JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Pak47]

Yes thats what i am hoping too!
hopefully PT-06 will be BLK-2 so we would atleast have a BVR missile other than AMRAAM.

I doubt Pt-06 is blk-2, for it doesn't have in flight refueling probes.
Pt-06 is the Fc-1, while we are looking toward Jf-17 Blk 2.

I see blk 2 looking something like this.

Notice the IFRP to the pilots right.


As far as BVR block 1 is capable of firing the Sd-10.. i doubt its capable of firing American AMRAAM's

 

[TAC]

PShamim Sahib thanks for respecting me.

I don't beleive Russia will dump India. But I do beleive India is dumping Russia. Look at their lattest deal. Rafale and Appachies and I think it is going to hurt Russian defense industry. Opportunities like Putins visit don't come along often. We need to jump on it.

I think you need a reality check. Is the Mig 29 upgrade deal, 100's of SU-30's, joint PAKFA also proof of India ' dumping' Russia? Just because Putin may come to Pakistan does not mean he will suddenly hand over anything they want. How many SU's can PAF afford? 36 odd on soft loans? compare that to India buying 100'S with hard cash.

The JF-17 is possibly the best thing that has ever happened to the PAF. The project is doing exactly what was intended which is all credit to PAF leadership and vision together with due gratitude to China. China not Russia is the solution for future high end requirements.

 

[Farooqi1]

sir, you need to be smart, $10-12B is insanity and foolishness, you want to play, play it good instead of 126 fighter get technologically superior in good numbers not necessarily in huge numbers, block something to your opponent needs, so that They are unable to procure it. Point is and always will be had you procured 36 Rafales, It would have been out of mrca and so JFT 2-3 squadrons would have been equipped with French Technologies...blow to your opponent, Highly capable Rafale teamed up with force multiplier JFT and relative better equipment, that mrca would have become a Trash.

There is no such thing as economic fighter, the technology is going further and faster you need to compete with it or you lose it all, what is MLU? that is what JFT would be getting in Years to come and gone are the days of MLU after 10 Years it would be in short span to keep up with technology-opponents, the cost will go up and you'll spend more, in the west their psyche they build something 10 years ahead.

Yar

You talk to these people. Every body is getting so emotional about JFT. I never said any thing about JFT other then its capabilities and I was quoting some one else. Let there be no doubt that JFT has given us what we did not have. Experience in aviation that would help us 20 or 30 year down the road. But also In my illiterate opinion we are expecting too much out of it and we are risking our defense. Question is what should we do now? We are way behind in technology and capability in terms of our air defense.

I 100% agree with you about Rafale and we should have invested in it and JFT would have french avionics too. Well we can't turn the clock back on but we can do one thing is to make sensible decision now. We need to have in my opinion on an emergency bases something like SU 30 or SU 27. At least some of them (36) at least. I would love to have Typhoon but $125 million a pop is too much.

 

[Farooqi1]

I think you need a reality check. Is the Mig 29 upgrade deal, 100's of SU-30's, joint PAKFA also proof of India ' dumping' Russia? Just because Putin may come to Pakistan does not mean he will suddenly hand over anything they want. How many SU's can PAF afford? 36 odd on soft loans? compare that to India buying 100'S with hard cash.

The JF-17 is possibly the best thing that has ever happened to the PAF. The project is doing exactly what was intended which is all credit to PAF leadership and vision together with due gratitude to China. China not Russia is the solution for future high end requirements.

How come they did not go with Russian MMRCA choice? You all are expecting too much out of JFT. How come PLAAF so far has no plans to induct it? And please don't give me this bull that it does not fit to their requirement. Their requirement is how to deal with SU 30 MKI and Rafale. Yes JFT is the best thing in terms of experience in aviation and other things. Please have a realty check your self. You are going to deal with Mirage 2000, Mig 29, SU 30 MKI and Rafale.

One hand every one is saying that we did the good thing in getting ZDK 03 and Saab because we don't want to rely on any one country and on the other hand you are suggesting that China is the only solution. And yes China is a trust worthy friend only to the extent of if we fit in their grand scheme of things. We got to show them that we can take care of ourselves by having some modern planes so that if the time would come we could stand by them. And what is wrong in having an additional friend in the form of Russia.

Now having said all of that I just want to say that we all are friends and just having a debate and we all love Pakistan, its people and armed forces. We don't want to start a war with any country but at same time we want to have a best possible practical defense. We may not agree with each other but I believe everybody in this forum discussing about his and her view for the best of our common motherland.

 

[Donatello]

How come they did not go with Russian MMRCA choice? You all are expecting too much out of JFT. How come PLAAF so far has no plans to induct it? And please don't give me this bull that it does not fit to their requirement. Their requirement is how to deal with SU 30 MKI and Rafale. Yes JFT is the best thing in terms of experience in aviation and other things. Please have a realty check your self. You are going to deal with Mirage 2000, Mig 29, SU 30 MKI and Rafale.

one place every one is saying that we did the good thing in getting ZDK 03 and Saab because we don't want to rely on any one country and on the other hand you are suggesting that China is the only solution. And yes China is a trust worthy friend only to the extent of we fit in their grand scheme of things. what is wrong in having an additional friend in the form of Russia.

Now having said all of that I just want to say that we are just having a debate and we all love Pakistan. We don't want to start a war or with any country but we want to have a best possible practical defense.

Farooqi,

This topic has been discussed to death. Please visit the earlier threads.........

 

[ziaulislam]

again i would say people herer never think of econmics, had they so they would never had indulged thoughts of rafale etc..every one should know that in actual indian defense deal will go upto 20 billion dollars, meaning to take 36 rafale we would have atleast had spent 5-6 billion dollars.do you know that we can acquire 100 j-10bs or 100 f-16s or 250 thunders for same price, and we were establishing infrastructure for those anyway..? so only an insane air chief will go for such a decision..which of course we dont have.

the french equipment was a good deal and we did wanted it but that deal was killed by indian mirage update not by MRCA..it was killed when india payed more than the market price for upgrading its mirages..it payed nearly 2.2 billion dollars, every one knew that why did it paid so much..

secondly buying any plateform in such a low quantity wouldnt have served us much, as india would simply have picked up typhoon or f-18 either one equal or better than the rafale.

logic simply doesnt support such fantasy thoughts. however if we could bring 12-15 billion dollars on table without sweating like india can then ofcourse it would have been a proposal worth considering.


lastly ad ecade has been passed since we were considering french avionics, in this decade the chinese have came so far that PAF is quiet satisfied with it. their fifth gen programe is the living proof for it

again i would say people herer never think of econmics, had they so they would never had indulged thoughts of rafale etc..every one should know that in actual indian defense deal will go upto 20 billion dollars, meaning to take 36 rafale we would have atleast had spent 5-6 billion dollars.do you know that we can acquire 100 j-10bs or 100 f-16s or 250 thunders for same price, and we were establishing infrastructure for those anyway..? so only an insane air chief will go for such a decision..which of course we dont have.

the french equipment was a good deal and we did wanted it but that deal was killed by indian mirage update not by MRCA..it was killed when india payed more than the market price for upgrading its mirages..it payed nearly 2.2+ billion dollars, every one knew that why did it paid so much..

secondly buying any platform in such a low quantity wouldnt have served us much, as india would simply have picked up typhoon or f-18 either one equal or better than the rafale.

logic simply doesnt support such fantasy thoughts. however if we could bring 12-15 billion dollars on table without sweating like india can then ofcourse it would have been a proposal worth considering.


lastly a decade has been passed since we were considering french avionics, in this decade the chinese have came so far that PAF is quiet satisfied with it. their fifth gen programe is the living proof for it

 

[fatman17]

@Farooqi1 - How come PLAAF so far has no plans to induct it?
when they have to retire 1,000's of their J7E's and A5's and their numbers dwindle down, then they will induct the FC-1 not the JFT (its for PAF only). they are waiting for the chinese engine to mature on the FC-1 and then u will see the rapid induction of the FC-1.

 

[Manticore]

Farooqi1 , why would be needing more than 3 fighter types [jft/j10/f16] of broadly the same generation and capability? how will you counter pakfa other than the chinese 5th gen option which would be comparable,cheap and more importantly available

Whats the broader picture? Immediate outstanding requirements ? 5 years from now? 10 years from now? 15 years from now?

What would iaf get by mmrca induction?at the most 0.25 generatioin leap over the j10b????
How would we address the issues post mmrca? Do we have the foresight to see the technological gap would be dramatically increased NOT by rafales induction in iaf... rather by PAKFA induction ..


Our engineers will have a chance to get trained in the j10b project ..our airforce would be able to have a compareable fighter in the shape of j10b... and probably would lead to a fifth generation affiliation aswell --having a good base would allow better absorbtion of fifth generation tech--- If the money is invested in the chinese option , this will help us in the long run --

What would a couple of rafale squadrons in PAF do when IAF gets fifth generation fighters -- then the members here would criticize paf yet again that why did they close the only possibility of a fifth gen fighter [ financially, politically] , paf will ever have just to get a couple of rafale squadrons , probably at the same price we could hopefully end up getting a fifth gen chinese fighter


Think of it , inhouse production and upgradation of all your fleet probably to a higher technical standard than the west would ever give us in the future on one hand --or-- extremely unaffordable high costs of upgradation most probably without ToT , that too after the bill gets passed by the politicians of the foreign country

I would rather side up with china -- let our engineers learn ... gradually get the infrastructure built in pakistan with the aim of absorbing 5th generation tech from china ---

Getting a couple of rafale squadrons was a good pov 5 years back..BEFORE THE FLIGHTS OF PAKFA AND JXX.. if paf has less money it should use it on a couple of single engined fifth generation fighter dquadrons rather than getting some costly western 4.5 generation fighters in a knee jerk response to india

A fifth gen fighter would be the actual morale booster and capability enhancer that the paf can practically think of in the future-- the short term/midterm strategies being jft [blks] , f16 and j10b
--
If our engineers cant get into a fifth gen project , If our airforce cant manage to induct a fifth gen chinese fighter , then , i would consider our paf to have let us down

iaf getting fifth generation fighters would dramatically blunt paf's punch.. should we get lavish flashy western 4.5 gen fighters , winning the battle but essentially losing the war?

Buying 2 types of western systems to sabotage indian procurements is a luxury that only a country with good economy can do -- right now we should tread intelligently by having comparable systems in EVERY category / generation without having an economic collapse in the process

 

[sancho]

@Farooqi1 - How come PLAAF so far has no plans to induct it?
when they have to retire 1,000's of their J7E's and A5's and their numbers dwindle down, then they will induct the FC-1 not the JFT (its for PAF only). they are waiting for the chinese engine to mature on the FC-1 and then u will see the rapid induction of the FC-1.

That's a hope, but not necessarily the reality! Why should they add a new type of fighter, engine and all necessary logistics, when they can replace these fighters more easily and more effectively with J10 versions? The advantage of FC1 in operational costs will be countered by the huge numbers of J10 PLAAF will procure and the engine commonality to J11, J15 and even J20. Operationally there is no advantage for them in inducting FC1 either, so all there is left, would be a lower procurement cost and will China with all their money really compromise on defence capability because of costs?
Realistically, there won't be any meaningful FC 1 order from PLAAF, because it was never developed to be an operational fighter to their requirements, but to be an export fighter.
Personally I expect more J10 versions and possibly a single engine stealth fighter next to J20, more than enough to replace J7 and A5, but more importantly more suiting to their requirements than FC1.

 

[wangrong]

 

[Bobby]

Hehn,

Amazing isn't it---here on one side---paf brags about its man behind the machine---pakistani pilots are the world's best---. PAF is full of so many lies--it is as usual living in a world of its own---.

Who gave certificate to Pakistani Pilot for best pilot in the world?

 

[farhan_9909]

is it true that block II means only 50 jft?

means we will have only 100jft till the block III production starts?

 

[SEAL]

Nice bombs.

 

[explorer9]

how many Block-1 are in active duty today? they should no go beyond 3 squadrons without IRF probes.

 

[SEAL]

is it true that block II means only 50 jft?

means we will have only 100jft till the block III production starts?

Nop 100 block-2, old 50's will also be upgraded to Block-2 standard.
Block-3 production will start in 2016.

how many Block-1 are in active duty today? they should no go beyond 3 squadrons without IRF probes.

Two squadrons fully operational, third is in process.