Kargil war date:event sheet

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Lol. On some other thread I gave a British source to you and you dismissed it as Jewish. Indian source was rubbish. Pakistani source was "sold out".

First up - Here is a Pak source for Reidel account -
https://www.dawn.com/news/216034/clinton-adviser-confusion-gripped-islamabad-during-kargil-crisis

And here is a video from the Associated Press about the meeting.

Not that sources matter to you. Just like facts don't. But perhaps others can learn.

The problem with the above sources are that they are conjectural and speculative and are also not backed up by cross-referencing. Especially with regards to hard facts and GENUINE CREDIBLE evidence. It's like asking someone to believe that 350 terrorists were killed in Balakot and an F-16 was shot down just because indian kind said so.

 

[KhanBaba2]

1971 is literally known as a Hindu holocaust, do you really want to go there?

This can get interesting.

 

[Jackdaws]

The problem with the above sources are that they are conjectural and speculative and are also not backed up by cross-referencing. Especially with regards to hard facts and GENUINE CREDIBLE evidence. It's like asking someone to believe that 350 terrorists were killed in Balakot and an F-16 was shot down just because indian kind said so.

Sure. Sure. The video is doctored by the Associated Press which is controlled by the Indian Ministry and Bruce Reidel is a RAW agent and Dawn newspaper is anti Pak. I know the routine. Yawn.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Sure. Sure. The video is doctored by the Associated Press which is controlled by the Indian Ministry and Bruce Reidel is a RAW agent and Dawn newspaper is anti Pak. I know the routine. Yawn.

So when indians claim they shot down an F-16 and killed exactly 350 terrorists in Balakot they were telling the truth? We are to believe that?

When the likes of Bruce Reidel claimed that Iraq had WMDs that destroy Europe in 30 mins, are we to believe that too? That lie cost the lives of over 1 million innocent Iraqis between 2003 - 2014.

Why are you so hell bent on believing lies?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Directly addressing OP's questions:

How credible is this?

Fairly credible, but missing a lot, and mostly lists events from Indian perspective.

Did we actually lose ?

Yes, no doubt we lost. Strategically, tactically (by the end), and diplomatically.

It's important to acknowledge and then learn from failures and defeats, those who don't are doomed to repeat them.

Is gen pervaiz musharraf is sole responsible for this ?

Yes, Musharraf is to blame both for starting the conflict, and for losing it despite what he claims today.
Well almost...

You have to assign some of the blame to others of the Gang of Four who aided him.

And a much smaller proportion of the blame is assigned to the civilian government and ex-PM, any competent civilian government in an actual democracy would never allow rogue generals to go unchecked as Pakistani civilians are always forced to do.

Did Pakistan army refuse to collect the corpse of martyred soldier bodies?

Yes. This is a hard fact for us to swallow, but it's especially true of the early stages in the conflict.
Remember, our official line was that these are 'non-state actors'. Freedom fighters/Militants without the support of the Pakistani state or army. When Indians had possession of martyred NLI and other jawans, including NLI officers, our official stance forbade us from acknowledging them as our own. That's not to say we didn't collect bodies of martyrs at all, we did. And it is damningly indicative of Musharraf's guilt and incompetence.

I read all this on wikipedia and i m blown right now!

I was as blown away as you were when I learned the truth reading about Kargil, we were fed propaganda by Musharraf post-coup. He had to save his skin, had he not have staged a coup, he would have been court martialed for Kargil. And of course India and Pakistan, like other states, cover up failures through propaganda.

Indians are busy doing with Feb-27, we've been doing it about Kargil. Although now facts of Kargil are far better known and confirmed from our own sources too. The truth always wins out.

 

[Secularindian]

The IA came in, but couldn't regain the lost territory.

When War Was Stopped India regained Lot Lost territory When IA came Pakistan army hardly Few KM away from Srinagar
See the Casualty ratio
Pakistan Were Poorly equipped compared British IA that time Which changed in 1965

 

[Rafale+Meteor+Spectra]

If you could go into detail about those other peaks, that would be nice. You also failed to address my other points.

Clearly mentioned in Nasim Zehras book on Kargil. Mount Anzabar is one of the several peaks in Qamar sector of GB she mentions was captured by India

 

[Jackdaws]

So when indians claim they shot down an F-16 and killed exactly 350 terrorists in Balakot they were telling the truth? We are to believe that?

When the likes of Bruce Reidel claimed that Iraq had WMDs that destroy Europe in 30 mins, are we to believe that too? That lie cost the lives of over 1 million innocent Iraqis between 2003 - 2014.

Why are you so hell bent on believing lies?

You are free to believe what you want. The video is there for you to see. As are various accounts. If you want to compare a well documented account to Balakot and F16 which is not documented, that's upto you.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

You are free to believe what you want. The video is there for you to see. As are various accounts. If you want to compare a well documented account to Balakot and F16 which is not documented, that's upto you.

Not documented yet such ludicrous claims????........so you admit indians were lying about having killed 350 terrorists in Balakot and shooting down an f-16.........

 

[vishwambhar]

Wrong. Only Pathankot can decide fate of Kashmir

If you control kargil then you can disturb the highway which connects Kashmir to rest of India... there's one more highway from himachal Pradesh but that makes logistics too costly... India is not fool to deploy air force along with army to liberate kargil... not to mention Indian navy too was fully battle ready in case of an all out war required...

 

[Jackdaws]

Not documented yet such ludicrous claims????........so you admit indians were lying about having killed 350 terrorists in Balakot and shooting down an f-16.........

I am saying it is undocumented. I highly doubt the 350 figure - it seems to be conjured from thin air. I am inclined to believe the F-16 claim but yes, I would rather have proof. Pak has been saying it shot down a Sukhoi too without any proof. The only definite proof we have is of India bombing Balakot, Abhinandan being shot down and India downing its own chopper. Now please don't get deviating.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I am saying it is undocumented. I highly doubt the 350 figure - it seems to be conjured from thin air. I am inclined to believe the F-16 claim but yes, I would rather have proof. Pak has been saying it shot down a Sukhoi too without any proof. The only definite proof we have is of India bombing Balakot, Abhinandan being shot down and India downing its own chopper. Now please don't get deviating.

So if the indian government and their people have lied about that what else have they lied about?

 

[Αиgяу вιя∂]

@Jungibaaz @PAKISTANFOREVER
I heard an Indian on this post saying “ kargil is strategically important, by controlling kargil one can easily control Kashmir as its highest peak in that area”

if it’s true then don't you think kargil war would make Musharraf a hero ( in case he wins)

 

[Jackdaws]

So if the indian government and their people have lied about that what else have they lied about?

Not the Indian people but the Indian Government, especially the current one has spread a lot of b.s. Within India and many of us can see thru it. But again, you are deviating.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz @PAKISTANFOREVER
I heard an Indian on this post saying “ kargil is strategically important, by controlling kargil one can easily control Kashmir as its highest peak in that area”

if it’s true then doesn't kargil war would make Musharraf a hero ( in case he wins)

That was his intention. This plan of capturing strategically important peaks near Kargil Dras sector existed long before 1999, after Siachen this plan to capture those peaks when they were vacant was floated as a way to get back at India using their own tactic, the idea was (as I've read, and feel free to correct me) to hold those peaks and bring India to withdrawing from Siachen and usual pressure to negotiate on Kashmir. The plan was shelved for exact reasons why Kargil in 99 failed. Musharraf revived it and attempted to win glory. We won almost nothing as a result and traded/lost a lot for it.

In 1999, NH1 had way more strategic importance for India than it is today. Tololing and Tiger Hill directly overlooked a section of that highway. Targeting the highway would mean that Siachen and Leh would be essentially cut off.