What's new

Joint India Russia Endeavour - Improved Talwar Class In Russia Navy

PARIKRAMA

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
4,871
Reaction score
185
Country
India
Location
India
Joint India Russia Endeavour - Improved Talwar Class In Russia Navy

Two Modern Guided Missile Ships to Reinforce Russia’s Naval Guard in 2015


The first in the series, the Admiral Grigorovich, is set for at-sea testing at the end of March; the second, the Admiral Essen, is expected to leave dry-dock by the end of the year.

Russia’s latest guided missile ship, the frigate Admiral Grigorovich, is the first in its series and is set for at-sea testing by the end of March.

The ship floated out of Yantar shipyard in Russia’s Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad last year.

1019449208.jpg

Russia’s Navy to be Fully Modernized by 2050, Get Next-Generation Warships

It is the first in a series of six Project 11356 frigates being built for the Black Sea Fleet. The vessels of this project are designed for anti-surface warfare (AsuW), anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-air warfare (AAW) missions, and are capable of conducting missions alone as well as a part of task force.

The Russian Ministry of Defense originally signed two contracts with Yantar Shipyard between 2010 and 2011 for the construction of six Project 11356 frigates.

The keel of the first ship in series, Admiral Grigorovich, was laid down in December 2010 and the vessel was floated out of dry-dock in March 2014.

The second ship, the Admiral Essen, was laid in July 2011 and is set to float out by the end of 2015.

1019440250.jpg

Launch of guard ship 'Admiral Essen' in Kaliningrad

The Admiral Makarov was laid in February 2012; Admiral Butakov was laid in July 2013; and Admiral Istomin was laid down in November 2013.

Later on, one of the projected vessels was cancelled as Russia decided to replace it with a stronger Admiral Gorshkov class frigate, also known as Project 22350. The vessel was laid down on February 1, 2006 at a shipyard in St. Petersburg. It is also due by the end of 2015.

1019449229.jpg

Photo taken on October 29, 2010 shows the Admiral Sergey Gorshkov frigate during a launching ceremony at the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St Petersburg

The five Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates are set to increase the firepower and defensive capabilities of the Black Sea fleet stationed in Crimea exponentially as each of these ships is a formidable force even when it stands alone.

The frigates are armed with an eight-cell launcher for Kalibr and Klub (3M54E) anti-ship and surface-to-surface missiles, which are rightfully feared by the fleets of the world as they are capable of multi-vector attacks at supersonic speeds. The potential aggressors have virtually nothing to intercept them due to their high speed and very low flight attitude. One single hit from such a missile is enough to sink a destroyer or to take out an aircraft carrier during a battle.

The vessel also has a 100-mm main gun, Kashtan gun/missile close-in air defense systems, Shtil vertical-launch air defense missile systems, two torpedo tubes, an anti-submarine rocket system and a Ka-28 or Ka-31 helicopter.

Also, these frigates are able to take on enemy submarines with their 533 mm torpedoes. Additionally, it possesses one RBU-6000 rocket launcher that is used for anti-submarine warfare as well as for coastal bombardments.

The project is based on a joint Indian-Russian endeavor. Namely, six very similar frigates were made for the Indian Navy (Talwar class) and they are amongst the best ships India has. The Russian version is upgraded on several levels and Russia's new frigates can be considered more potent than their Indian counterparts.

The Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate is the first long-range maritime surface vessel to have been projected and built for the Russian Navy in 15 years.

The Russian navy was almost completely ruined during the 1990’s and only a few ships and submarines from its once powerful navy were still operational by the early 2000’s.

As the years passed and NATO expanded its presence to the very borders of Russia, the navy once again became relevant to the country's defense and the Russian state is currently experiencing a real boom in ship building.


Two Modern Guided Missile Ships to Reinforce Russia’s Naval Guard in 2015 / Sputnik International


The new talwar class offered may be very similar to these under construction only with Brahmos replacing Kalibr and AD system of Barak 8/2. Its good to know our Talwar class was so liked by Russian navy that after a hiatus of 15 years, they chose this design for their guided missile ships and further improved on it. Now when we order the next 3, and further augment it with latest israeli tech, we can improve its potency more.
 
.
Hi
Indian Navy still operates 3 decades old Godavari class frigates who are on there last legs. India should consider ordering 3-4 improved Talwar class immediately so that by beginning of 2018 they could replace the old Godavari class as we would not get the 1st improved Shivalikh class before 2021.
Cheers
Thanks
 
.
Joint India Russia Endeavour - Improved Talwar Class In Russia Navy

Two Modern Guided Missile Ships to Reinforce Russia’s Naval Guard in 2015


The first in the series, the Admiral Grigorovich, is set for at-sea testing at the end of March; the second, the Admiral Essen, is expected to leave dry-dock by the end of the year.

Russia’s latest guided missile ship, the frigate Admiral Grigorovich, is the first in its series and is set for at-sea testing by the end of March.

The ship floated out of Yantar shipyard in Russia’s Baltic exclave of Kaliningrad last year.

1019449208.jpg

Russia’s Navy to be Fully Modernized by 2050, Get Next-Generation Warships

It is the first in a series of six Project 11356 frigates being built for the Black Sea Fleet. The vessels of this project are designed for anti-surface warfare (AsuW), anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-air warfare (AAW) missions, and are capable of conducting missions alone as well as a part of task force.

The Russian Ministry of Defense originally signed two contracts with Yantar Shipyard between 2010 and 2011 for the construction of six Project 11356 frigates.

The keel of the first ship in series, Admiral Grigorovich, was laid down in December 2010 and the vessel was floated out of dry-dock in March 2014.

The second ship, the Admiral Essen, was laid in July 2011 and is set to float out by the end of 2015.

1019440250.jpg

Launch of guard ship 'Admiral Essen' in Kaliningrad

The Admiral Makarov was laid in February 2012; Admiral Butakov was laid in July 2013; and Admiral Istomin was laid down in November 2013.

Later on, one of the projected vessels was cancelled as Russia decided to replace it with a stronger Admiral Gorshkov class frigate, also known as Project 22350. The vessel was laid down on February 1, 2006 at a shipyard in St. Petersburg. It is also due by the end of 2015.

1019449229.jpg

Photo taken on October 29, 2010 shows the Admiral Sergey Gorshkov frigate during a launching ceremony at the Severnaya Verf shipyard in St Petersburg

The five Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates are set to increase the firepower and defensive capabilities of the Black Sea fleet stationed in Crimea exponentially as each of these ships is a formidable force even when it stands alone.

The frigates are armed with an eight-cell launcher for Kalibr and Klub (3M54E) anti-ship and surface-to-surface missiles, which are rightfully feared by the fleets of the world as they are capable of multi-vector attacks at supersonic speeds. The potential aggressors have virtually nothing to intercept them due to their high speed and very low flight attitude. One single hit from such a missile is enough to sink a destroyer or to take out an aircraft carrier during a battle.

The vessel also has a 100-mm main gun, Kashtan gun/missile close-in air defense systems, Shtil vertical-launch air defense missile systems, two torpedo tubes, an anti-submarine rocket system and a Ka-28 or Ka-31 helicopter.

Also, these frigates are able to take on enemy submarines with their 533 mm torpedoes. Additionally, it possesses one RBU-6000 rocket launcher that is used for anti-submarine warfare as well as for coastal bombardments.

The project is based on a joint Indian-Russian endeavor. Namely, six very similar frigates were made for the Indian Navy (Talwar class) and they are amongst the best ships India has. The Russian version is upgraded on several levels and Russia's new frigates can be considered more potent than their Indian counterparts.

The Admiral Gorshkov-class frigate is the first long-range maritime surface vessel to have been projected and built for the Russian Navy in 15 years.

The Russian navy was almost completely ruined during the 1990’s and only a few ships and submarines from its once powerful navy were still operational by the early 2000’s.

As the years passed and NATO expanded its presence to the very borders of Russia, the navy once again became relevant to the country's defense and the Russian state is currently experiencing a real boom in ship building.


Two Modern Guided Missile Ships to Reinforce Russia’s Naval Guard in 2015 / Sputnik International


The new talwar class offered may be very similar to these under construction only with Brahmos replacing Kalibr and AD system of Barak 8/2. Its good to know our Talwar class was so liked by Russian navy that after a hiatus of 15 years, they chose this design for their guided missile ships and further improved on it. Now when we order the next 3, and further augment it with latest israeli tech, we can improve its potency more.

Better to build at home we have sufficient capability & capacity at home
 
.
Better to build at home we have sufficient capability & capacity at home
Hi
Sir, what is your opinion on the oldest 3 Godavari class frigates of IN, Can they sustain themselves till 2021, when we can expect the first improved Shivalikh? I personally don't as INS Ganga had some problems last year. wouldn't it be good if we order 3 Improved Talwar as they would most likely start coming by 2018.
Cheers
Thanks
 
.
Hi
Sir, what is your opinion on the oldest 3 Godavari class frigates of IN, Can they sustain themselves till 2021, when we can expect the first improved Shivalikh? I personally don't as INS Ganga had some problems last year. wouldn't it be good if we order 3 Improved Talwar as they would most likely start coming by 2018.
Cheers
Thanks

I understand that we need to replace those frigates but why not order from Pvt Indian shipyards who have both the capacity & capability to build such vessels rather than order it from Russia
The money will stay in India & will help Indian Defenese industry to grow
Aur Bhai college Mein hu abhi Sir na Bol muje
 
.
Hi
I understand that we need to replace those frigates but why not order from Pvt Indian shipyards who have both the capacity & capability to build such vessels rather than order it from Russia
The money will stay in India & will help Indian Defenese industry to grow
Aur Bhai college Mein hu abhi Sir na Bol muje
Hi
I am pro for this measure, if we can start building Talwar class frigates in India, it would be very good. But then again shipyards like HSL or ABG who are not fully booked will not be able to deliver them before 2020 which kills the sole purpose behind this proposed deal, I.e. to get 3-4 advanced ships very quickly and to increase our capability. And I am still in class 12th, so calling you sir is justified .
Cheers
Thanks
 
.
Hi

Hi
I am pro for this measure, if we can start building Talwar class frigates in India, it would be very good. But then again shipyards like HSL or ABG who are not fully booked will not be able to deliver them before 2020 which kills the sole purpose behind this proposed deal, I.e. to get 3-4 advanced ships very quickly and to increase our capability. And I am still in class 12th, so calling you sir is justified .
Cheers
Thanks

L&T shipyard in Chennai & Pipav have the capability & have the capacity & they can deliver on time so that option can also be pursued
 
.
L&T shipyard in Chennai & Pipav have the capability & have the capacity & they can deliver on time so that option can also be pursued

That's a very simplistic view of ground realities. Fact is,we (Directorate of Naval Design) does not have an indigenous FFG design in the range of the Krivaks, i.e. 4000-4200 tons.

This means either we produce more samples of P-17, or design a new 4000 ton FFG. If one wants to go for the P-17s, the logical option would be to get them constructed at the Public Shipyard where the original ones were built. But then that would delay the P-17A's, which form a higher priority for the IN.

The other option of going for an indigenous design would cause a delay of at least 24/36 months while DND comes up with a design. You could also go with modified P-28s, but even that would cause a delay of 12/18 months for the redesign.

In short, none of the indigenous options are palatable for the Navy. And besides, our money went into developing the Yantar Shipyard, so why should be not use their facilities? That would be a wastage of our previous investments.
 
.
That's a very simplistic view of ground realities. Fact is,we (Directorate of Naval Design) does not have an indigenous FFG design in the range of the Krivaks, i.e. 4000-4200 tons.

This means either we produce more samples of P-17, or design a new 4000 ton FFG. If one wants to go for the P-17s, the logical option would be to get them constructed at the Public Shipyard where the original ones were built. But then that would delay the P-17A's, which form a higher priority for the IN.

The other option of going for an indigenous design would cause a delay of at least 24/36 months while DND comes up with a design. You could also go with modified P-28s, but even that would cause a delay of 12/18 months for the redesign.

In short, none of the indigenous options are palatable for the Navy. And besides, our money went into developing the Yantar Shipyard, so why should be not use their facilities? That would be a wastage of our previous investments.

Then why not build them at home with Russian Assistance
 
.
Then why not build them at home with Russian Assistance
Hi
I might be wrong but I don't think that the Russians who are presently facing a severe economic crunch would want to loose out on some million dollars and hundreds of jobs. But I wish government of India works through this deal and get a compromise on 2-2 modal, I.e 2 being quickly supplied by Yantar shipyard and other 2 been built in an Indian shipyard with TOT like Gsl or L&T who can further build some more in future to replace the Brahmaputra class in future when they end there service. I haven't counted p17s as a replacement as they are pure destroyers( by NATO or Chinese standards) and they might not be able to deliver a cost effective role of a true Frigate. I would like to be corrected if wrong.
Cheers
Thanks
 
.
Hi
I might be wrong but I don't think that the Russians who are presently facing a severe economic crunch would want to loose out on some million dollars and hundreds of jobs. But I wish government of India works through this deal and get a compromise on 2-2 modal, I.e 2 being quickly supplied by Yantar shipyard and other 2 been built in an Indian shipyard with TOT like Gsl or L&T who can further build some more in future to replace the Brahmaputra class in future when they end there service. I haven't counted p17s as a replacement as they are pure destroyers( by NATO or Chinese standards) and they might not be able to deliver a cost effective role of a true Frigate. I would like to be corrected if wrong.
Cheers
Thanks
Hi
I might be wrong but I don't think that the Russians who are presently facing a severe economic crunch would want to loose out on some million dollars and hundreds of jobs. But I wish government of India works through this deal and get a compromise on 2-2 modal, I.e 2 being quickly supplied by Yantar shipyard and other 2 been built in an Indian shipyard with TOT like Gsl or L&T who can further build some more in future to replace the Brahmaputra class in future when they end there service. I haven't counted p17s as a replacement as they are pure destroyers( by NATO or Chinese standards) and they might not be able to deliver a cost effective role of a true Frigate. I would like to be corrected if wrong.
Cheers
Thanks

I think the 2&2 formula is a good one & can be used to do the job
 
.
Then why not build them at home with Russian Assistance

It wouldn't be worth it. ToT and license building would have jacked up the costs, and even then key components would have to be imported. Further, technology absorption and training of Indian engineers would have consumed a lot of time. And all that for mere 3-4 vessels. Finally, you'd have ended up with improved Krivaks at the price of a Shivalik. Not exactly value for money, is it?

Even I would prefer a better solution, but unfortunately, there is none which could be implemented without loss of money and/or time.

But anyways,Frigates aside, there should be a next iteration of P15B in the works, given the Navy's plans to ensure continuous prodcution of classes of warships
 
.
It will be unwise to build there anywhere except yantar..Why ?? Well bcoz we have spent a fortune and time training the crew over there to build these beauties. And now just to builds few of them, why invest again at a local shipyard ?? Had we needed about 8 or 10 of them then it would be wise to invest here. Also it seems the good shipyards which have means to build them have very crowded books.
 
.
It wouldn't be worth it. ToT and license building would have jacked up the costs, and even then key components would have to be imported. Further, technology absorption and training of Indian engineers would have consumed a lot of time. And all that for mere 3-4 vessels. Finally, you'd have ended up with improved Krivaks at the price of a Shivalik. Not exactly value for money, is it?

Even I would prefer a better solution, but unfortunately, there is none which could be implemented without loss of money and/or time.

But anyways,Frigates aside, there should be a next iteration of P15B in the works, given the Navy's plans to ensure continuous prodcution of classes of warships

Then looks like we have to order them
From Russia
 
.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom