JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 3]

[Dazzler]

Translation of the article posted by Xinhui....

"Egypt starts with Pakistan to negotiate purchases and permitted that produces 92 JF-17 fighter plane.

Egypt to start with Pakistan to negotiate purchases and permitted produces 92 JF-17 fighter planes According to the Russian War industry news net on July 26 reported that Pakistan Chief of the Air Staff Sulaiman announced the other day at the British Farnborough air show, China and Pakistan unite the development JF-17 “Fierce Dragon” the fighter plane industrial process to be smoother, does not have the media report the so-called Russian RD-93 engine supply question, thus eliminated the people to this fighter plane's production to be possible, therefore faced the threat the worry. Pakistan Chief of the Air Staff Sulaiman on July 22 to gathers “Fierce Dragon” at the British Farnborough air show in fighter plane static state exhibition hall reporters to indicate that he is right the positive interest which for other friendly states “Fierce Dragon” the fighter plane displays to inspire, the aircraft engine supply side did not have any question which the media reported that China and Pakistan already to draw up “Fierce Dragon” the fighter plane has pushed to together the international market the strategy. China National Aviation Corp industry deputy general manager on the scene, “Fierce Dragon” airplane leading group Leader Li Yuhai confirmed that China has not obtained Russia official related to stop supply next batch of 100 RD-93 engine's any news. Sulaiman also pointed out that China is producing “Fierce Dragon” independently the fighter plane domestic product engine, at present is being at the experimental stage. He said: “we must look China produces the engine (performance) has well, will then possibly assemble it to own fighter plane on.” Pakistan Chief of the Air Staff indicated that Pakistan prepares to produce about 250 JF-17 “Fierce Dragon”, uses in A-5 which, FP-7 substituted already got older and “illusory image” fighter plane. According to Britain "Jane's Defense Weekly" disclosed that Egypt already started with Pakistan to negotiate purchases and permitted produces 92 JF-17 fighter plane's possible question. In the Egyptian market, the Russian Mig - 29 kind of fighter plane producers will encounter from China's force competition, specially in the price, the Mig - 29 selling prices reaches as high as 35,000,000 US dollars, China “Fierce Dragon” is only 10,000,000 US dollars, under this background other middle east country also displayed the strong interest to the excellent in quality and reasonable in price Chinese fighter plane. Russia Federation Military technology Cooperation Bureau in November, 2007 authorized the RD-93 engine to transfer the mouth to Egypt the agreement. This Farnborough air show period, Saudi Arabian Air force Dhahran Base commander also sits JF-17 “Fierce Dragon” the cabin wife's relatives from to understand that this kind of fighter plane's performance, drives the fighter plane to fly to Farnborough's Pakistani Air force aviation squadron commander Halliday scene explanation. At this air show, “Fierce Dragon” only carries on the static state to demonstrate that has not carried on the air show, the aerial flight performance plans for the first time keeps at November's Chinese Zhuhai air show to carry on. in 2012 “Fierce Dragon” the fighter plane will also participate in the Singapore international air exhibition. " (translation: Book mountain)

 

[Dazzler]

sorry for my ignorance, but do we have a link for any of the above claims? 2005 is a long time and it I haven't heard anything about this until now...

Zimbabwe's fighter jets spark fears of arms-race
Sunday Times Foreign Desk


ZIMBABWE'S order for more than 240-million worth of jet fighters from China flies in the face of a request by South African Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma that the country stop selling arms in sub-Saharan Africa.

According to a semi-official US defence intelligence publication, Dlamini-Zuma made the request, during a meeting of the China-South Africa bilateral forum, to head off a possible arms race on the subcontinent.

Military sources in Harare say that Zimbabwe will acquire 12 FC-1s as replacements for the Chengdu F-7s, currently based in Gweru. The FC-1, a lightweight multipurpose fighter based on Russia's MiG-33, will provide a credible answer to the challenge posed by the 28 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters that the SA government has ordered from Saab, the Swedish arms manufacturer.

According to Armed Forces Journal International, published in Virginia, US, Dlamini-Zuma's request was at least partly aimed at protecting the interests of SA's state-owned arms industries. But her request also "reveals that South Africa has observed a growing pattern of Chinese arms sales" in its own backyard, and provided "evidence of its serious concern about the matter".

Yesterday Foreign Affairs spokes man Ronnie Mamoepa said he could not recall Dlamini-Zuma making such a request. He referred further queries to his department's Asian Affairs desk, which did not answer calls.

The Zimbabwean fighter jet order also defies a 1998 appeal by UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan that defence expenditure in Southern Africa be frozen for 10 years at 1.5% of countries' GDP.

Figures compiled for the SA Institute of International Affairs show that, if anything, Annan's plea has been answered with a full-scale arms race between Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa and other countries in the region.

The South African government says it spends only 1.5% of GDP on arms. According to the institute's figures, however, only Zambia and Swaziland have adhered to the 1.5% limit. Zimbabwe (3.4% ), Namibia (3.6% ) and South Africa (1.7% ), it says, have committed themselves to expensive military upgrades.

 

[BATMAN]

In the Egyptian market, the Russian Mig - 29 kind of fighter plane producers will encounter from China's force competition

I assume Egyptians may have approached Russinas to seek confirmations for support of RD-93 engines, once they buy JFT.
This could be the reason for Mig cheif to suggest suspension of RD-93 supply.
Clearly... mig-29 loose on this competition.
Now, i totaly agree to the Chinese offer which they made to Russinas suggesting improvement in RD-33... Russia should broaden his vision.

 

[Dazzler]

China is sufficient to deal with Russians, no need for us or Egyptians buddy

 

[Trisonics]

Zimbabwe's fighter jets spark fears of arms-race
Sunday Times Foreign Desk


ZIMBABWE'S order for more than 240-million worth of jet fighters from China flies in the face of a request by South African Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma that the country stop selling arms in sub-Saharan Africa.

According to a semi-official US defence intelligence publication, Dlamini-Zuma made the request, during a meeting of the China-South Africa bilateral forum, to head off a possible arms race on the subcontinent.

Military sources in Harare say that Zimbabwe will acquire 12 FC-1s as replacements for the Chengdu F-7s, currently based in Gweru. The FC-1, a lightweight multipurpose fighter based on Russia's MiG-33, will provide a credible answer to the challenge posed by the 28 JAS-39 Gripen multi-role fighters that the SA government has ordered from Saab, the Swedish arms manufacturer.

According to Armed Forces Journal International, published in Virginia, US, Dlamini-Zuma's request was at least partly aimed at protecting the interests of SA's state-owned arms industries. But her request also "reveals that South Africa has observed a growing pattern of Chinese arms sales" in its own backyard, and provided "evidence of its serious concern about the matter".

Yesterday Foreign Affairs spokes man Ronnie Mamoepa said he could not recall Dlamini-Zuma making such a request. He referred further queries to his department's Asian Affairs desk, which did not answer calls.

The Zimbabwean fighter jet order also defies a 1998 appeal by UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan that defence expenditure in Southern Africa be frozen for 10 years at 1.5% of countries' GDP.

Figures compiled for the SA Institute of International Affairs show that, if anything, Annan's plea has been answered with a full-scale arms race between Zimbabwe, Namibia, South Africa and other countries in the region.

The South African government says it spends only 1.5% of GDP on arms. According to the institute's figures, however, only Zambia and Swaziland have adhered to the 1.5% limit. Zimbabwe (3.4% ), Namibia (3.6% ) and South Africa (1.7% ), it says, have committed themselves to expensive military upgrades.

easy mate you should have gone through the entire thread before being so sure
Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums - View Single Post - First real foreign order of FC-1

Anyway..if it was ordered in 05, don't you think everybody would have known by now?....its ok I can feel your excitement but don't get too ahead of yourself..have fun

 

[Dazzler]

Russians are seeing a huge market for RD-93 in JFT sales and will never do anything to hamper it especially in countries that are unable to buy western/Russian planes due to several reasons. They also know that if they tried to mischief, China will sell it anyway as ws-13 is almost in service and one prototype is already being tested equipped with it. There is a huge market for Russians to make millions maybe billions of $ even though they are not even a partner of the whole JFT project. No wonder they have no worries to sell rd-93s !

 

[BATMAN]

@ Trisonics: It is quite well known.... but you need not to loose sleeps over the sales of JFT

 

[Dazzler]

easy mate you should have gone through the entire thread before being so sure
Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums - View Single Post - First real foreign order of FC-1

Anyway..if it was ordered in 05, don't you think everybody would have known by now?....its ok I can feel your excitement but don't get too ahead of yourself..have fun

And i can also sense your state as it seem to hit where it hurts most. Please refrain to make silly arguments with me at least as i know when and what to say.

Regards

 

[Trisonics]

@ Trisonics: It is quite well known.... but you need not to loose sleeps over the sales of JFT

when you make a real sale... I will be jealous.. until then lets at least not state something that is not true...

 

[Dazzler]

Carry on with the topic in hand folks and avoid nay Sayers.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Nabil_05 Egypt is most likely next customer as they like the aircraft and final negotiations on license setup are going on. Xinhui on China defense forum confirmed that initial order for Egypt is as high as 92 aircrafts !

Now this seems finally Egypt has got in depth testing on JFT and found it to be far superior to those MIII/migs/F-7s, and finally they've changed plans regarding upgrades to their current inventory if not all, with intitial orders and most likely followed by more order to replace around 150 airframes out of 173 (Mig-21/F-7/Mirage3), most likely 150 JFTs. Indeed it is a force multiplier. I'm suspecting Egypt might along with Thunder opt for 2 squadrons of russian origin most likely su family.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi a question --

Price of J10 is reputedly between 40-45 million dollars whereas price of JF is between 17 million to 20 million dollars.
Both are single engined fighters, both powered by Russian engines ! One by RD series and one by AL.

So the question -- why is there so much of price difference between two A/C's that are similar ? I have been reading numerous posts in this thread and have come to the conclusion that avionics between two a/c's are pretty much similar. Both A/C's share same radar (KLJ 10) , same avionics (i guess - MAWS , Data Links , Jammers) , etc..pretty much the technology developed for J10 will be undoubtedly incorporated into JF.

Even if we take a couple of million for AL series of engine and couple of million of a/c frame construction (since J10 is bigger) -- It still doesnt add up ! So what exactly is making J10 expensive or JF cheaper ?

Am i missing something ? If this has been answered then kindly point me to the right direction.

Thanks.

Hi,

JF 17 is our joint venture---so there is basically no profit for the structure to anyone---maybe minimal.

I would like to say that paf should not have disclosed such a lower cost for the jf 17---it should have disclosed a little higher cost for the aircraft---about 3 to 4 million dollars more could have been justified for what the aircraft is capable of and still it would have buyers for it.

This aircraft for the first two to three major buyers would be justifiable at 19---24 million dollars to start with.

The J 10 B is china's baby---they will make some money on it.

Look at the size of the j 10b to jf 17----J 10 B is the second generation of the J 10 series---so obviously the cost would go up.

 

[Tempest II]

sorry for my ignorance, but do we have a link for any of the above claims? 2005 is a long time and it I haven't heard anything about this until now...

You have not been looking in the right places: Here, from the International Institute of Stratetic Studies. Zimbabwe is under international arms embargo, so you will not see the countries involved in the deal talk about it much.

 

[hataf]

Nabil_05 Egypt is most likely next customer as they like the aircraft and final negotiations on license setup are going on. Xinhui on China defense forum confirmed that initial order for Egypt is as high as 92 aircrafts !

Now this seems finally Egypt has got in depth testing on JFT and found it to be far superior to those MIII/migs/F-7s, and finally they've changed plans regarding upgrades to their current inventory if not all, with intitial orders and most likely followed by more order to replace around 150 airframes out of 173 (Mig-21/F-7/Mirage3), most likely 150 JFTs. Indeed it is a force multiplier. I'm suspecting Egypt might along with Thunder opt for 2 squadrons of russian origin most likely su family.

on to that will egypt buy aew&c

 

[WAQAS119]

Tht could be a good idea actually .But we need to get expertice in Steam catapult (for give the aircradft enough push for take off).

Americans have done alot work on this technology.and it is damn good .(im talking abt the catapult on the their aircraft carriers.)

Ok leave Pakistan! But other nations like USA, Russia, france etc have the experience in steam catapult.