would I call myself a terrorist? An errorist may be.

You are loads of fun. You can kill with your jokes.