JF-17 Fighter: China's Weird MiG-21 and F-16 Hybrid

[Raider 21]

What a moronic thing to say. Too many Uncle Toms here.

Next someone will read this and write another "article"

I apologise if that upset you my moronic friend.....but ask the head of the aero dept at Tuskegee university. And it was at the early stage.

Cheers Aunt Nancy !!!!

 

[slapshot]

I can bet that whoever wrote this, don't have a clue how Mig-21 looks like. Comparing Jf17 with Mig21!!

Some people are still stuck in establising a link between thunder and mig 21 Some braindead people are looking for such make them feel good articles to boost their self estem. What differance would it make even if its design is influenced by Mig 21? Does it make it any less potent then what it already is? Pakistan is producing a capable home grown jet and more 100 aircrafts are already in service with PAF. At least we have strarted to upgrade our aging fleet of F7 while another nation accross the border is still stuck trying to achieve the same goal even after 30 years.

 

[Armchair]

I apologise if that upset you my moronic friend.....but ask the head of the aero dept at Tuskegee university. And it was at the early stage.

Cheers Aunt Nancy !!!!

Whatever you're smoking must be really good Aunt Nancy.

JF-17 never received help from the Americans, no matter what "Aunt Nancy" thinks. Is that your alter-ego? You need serious help.

 

[Ultima Thule]

I apologise if that upset you my moronic friend.....but ask the head of the aero dept at Tuskegee university. And it was at the early stage.

Cheers Aunt Nancy !!!!

only in saber 2/super7 project but USA didn't help us in the JF project there were only China and Pakistan to initiate JF project @Knuckles

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Some people are still stuck in establising a link between thunder and mig 21 Some braindead people are looking for such make them feel good articles to boost their self estem. What differance would it make even if its design is influenced by Mig 21? Does it make it any less potent then what it already is? Pakistan is producing a capable home grown jet and more 100 aircrafts are already in service with PAF. At least we have strarted to upgrade our aging fleet of F7 while another nation accross the border is still stuck trying to achieve the same goal even after 30 years.

One can make comparison between F16/F18 to Jf17s and how there are similarities in design but Mig21!! Fk that . LOL

 

[slapshot]

One can make comparison between F16/F18 to Jf17s and how there are similarities in design but Mig21!! Fk that . LOL

Yeah by their logic every jet with two wings may be influenced from mig 21. When you look at things through goggles of personal biasness you really see the things you want to see then what reality is. Indian Tejas design is influenced by Mirage 5, engine is american, radar is from Israel and still its so called made in India project jet of the future according to Indian sources. Banda poochay jab sab kuch he import kar ka lagaya hay tu 30 sal say kia bana rhay thay just the air frame?

 

[krash]

There is no proof of this.

LOL a fighter which was borne out of necessity as an insurance policy against US sanctions has somehow received input from the Americans? That is like saying that the Americans undermined their own sanctions against Pakistan.

These Americans never cease to amaze. They are falling to Indian standards and that is very low.

Buddy, it wasn't and still isn't a secret. We (PAF) were the ones who contracted Grumman for the SABRE II project. We took their teams to China and we were the ones who dealt with them. What is wrong with you guys?

Here, from the horse's mouth. Do us all a favour.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=beJ8DAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"A.+Siddiqa-Agha"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicpNOV5oDcAhUuFjQIHVO0CnkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.ca/books?id=3GZaDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=sabre+II+project&source=bl&ots=fRSAl9n7eh&sig=usK6kG_2qu9pmzGt_0wHXo1Ir5c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW89nZ44DcAhWlGTQIHWm5DSAQ6AEIczAN#v=onepage&q=sabre II project&f=false

And then some.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Project+Sabre+II
https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/project-sabre-ii-6134600644
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7p.htm

USA never helped in JF-17 production. LOL!

The article never said that they helped in JF-17's production. The article says that the US was involved with the two precursor projects of the JF-17 (Project Sabre II and Super-7) which did then result into the JF-17. Both of these claims are fact. If the US later on did not want to help or even impeded the process it still does not nullify their previous help.

I don't even understand why you guys are so touchy on the matter.

USA was in fact opposed to Pakistani-Chinese cooperation. LOL!

You have no clue about history, do you? Pakistan opened the doors for Chinese/US relations. We literally took the US diplomats to China to thaw out their cold-war relationship. These relations were blossoming until the Tienanmen incident. The Chinese even bought military hardware from the US in those days. There were reports that they were even in the process of procuring F-16s.

You are clueless.

Exactly. The JF-17 including its very first incarnation was conceived as an alternative to US F-16 embargoes.

Lol. When the Sabre II project was conceived (1984) there were no embargoes, in fact we were still in the process of receiving our first order of F-16s. Please refrain from producing history out of nothing.

I apologise if that upset you my moronic friend.....but ask the head of the aero dept at Tuskegee university. And it was at the early stage.

Cheers Aunt Nancy !!!!

He likes you. Remember that fat, greasy girl from 5th grade who'd punch you because she had a crush on you? Pretty sure she never grew up.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Buddy, it wasn't and still isn't a secret. We (PAF) were the ones who contracted Grumman for the SABRE II project. We took their teams to China and we were the ones who dealt with them. What is wrong with you guys?

Here, from the horse's mouth. Do us all a favour.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=beJ8DAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"A.+Siddiqa-Agha"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicpNOV5oDcAhUuFjQIHVO0CnkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.ca/books?id=3GZaDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=sabre+II+project&source=bl&ots=fRSAl9n7eh&sig=usK6kG_2qu9pmzGt_0wHXo1Ir5c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW89nZ44DcAhWlGTQIHWm5DSAQ6AEIczAN#v=onepage&q=sabre II project&f=false

And then some.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Project+Sabre+II
https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/project-sabre-ii-6134600644
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7p.htm



The article never said that they helped in JF-17's production. The article says that the US was involved with the two precursor projects of the JF-17 (Project Sabre II and Super-7) which did then result into the JF-17. Both of these claims are fact. If the US later on did not want to help or even impeded the process it still does not nullify their previous help.

I don't even understand why you guys are so touchy on the matter.



You have no clue about history, do you? Pakistan opened the doors for Chinese/US relations. We literally took the US diplomats to China to thaw out their cold-war relationship. These relations were blossoming until the Tienanmen incident. The Chinese even bought military hardware from the US in those days. There were reports that they were even in the process of procuring F-16s.

You are clueless.



Lol. When the Sabre II project was conceived (1984) there were no embargoes, in fact we were still in the process of receiving our first order of F-16s. Please refrain from producing history out of nothing.

Actually it is you who is clueless. Perhaps back in the 80's, USA may have cooperated with China.

But now USA is very much opposed to China.

 

[ziaulislam]

Buddy, it wasn't and still isn't a secret. We (PAF) were the ones who contracted Grumman for the SABRE II project. We took their teams to China and we were the ones who dealt with them. What is wrong with you guys?

Here, from the horse's mouth. Do us all a favour.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=beJ8DAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:"A.+Siddiqa-Agha"&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwicpNOV5oDcAhUuFjQIHVO0CnkQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.ca/books?id=3GZaDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=sabre+II+project&source=bl&ots=fRSAl9n7eh&sig=usK6kG_2qu9pmzGt_0wHXo1Ir5c&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiW89nZ44DcAhWlGTQIHWm5DSAQ6AEIczAN#v=onepage&q=sabre II project&f=false

And then some.

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Project+Sabre+II
https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/project-sabre-ii-6134600644
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/j-7p.htm



The article never said that they helped in JF-17's production. The article says that the US was involved with the two precursor projects of the JF-17 (Project Sabre II and Super-7) which did then result into the JF-17. Both of these claims are fact. If the US later on did not want to help or even impeded the process it still does not nullify their previous help.

I don't even understand why you guys are so touchy on the matter.



You have no clue about history, do you? Pakistan opened the doors for Chinese/US relations. We literally took the US diplomats to China to thaw out their cold-war relationship. These relations were blossoming until the Tienanmen incident. The Chinese even bought military hardware from the US in those days. There were reports that they were even in the process of procuring F-16s.

You are clueless.



Lol. When the Sabre II project was conceived (1984) there were no embargoes, in fact we were still in the process of receiving our first order of F-16s. Please refrain from producing history out of nothing.

Question is whether jf-17 is derivative of saber 2 project or whether it's new design ...
Just looking at it you can figure it out

No one is denying Americans invovlement with China in the 1980s

It was massive in every department

 

[krash]

Actually it is you who is clueless. Perhaps back in the 80's, USA may have cooperated with China.

But now USA is very much opposed to China.

Do you ever even try to make any sense? What has the US opposition to China yoday got to do with projects from the 80s which you said the US wasn't involved in?

Are you trying to side-step and miserably failing? Not so clueless now am I?

Question is whether jf-17 is derivative of saber 2 project or whether it's new design ...
Just looking at it you can figure it out

No one is denying Americans invovlement with China in the 1980s

It was massive in every department

Every new design is an iteration of the previous. All the US aircraft are as well. In fact, if you look at the Sabre II to Super 7 to JF-17 it is quite obvious. Apart from the acceptance of the fact by the people who've actually worked on it.

I don't get why it is so hard for us to accept that the JF-17 has roots in other projects.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Do you ever even try to make any sense? What has the US opposition to China got to do with projects from the 80s which you said the US wasn't involved in?

Are you trying to side-step and miserably failing? Not so clueless now am I?



Every new design is an iteration of the previous. All the US aircraft are as well. In fact, if you look at the Sabre II to Super 7 to JF-17 it is quite obvious. Apart from the acceptance of the fact by the people who've actually worked on it.

I don't get why it is so hard for us to accept that the JF-17 has roots in other projects.

Don't try to obfuscate little bacha, USA may have cooperated with China before the Tinanmen square incident, but Now USA does not cooperate with China on anything. USA is even on a trade war with China.

Who is clueless is you.

 

[krash]

Don't try to obfuscate little bacha, USA may have cooperated with China before the Tinanmen square incident, but Now USA does not cooperate with China on anything. USA is even on a trade war with China.

Who is clueless is you.

Thought so.

 

[ziaulislam]

Do you ever even try to make any sense? What has the US opposition to China yoday got to do with projects from the 80s which you said the US wasn't involved in?

Are you trying to side-step and miserably failing? Not so clueless now am I?



Every new design is an iteration of the previous. All the US aircraft are as well. In fact, if you look at the Sabre II to Super 7 to JF-17 it is quite obvious. Apart from the acceptance of the fact by the people who've actually worked on it.

I don't get why it is so hard for us to accept that the JF-17 has roots in other projects.

okay so f-16 is derivative of saber..
you are confusing stuff here your self..
you can go back and say that every airplan is derived from wright brothers idea...???
or every usa project has roots in german designs...???
if that is what you mean than indeed jf-17 is derived from saber project..because otherwise they absolutely look completely different with completely different specifications..

if a truck has roots with sedan yeah than you are right

 

[krash]

okay so f-16 is derivative of saber..
you are confusing stuff here your self..

No. What I wrote/meant was that every new US aricraft has roots in the previous US aircraft.

you can go back and say that every airplan is derived from wright brothers idea...???
or every usa project has roots in german designs...???
if that is what you mean than indeed jf-17 is derived from saber project..because otherwise they absolutely look completely different with completely different specifications..

if a truck has roots with sedan yeah than you are right

The specifications are obviously going to be different, why else would one build a new aircraft?

As far as the looks go, I don't think I can say anymore than this,

I'll get you the side and front profiles once I'm back from work.


BTW, this

came from this

Do you see it? Can you compare the specifications?

 

[ziaulislam]

No. What I wrote/meant was that every new US aricraft has roots in the previous US aircraft.



The specifications are obviously going to be different, why else would one build a new aircraft?

As far as the looks go, I don't think I can say anymore than this,

I'll get you the side and front profiles once I'm back from work.


BTW, this

came from this

Do you see it? Can you compare the specifications?

thanks for posting something that has been posted repeatedly, as you can see there is absolutely no resembles between saber 2 and jf-17...jf-17 is externally more similar to f-16 and f-18 rather than the saber 2..
but saber 2 looks very similar to mig21, which it was actually before USA walked away

payload, role, engine specification nothing matches or even closely resemble

as i said before may be j-10 comes from lavi with similar design and engine though enlarged but arguing jf-17 comes from mig21/saber 2 is saying like camry and mazda 5 are same car, heck than just have four wheels and are sedans..