JF-17B Updates, News & Discussion

[Jungibaaz]

I left in 2005-6.
These are young enthusiastic kids.

Welcome back. On the subject of WS-13 in previous pages (PAF’s commitment to RD-93 not withstanding)... I was curious to know how you’d rate Chinese turbofans these days compared to their Western and Russian counterparts? Seems more likely than not that we’ll be operating them one way or another in the coming years.

WS-10 seems to have gone through multiple iterations, and now the PLAAF seem confident enough to have the B version operational on single engine fighters like the J-10C.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Any pictures available of the crashed plane and anyone know the serial number?

Only 1 aircraft has crashed from Block-1 while 3 have now crashed from Block-2.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Any pictures available of the crashed plane and anyone know the serial number?

Only 1 aircraft has crashed from Block-1 while 3 have now crashed from Block-2.

Increase in flight hours and training may have played a part, but with one of them being bird strike and another probable pilot error (I may be wrong on that one but I did hear that), I don’t think the jet is to blame.

 

[SQ8]

Bird Strikes are capable of bringing aircraft down but the predominant cause of it is engine failure due to ingestion. However, that doesn’t mean a flock of birds cannot cause enough chaos (depending upon variables such as speed of aircraft, weight of bird and point of impact) that may lead to enough damage that the pilots choose to leave the aircraft instead of trying to save it.

From a publication https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1000936114000892

“The point of impact is usually any forward-facing edge of the vehicle such as a wing leading edge, nose cone, jet engine cowling or engine inlet. Therefore, the international certification regulations require all forward facing components to prove a certain level of bird strike resistance before they can be employed in an aircraft”

So strike resistance is a requirement for most modern airframes - but if turns out to be a flock of tiny birds that could slip through the dsi then only one is required to result in non-graceful degradation of the RD-93.

But it is all just speculation and the pilot report will entail what really happened.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[messiach]

First issue, is it reliable & efficient - meaning the manufacturing process is reliable everytime to submicron level upto ISO 9004-2010. Second issue - efficiency interms of theoratical gross thrust vs net available thrust. They are better than russian engines and at power with P&W.

Welcome back. On the subject of WS-13 in previous pages (PAF’s commitment to RD-93 not withstanding)... I was curious to know how you’d rate Chinese turbofans these days compared to their Western and Russian counterparts? Seems more likely than not that we’ll be operating them one way or another in the coming years.

WS-10 seems to have gone through multiple iterations, and now the PLAAF seem confident enough to have the B version operational on single engine fighters like the J-10C.

 

[messiach]

I have answered this Q elsewhere. Modern TFs are expensive - there are inbuilt mechanism to minimise damage due bird strike. Among several solutions one is to divert inlet air through bypass ducts avoiding core. Any kind of strike can take down a turbofan - the aim is to maximise survival by saving core. So it is obvious developers will spend a lot of time to design solutions minimizing impact of foreign object at inlets. This is the case with FC1.

The engine is the heart without that the body is dead.

 

[DrWatson775]

First issue, is it reliable & efficient - meaning the manufacturing process is reliable everytime to submicron level upto ISO 9004-2010. Second issue - efficiency interms of theoratical gross thrust vs net available thrust. They are better than russian engines and at power with P&W.

Would the Chinese be open to at least some sub assembly of their engines at PAC and is there any specific reason why PAF prefers Russian RD over Chinese variants for JF17? Thanks

 

[messiach]

No, they are not open.
As per original blueprint all blocks of FC1 would carry russian engines.

Would the Chinese be open to at least some sub assembly of their engines at PAC and is there any specific reason why PAF prefers Russian RD over Chinese variants for JF17? Thanks

 

[MastanKhan]

Would the Chinese be open to at least some sub assembly of their engines at PAC and is there any specific reason why PAF prefers Russian RD over Chinese variants for JF17? Thanks

Hi,

Time tested RELIABLE, RELIABLE, RELIABLE, Integrated, familiar, ease of service

 

[air marshal]

BRAVO (20-626)

 

[Tank131]

Would the Chinese be open to at least some sub assembly of their engines at PAC and is there any specific reason why PAF prefers Russian RD over Chinese variants for JF17? Thanks

Hi,

Time tested RELIABLE, RELIABLE, RELIABLE, Integrated, familiar, ease of service

More than anything, I think they are available. Well tested and known commodities. Ws-13 is a brand new engine that operates in no production aircraft at this time. There is a well known saying in medicine... Never be the first or last person to try something. With something so critical, i think even if the chinese engine on paper is more reliable and more powerful, it may be too great a risk for PAF at this time. Plus, it keeps a large on ongoing contract with russia running, and such things are often a basis for future programs.

 

[Dazzler]

BRAVO (20-626)

That's a 3B.
Notice longer wingtips that can fire pl10es, wing structure similar to 3A, MAWS housing is different, EW sensor housing at the tips of horizontal wings.

 

[RAMPAGE]

That's a 3B.
Notice longer wingtips that can fire pl10es, wing structure similar to 3A, MAWS housing is different, EW sensor housing at the tips of horizontal wings.

No LO nose?

 

[iLION12345_1]

That's a 3B.
Notice longer wingtips that can fire pl10es, wing structure similar to 3A, MAWS housing is different, EW sensor housing at the tips of horizontal wings.

Interestingly the extra MAWS sensors are on the top of the intake rather than on the sides, facing forward. Unless those are something else and it doesn’t have the Added MAWS sensors at the size, the ones at the back however are definitely the newer ones.