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July-May: Rs48b spent on Karachi’s nuclear power plants

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July-May: Rs48b spent on Karachi’s nuclear power plants
Published: June 28, 2015



ISLAMABAD:
Despite all difficulties, Pakistan is steadily continuing its nuclear energy programme with the help of China. The country has spent Rs48 billion during the last year on two Karachi nuclear power plants that have a combined generation capacity of 2,117 megawatts.


From July through May of the outgoing fiscal year, China extended loans amounting to $477.3 million or Rs48 billion for the two nuclear power plants, K2 and K3, according to the Economic Affairs Division (EAD). The money has been given to Chinese suppliers of the power plants.

The total cost of these two power plants is $9.5 billion including the $6.5-billion foreign financing component. The projects were planned during the tenure of Pakistan Peoples’ Party but were approved by the PML-N government in July 2013.

China and Pakistan signed loan agreements for both power plants early last year. Officials said both sides have also agreed to modify the agreements to change the borrower from government of Pakistan to Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC).

Read: Nuclear power plants: ‘Production to be raised to 40,000MW by 2050’

However, the federal government will be the guarantor and responsible to return the loans. The modifications have been introduced aimed at keeping the huge spending outside budgetary books.

Had the government booked the expenses on nuclear power plants on the budget, it would have been impossible for it to keep the budget deficit around 5% of Gross Domestic Product in the outgoing fiscal year, ending on June 30.

The issue of treatment of spending on Karachi nuclear power plants remained unresolved during last year. The Ministry of Finance was reluctant to book $9.5 billion spending on its books.

To resolve the issue, many back and forth meetings were held between Finance Minister Ishaq Dar, Director General Strategic Plans Division and the PAEC.

Sources said Pakistan has also taken International Monetary Fund (IMF) into confidence about the revised accounting treatment of spending on K2 and K3. The Rs48-billion spending is now excluded from the outgoing fiscal year’s Rs525-billion Public Sector Development Programme.

According to the Ministry of Finance’s budgetary books, for the outgoing fiscal year, the government has estimated receiving Rs87.7 billion loan from China for both the nuclear power plants. The PAEC, which is handling the nuclear power plants, has sent a fresh withdrawal request to the Chinese authorities. The authorities are anticipating that the remaining Rs39.7 billion will be received from China before June-end.

Read: Nuclear power plants: Can’t give a year to review report, says SEPA director

For the new fiscal year, beginning from July, the government has estimated receiving Rs121 billion loans for both nuclear power plants from China. The authorities are planning to complete both projects by 2024 aimed at meeting the growing energy needs of the country.

At present, Pakistan is generating only 665MW of electricity from nuclear sources. The government has estimated that another 340MW will be added to the national grid by next year, as Chashma-III nuclear power plant is nearing completion.

The Chashma-IV, also having 340MW generation capacity, is expected to be completed by 2017. In total, 2,880MW nuclear power plants are at various stages of completion.

Last year, PAEC Chairman Ansar Parvez, had briefed the media about his agency’s plan to progress the country’s peaceful civil nuclear programme for meeting the energy requirements. He had said that despite facing various kinds of embargoes, the authorities have planned to install 42,000MW through nuclear power plants till 2050.

Published in The Express Tribune, June 28th, 2015.
 
Can somebody clarify to me whether PAEC can itself build these plants on their own?
 
No...not the ones being built in Karachi, not even China can build these on their own.... although China holds the IP on these, they are actually of US origin, and one the the most reliable in the world!

Can somebody clarify to me whether PAEC can itself build these plants on their own?
 
No...not the ones being built in Karachi, not even China can build these on their own.... although China holds the IP on these, they are actually of US origin, and one the the most reliable in the world!
manufacture then?
 
And i thought that Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy and Co were successful in taking some stay order against it.
 
I have major problems with the numbers.

Firstly; 2,117 MW fossil fuel plants should cost no more than $2 to 3-billion. Nuclear power plants are about twice as expensive, thus about $4-billion. As matter of fact cost of nuclear plants is coming down and modern plants are far cheaper. According to latest publication that I came across, General Electric is building 1080 MW power plant in Nigeria in two phases. First phase of 500 MW will cost $900-million. This translates into $1.8-million per MW or $3.81-billion for 2, 117 MW. $9.5-billion is more than twice as much!

http://www.rff.org/Publications/Resources/Documents/156/RFF_Resources_156_nuclear.pdf

Geometric Power, GE to build 1,080 MW plant in Nigeria| Reuters

My second problem is with the size of nuclear reactors. The report says that there will be only two units each of about 1000 MW capacity. I am aware of the Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in Japan where units of 1,100 MW & 1, 356 MW have been operation for a long time. These units were also designed by General Electric, all other plants have smaller units.

However, I have heard of the Chinese design PWR CAP 1400 (China Advanced Passive) which has been evolved from the imported Westinghouse AP1000 design. AP1000 was scheduled to start operations at Sanmen power plant, Zhejiang in 2015.

Have the Chinese developed sufficient technical expertise to design such large units so quickly? Perhaps, but the current trend is towards smaller compact units, why not tested & tried 500 MW units?

I would conclude that this is a wishy-washy news item written by journalists with ‘zero’ idea of the world nuclear power scene. It is no doubt a welcome development but cost figures are definitely wrong. I am sure that bureaucrats in the Pak Ministry of Power are much better informed and would not agree to pay double the normal cost.
 
I have major problems with the numbers.

Firstly; 2,117 MW fossil fuel plants should cost no more than $2 to 3-billion. Nuclear power plants are about twice as expensive, thus about $4-billion. As matter of fact cost of nuclear plants is coming down and modern plants are far cheaper. According to latest publication that I came across, General Electric is building 1080 MW power plant in Nigeria in two phases. First phase of 500 MW will cost $900-million. This translates into $1.8-million per MW or $3.81-billion for 2, 117 MW. $9.5-billion is more than twice as much!

http://www.rff.org/Publications/Resources/Documents/156/RFF_Resources_156_nuclear.pdf

Geometric Power, GE to build 1,080 MW plant in Nigeria| Reuters

My second problem is with the size of nuclear reactors. The report says that there will be only two units each of about 1000 MW capacity. I am aware of the Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant in Japan where units of 1,100 MW & 1, 356 MW have been operation for a long time. These units were also designed by General Electric, all other plants have smaller units.

However, I have heard of the Chinese design PWR CAP 1400 (China Advanced Passive) which has been evolved from the imported Westinghouse AP1000 design. AP1000 was scheduled to start operations at Sanmen power plant, Zhejiang in 2015.

Have the Chinese developed sufficient technical expertise to design such large units so quickly? Perhaps, but the current trend is towards smaller compact units, why not tested & tried 500 MW units?

I would conclude that this is a wishy-washy news item written by journalists with ‘zero’ idea of the world nuclear power scene. It is no doubt a welcome development but cost figures are definitely wrong. I am sure that bureaucrats in the Pak Ministry of Power are much better informed and would not agree to pay double the normal cost.


Niaz bhai

No one can challenge your analysis on energy project. So this post is in no way a challenge to your command on this subject.

I have been a self taught follower of this topic for many years now. So here is a summary (purely from my memory so I may be wrong).

Chinese have bought the blue prints of AP-1000 from Westinghouse. I believe the overall deal was 6 such units with average cost of roughly $2 billion per unit cost. If you do google, Pittsburgh PA newspaper had this news some two years ago.

This deal also allowed Chinese to reproduce and sell the units to third parties (as long they follow established laws dealing with exports of such things).

Us Pakistanis could have made a deal with US on this. Me thinks we didn't want to sign the treaties that US would have us sign.

So we ended up going with Chinese

I am OK upto this point.

And just like you, I am smelling huge markup by Chinese. They are charging us almost 5 billion dollars extra for the two units.

And this is a shame.

This is the price of us not being able to have the ability to buy direct from the source aka Westinghouse. We would have saved those extra $5 billion.

peace


p.s. AP1000 has upper limit on its electricity output a bit more than 1000 MW, and this is why OP gives the total capacity to be 2000+MW instead of just 2000MW.


p.ps.

Perhaps Pakistani gov is padding the price under electric loans and then buying something else from Chinese. Sorry this is just a conspiracy theory of positive kind. I have no direct knowledge. But anything else so far doesn't make sense. Markup of 18 to 20 percent is established. So anything more than this percentage should be meant for something else.
 
Last edited:
manufacture then?

Funky Bhai jaan

Sorry my previous answer was very brief. Here are a bit more details. Please read carefully and let me know if you have more questions.

Many in 3rd world are fed lies that their governments want to develop peaceful nuclear energy.

This is all hog wash.

In reality, the whole thing is a charade. The real reason is always a "bumb".

Why?

Nuclear tech is a combination of very high pressure and super high temperature combination of liquids and gasses and solids. In order to safely contain and control all this and convert this super high energy into electric power is a very very complex problem.

It needs high temp high pressure alloys to make containers and filters and pipes.

And these supper alloys and meters and gauges and electrical mechanical controls are only made in few countries in the world.

Oh and even if Pakistan can manufacture these supper alloys and meters and gauges and electical mechanical controls using magic and alladin ka charagh, there is one more challenge to put all these things together to produce electricity in a safe and controlled environment using advanced design engineering. And this too is limited to few countries in the world.

So let me change your question.

you say, Can Pakistan build a space shuttle and send astronauts to mars?

The answer is same as previously

Heck no!
 
Funky Bhai jaan

Sorry my previous answer was very brief. Here are a bit more details. Please read carefully and let me know if you have more questions.

Many in 3rd world are fed lies that their governments want to develop peaceful nuclear energy.

This is all hog wash.

In reality, the whole thing is a charade. The real reason is always a "bumb".

Why?

Nuclear tech is a combination of very high pressure and super high temperature combination of liquids and gasses and solids. In order to safely contain and control all this and convert this super high energy into electric power is a very very complex problem.

It needs high temp high pressure alloys to make containers and filters and pipes.

And these supper alloys and meters and gauges and electrical mechanical controls are only made in few countries in the world.

Oh and even if Pakistan can manufacture these supper alloys and meters and gauges and electical mechanical controls using magic and alladin ka charagh, there is one more challenge to put all these things together to produce electricity in a safe and controlled environment using advanced design engineering. And this too is limited to few countries in the world.

So let me change your question.

you say, Can Pakistan build a space shuttle and send astronauts to mars?

The answer is same as previously

Heck no!
i was just confused reading about our civil nuclear deal with sri lanka... but as i've said i got my answer...
 

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