JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Irfan Baloch]

These are the exact reasons why JF-17 won't sell.
JF-17 marketing team is promoting the same aspects that killed F20 Tigershark.
PAF is trying to sell what they think is the value proposition of this product, customers buy what they think is the perceived value of the product. PAF has to align its promotion with the customer's perceived value of a fighter jet.

[/QUOTE]
this is exceptionally relevant video as a hard learning in relation to the marketing of the JF-17 which is painfully flawed and has some very criminally insane pitch lines like "cheap", "affordable", 3 JF-17s for a western Jet etc.
people who have come up with such promotional pitch must be lined up and whipped until their behinds turn blue.

when it comes to the buyers of modern jet fighters, the seller has to understand that he should only market and pitch top end quality, high tech design and performance and absolute perfection exceeding expectations.

you never see Swiss watchmakers pitching affordability and cheapness their customers would run away for miles if a luxury item is sold cheap. price shouldn't even have a mention it should be an afterthought.
there is no chance that PAC will have a change of heart. from the pilots flying these jets in the airshows to the civilians at the JF17 counters in exhibitions with marketing material and the air chiefs and program directors start and finish mentioning how cheap and cost effective this jet is. the reasoning is that not every country can afford the western jets so its a cheap alternative. the problem is that it leaves very few countries , you pretty much rule out the entire middle eastern countries and the remaining countries that are left then cant buy more than a squadron and they too are looking for further discounts.

 

[araz]

this is exceptionally relevant video as a hard learning in relation to the marketing of the JF-17 which is painfully flawed and has some very criminally insane pitch lines like "cheap", "affordable", 3 JF-17s for a western Jet etc.
people who have come up with such promotional pitch must be lined up and whipped until their behinds turn blue.

when it comes to the buyers of modern jet fighters, the seller has to understand that he should only market and pitch top end quality, high tech design and performance and absolute perfection exceeding expectations.

you never see Swiss watchmakers pitching affordability and cheapness their customers would run away for miles if a luxury item is sold cheap. price shouldn't even have a mention it should be an afterthought.
there is no chance that PAC will have a change of heart. from the pilots flying these jets in the airshows to the civilians at the JF17 counters in exhibitions with marketing material and the air chiefs and program directors start and finish mentioning how cheap and cost effective this jet is. the reasoning is that not every country can afford the western jets so its a cheap alternative. the problem is that it leaves very few countries , you pretty much rule out the entire middle eastern countries and the remaining countries that are left then cant buy more than a squadron and they too are looking for further discounts.[/QUOTE]
Yaara IB.
The lalas of middle east will not buy JFT even if its controls were studded with diamonds. They will be forced/cajoled/coerced into buying western
by the hands that control them. In many ways it is open blackmail that goes on. If you assess the situation the Saudis, and the UAE will not be able to defend themselves in case of war. For UAE the area is so small it can become a limitation by itself. For Saudis it maybe a question of the sheer will to engage in a war. One of my colleagues used to work for the Saudi Royals in the late 80s and a part of the entourage of King Khalid. He would always laugh and say the Sheikhs would boast"wallah we will fight to the last Pakistani". I am happy to be contradicted but this remains their modus operandi to date. I see they have mostly relied on air power to maul the Yemenis but their record on the ground has not particularly been good.
Back to JFT, I think we are stepping into an arena where the big boys operate and cannotcompete. Our market remains the fringes in Africa and parts of Asia where the Western powers do not want to step in. Since theRussians have opted to go twin engined most of these countries need a single engined fighter. For these countries finance matters as well as affordability.
I do agreecwe should now be highlighting the sophistication and the state of the-art software and hardware,netcentricity and ability to work in a corodinated manner with other assets, but whether this is relevant to the countries buying the Thunder is a point we should all consider. I would fully agree with you that there should be a proper marketing team of professionals to advertize and show off the plane. However what needs to be projected where is something we can differ on.
A

 

[Irfan Baloch]

this is exceptionally relevant video as a hard learning in relation to the marketing of the JF-17 which is painfully flawed and has some very criminally insane pitch lines like "cheap", "affordable", 3 JF-17s for a western Jet etc.
people who have come up with such promotional pitch must be lined up and whipped until their behinds turn blue.

when it comes to the buyers of modern jet fighters, the seller has to understand that he should only market and pitch top end quality, high tech design and performance and absolute perfection exceeding expectations.

you never see Swiss watchmakers pitching affordability and cheapness their customers would run away for miles if a luxury item is sold cheap. price shouldn't even have a mention it should be an afterthought.
there is no chance that PAC will have a change of heart. from the pilots flying these jets in the airshows to the civilians at the JF17 counters in exhibitions with marketing material and the air chiefs and program directors start and finish mentioning how cheap and cost effective this jet is. the reasoning is that not every country can afford the western jets so its a cheap alternative. the problem is that it leaves very few countries , you pretty much rule out the entire middle eastern countries and the remaining countries that are left then cant buy more than a squadron and they too are looking for further discounts.

Yaara IB.
The lalas of middle east will not buy JFT even if its controls were studded with diamonds. They will be forced/cajoled/coerced into buying western
by the hands that control them. In many ways it is open blackmail that goes on. If you assess the situation the Saudis, and the UAE will not be able to defend themselves in case of war. For UAE the area is so small it can become a limitation by itself. For Saudis it maybe a question of the sheer will to engage in a war. One of my colleagues used to work for the Saudi Royals in the late 80s and a part of the entourage of King Khalid. He would always laugh and say the Sheikhs would boast"wallah we will fight to the last Pakistani". I am happy to be contradicted but this remains their modus operandi to date. I see they have mostly relied on air power to maul the Yemenis but their record on the ground has not particularly been good.
Back to JFT, I think we are stepping into an arena where the big boys operate and cannotcompete. Our market remains the fringes in Africa and parts of Asia where the Western powers do not want to step in. Since theRussians have opted to go twin engined most of these countries need a single engined fighter. For these countries finance matters as well as affordability.
I do agreecwe should now be highlighting the sophistication and the state of the-art software and hardware,netcentricity and ability to work in a corodinated manner with other assets, but whether this is relevant to the countries buying the Thunder is a point we should all consider. I would fully agree with you that there should be a proper marketing team of professionals to advertize and show off the plane. However what needs to be projected where is something we can differ on.
A[/QUOTE]
I am very much mindful that its big boy arena. we will be mauled here by the western companies. Americans become so protective that they would sabotage the industries of their fellow western allies as well (reference Canadian / British aeronautical industry). I am aware that Arab Sheikhs wont be allowed to spend on Pakistan jet like they are made to do on British, American and French jets but I am only looking at few units like Myanmar that might escape the watchful radar of the Yankees.

 

[BATMAN]

Buying weapons is matter of trust more than it's price.

Pakistan failed to earn that trust because of THE mafia, who is in cahoots with mullas of Iran. It's the same mafia who exported Pakistan's missile and nuclear program to Iran.
As i have always said, this gang has hurt Pakistan far more than India and Iran united can hurt Pakistan. We can't put a monetary value to the losses Pakistan has incurred and the profits which we lost to other states.

If GCC can provide $billions of free fund to Imran Khan, and billions to fund our nuclear program, help negotiate purchase of F-16, pay for Erieye, they can as well buy weapons from us*.

GCC had good relations with Pakistan during Musharraf rule and they had shown interests in jF-17, but than it was Zardari mafia, who destroyed it all.

Foreign policy should be designed to cater national interest, but how Pakistani diplomats were appointed all across the globe by Zardari, immediately after assuming power, shows Pakistan is puppeteered by the enemies of Pakistan. Rest is all history.

Hypocrisy of analyst cum propagandist is ever clear, while they jump to sky when Pakistan's retired soldiers take up a job in GCC or apply for NOC, but in same breath they raise objection on GCC buying US defense equipment.

jF-17 is a light weight fighter, GCC don't have a requirement for it, specially the comparatively less loitering time, payload and lack of B version.
Now blk3 has more fuel pockets created in it, may be one extra HP somewhere at fuselage, but still comparing it with F-16 blk70 is a bit over stretch. It's not the specs. that always matter, it's also the construction process and quality control.
Bottom line, with all it's super specs. and comprehensive weapon package, jF-17 is a poor man's F-16.

 

[araz]

Buying weapons is matter of trust more than it's price.

Pakistan failed to earn that trust because of THE mafia, who is in cahoots with mullas of Iran. It's the same mafia who exported Pakistan's missile and nuclear program to Iran.
As i have always said, this gang has hurt Pakistan far more than India and Iran united can hurt Pakistan. We can't put a monetary value to the losses Pakistan has incurred and the profits which we lost to other states.

If GCC can provide $billions of free fund to Imran Khan, and billions to fund our nuclear program, help negotiate purchase of F-16, pay for Erieye, they can as well buy weapons from us*.

GCC had good relations with Pakistan during Musharraf rule and they had shown interests in jF-17, but than it was Zardari mafia, who destroyed it all.

Foreign policy should be designed to cater national interest, but how Pakistani diplomats were appointed all across the globe by Zardari, immediately after assuming power, shows Pakistan is puppeteered by the enemies of Pakistan. Rest is all history.

Hypocrisy of analyst cum propagandist is ever clear, while they jump to sky when Pakistan's retired soldiers take up a job in GCC or apply for NOC, but in same breath they raise objection on GCC buying US defense equipment.

jF-17 is a light weight fighter, GCC don't have a requirement for it, specially the comparatively less loitering time, payload and lack of B version.
Now blk3 has more fuel pockets created in it, may be one extra HP somewhere at fuselage, but still comparing it with F-16 blk70 is a bit over stretch. It's not the specs. that always matter, it's also the construction process and quality control.
Bottom line, with all it's super specs. and comprehensive weapon package, jF-17 is a poor man's F-16.

Buying arms is a blackmail instituted by big boys to control the policies of little countries. Even China with its huge exposure to arms trade finds it difficult to sell big ticket items to the middle East whereas the US and UK get billions out of the Sheikhdoms. We on the other hand have sold a few Super Mashaqs to the sheikhdoms but nothing of substance and to be frank we may not be allowed to enter these markets.
Also a correction if I may. We were very nonbiased in who we sold Nuke equipment to. We sold to Iran and Libya. So we did not selectively sell to the Ayatullahs only. So your point about distorted middle eastern relations on account of Nuke items sold to the Ayatullahs is on a very weak footing.
The Sheikhs now have a very ambitious view of the middle east and I think Pakistan is increasingly being marginalized in this view on account of their business interests in India. This again is our foolishness as we have shafted them in their investments in Pakistan in the late 70s and 80s. I am sure if these investments had paid dividends we would have had a lot more coming our way.
A

 

[PakFactor]

Buying weapons is matter of trust more than it's price.

Pakistan failed to earn that trust because of THE mafia, who is in cahoots with mullas of Iran. It's the same mafia who exported Pakistan's missile and nuclear program to Iran.
As i have always said, this gang has hurt Pakistan far more than India and Iran united can hurt Pakistan. We can't put a monetary value to the losses Pakistan has incurred and the profits which we lost to other states.

If GCC can provide $billions of free fund to Imran Khan, and billions to fund our nuclear program, help negotiate purchase of F-16, pay for Erieye, they can as well buy weapons from us*.

GCC had good relations with Pakistan during Musharraf rule and they had shown interests in jF-17, but than it was Zardari mafia, who destroyed it all.

Foreign policy should be designed to cater national interest, but how Pakistani diplomats were appointed all across the globe by Zardari, immediately after assuming power, shows Pakistan is puppeteered by the enemies of Pakistan. Rest is all history.

Hypocrisy of analyst cum propagandist is ever clear, while they jump to sky when Pakistan's retired soldiers take up a job in GCC or apply for NOC, but in same breath they raise objection on GCC buying US defense equipment.

jF-17 is a light weight fighter, GCC don't have a requirement for it, specially the comparatively less loitering time, payload and lack of B version.
Now blk3 has more fuel pockets created in it, may be one extra HP somewhere at fuselage, but still comparing it with F-16 blk70 is a bit over stretch. It's not the specs. that always matter, it's also the construction process and quality control.
Bottom line, with all it's super specs. and comprehensive weapon package, jF-17 is a poor man's F-16.

Garbage what you wrote. The GCC are known to fund Balochistan Terrorist organizations to destabilize Pakistan in the past and present and it’s started since Pakistan joined CPEC Gwadar Project and all. Have family in the military stationed in Gujranwala and else where and it’s commonly known among the higher ranks but we have chaprasis running the governments since before Mushraff who are ball less to do anything. Their are many reasons that Pak Officers decided to stay away from helping these Sheikhdoms as they are known to stab people in the back easily.

 

[Hassan Nawaz]

stop trying man...those fake ms-paint pics are a joke...as I said...we already have abhi-none-done's unfired missiles so you're pics from the blinded awacs have already been exposed as fake many times over by (as you put it) "any analyist worth is salt". and stop pretending to be an american, your indian butthurt is showing through...

Leave this dude alone with his childish claims.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

 

[nomi007]

Watch from
11:25

 

[DrWatson775]

the IAF is under no obligation to release any footage, especially nothing that reveals the level of electronic gathering that is possible. It is classified for a reason, which is obviously beyond your level of knowledge. Any analyst worth his salt would know what all info would be released if a video of everything that the AWACS captured electronically is released.

It's ok, you can live in your own bubble.

Works both ways. MS paint is enough evidence for shooting down an F16? Why hasnt Abhinandan claimed it himself and why did he not speak and claim it during IAF's public get together with the media where foreign journalists were also invited. Bombs landed in your military garrisons and what did IAF do to respond to that? Hold an AMRAAM piece to complain but no military reaponse? Just some points a wise person would ponder.

Back to the topic. Considering where PAF was in the early 2000s, JF17 has given PAF a BVR capable platform with the capability of anti-ship, SEAD/DEAD as well as CAS and strike missions.

JF17 has come a long way and its use in Swift Retort both in the role of offensive counter-air as well as a strike platform against the likes of M2000 and SU30s speaks volumes.

 

[air marshal]

https://www.falcons.pk/photo/JF-17-Thunder/2023

 

[mshan44]

 

[My-Analogous]

Any updates on JF17 block 3 deliveries ?

 

[CHI RULES]

Any updates on JF17 block 3 deliveries ?

As mentioned perhaps in first quarter of 2021 till then the new gadgets shall be tested, instead of theoretical discussions the knowledgeable members should start discussion regarding the expected tech apart from KLJ7A i.e Chinese, Italian or Spanish. As one member mentioned here that on board oxygen generation system is available on block-II meanwhile nothing has been mentioned any where about this system.

Buying arms is a blackmail instituted by big boys to control the policies of little countries. Even China with its huge exposure to arms trade finds it difficult to sell big ticket items to the middle East whereas the US and UK get billions out of the Sheikhdoms. We on the other hand have sold a few Super Mashaqs to the sheikhdoms but nothing of substance and to be frank we may not be allowed to enter these markets.
Also a correction if I may. We were very nonbiased in who we sold Nuke equipment to. We sold to Iran and Libya. So we did not selectively sell to the Ayatullahs only. So your point about distorted middle eastern relations on account of Nuke items sold to the Ayatullahs is on a very weak footing.
The Sheikhs now have a very ambitious view of the middle east and I think Pakistan is increasingly being marginalized in this view on account of their business interests in India. This again is our foolishness as we have shafted them in their investments in Pakistan in the late 70s and 80s. I am sure if these investments had paid dividends we would have had a lot more coming our way.
A

Sir Sheikhs are like a cow which can give milk as per expertise of a milk man we unable to milk them like USA or others did. Egypt got foreign debt waivers during Gulf war and still getting heavy financial benefits from Arabs meanwhile Pakistan despite providing them labor force to personal protection and even safety of KSA in shape of strategist like Raheel Sharif yet not getting return like others. May be flaws are within us we have yet to even reap benefits of Afghan reconciliation just lik Zia got in shape of F16s meanwhile presently so far even ordered Bell AH-1Z Viper or T129 engines supply looks to be impossible. The foreign ministry of Pakistan is under performing even under experienced FM like Shah Mehmood Qureshi Sb.

 

[Maxpane]

As mentioned perhaps in first quarter of 2021 till then the new gadgets shall be tested, instead of theoretical discussions the knowledgeable members should start discussion regarding the expected tech apart from KLJ7A i.e Chinese, Italian or Spanish. As one member mentioned here that on board oxygen generation system is available on block-II meanwhile nothing has been mentioned any where about this system.



Sir Sheikhs are like a cow which can give milk as per expertise of a milk man we unable to milk them like USA or others did. Egypt got foreign debt waivers during Gulf war and still getting heavy financial benefits from Arabs meanwhile Pakistan despite providing them labor force to personal protection and even safety of KSA in shape of strategist like Raheel Sharif yet not getting return like others. May be flaws are within us we have yet to even reap benefits of Afghan reconciliation just lik Zia got in shape of F16s meanwhile presently so far even ordered Bell AH-1Z Viper or T129 engines supply looks to be impossible. The foreign ministry of Pakistan is under performing even under experienced FM like Shah Mehmood Qureshi Sb.

sir is paf using oxygen generated system instead of oxygen cylinders?