Thank you for the little treasure trove you have attached to your post. I appreciated the read greatly.
I think it is safe to say that for the PAF it has been a Journey which has seen its evolution from the Sabre2 programme to the super 7 programme leading to the JFT/ FC1. To say that the 3 are related is true only as far as the historical aspect goes. Sure there may have been design elements of all the programmes which were incorporated
And that is what is being contended for, at least on my part. Apparently, for some of us, it can't be because they can't "see it". Doesn't matter what the people involved in the process have to say or the fact that examples of a lot more radical evolutionary iterations are present in the world. The Porsche 918 is well documented to have come from the VW Beetle but then it does not since our friends such as
@ziaulislam can't "see it". Others such as
@Dalit are still stuck on whether the US was involved with the SABRE II and the Super-7 projects after everyone in the world, i.e. the Pakistanis, the Chinese, the Americans have stated the same thing. He still demands proof. I believe it doesn't matter any more how it is but rather how one wants it to have been.
but then to infer that JFT is an upgraded Mig 21 is like saying that because USA made the F104, the F16 is an upgraded F104. Designs and requirements have moved immensely since the late 80 to the 2000 and perhaps even now(something which the Chinese have also complained about as well). So the Block 2 has evolved into what block 1 was not, and block 3 will evolve further.
A side point to all this testosterone release is that this discussion could have been carried out in a more amicable manner. That is the sad aspect of the board.
A
I don't think the ongoing debate is about the JF-17 being an upgraded Mig-21, none of the articles/posts posted stated anything remotely as such. That would be ludicrous.
The argument at first was about the US' involvement with the SABRE II and Super-7 projects. Now, apparently, it's about whether the SABRE II and Super-7 projects grandfathered the JF-17 project or not.
I don't recall. Boys and girls were not put together in the PAF schooling system in Class 5....
Cheers !!!
Well, now you know what its like.
thanks for posting something that has been posted repeatedly,
No it wasn't. I mashed those pictures together myself.
as you can see there is absolutely no resembles between saber 2 and jf-17...jf-17 is externally more similar to f-16 and f-18 rather than the saber 2..
but saber 2 looks very similar to mig21, which it was actually before USA walked away
That is exactly what evolution is. That is how it works.
payload, role, engine specification nothing matches or even closely resemble
Why would they? Do you understand the process of evolution? Do you understand what "being based upon" or "evolved from" or "has roots in" means?
The Porsche 918 being based on the Beetle example was ignored by you. How about these two?
F-86
F-100
or these two,
T-90,
T-72,
After you're done reasoning whether "you see it or not" please compare the specifications in both these examples as well.
as i said before may be j-10 comes from lavi with similar design and engine though enlarged but arguing jf-17 comes from mig21/saber 2 is saying like camry and mazda 5 are same car, heck than just have four wheels and are sedans..
What you have to actually say isn't as important as you might think it is. Rhetoric doesn't really fly, arguments do.
Anyway, I've given you statements from people who were actually involved in the projects, examples of a lot more radical examples of evolution than the JF-17 and some that might help you understand how design evolution works. But in the end, the horse and water and what not.
enjoy!
