Featured JF-17 Emerged As The Star of Swift Retort

[TNT]

Ya, but things don’t work like this. CIA has little to nothing to do with it. National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) collect all satellite sensor data. Send it to relative, CIA, DIA, Air-force (space command /force now) for processing depending on mission requirement. There is so much going on that day, to dissect chronology of events, concerned agency will need some time and manpower to clear up the details. Now no US assets is involve, whole event is nothing more than another Intelligence analysis Of the event for file cabinet.

Yes ofcourse, my point was that US would certainly have observed and have data on it. Sharing and digging out that data is another topic, but the capability is there.

 

[R Wing]

Israelis are more connected to MKI, they were present there on the fateful day.

A trusted source told me that the Israeli pilot/co-pilot/tech capture story had some credence to it. I still don't know whether to believe it --- but this guy worked directly with three different intel heads.

Bhai! That wasn't a window shopping day neither it was supposed to bag kills. Active battle scenario with total application or ROEs that falls with all the points for PAF. Don't you see that IAF lost on every level, from ROEs to Engagement.

Why the clearance was not given, I am sure that wasn't a mere choice of personal likes or dislikes. When such decisions are made in split seconds, they comes after the best of considerations & evaluation of lot of factors. Indeed, 7 to 9 kills could have been made or may be less but what has to happen then-after? May be the plan was to teach a lesson without much killings on that side. At- least, we have seen the affects. You just let few of them to live and you know what will they tell at home base? What will be their psychological affect since then? and how all of them will feel on next engagement? I am just counting few while there could be lot of achievements for psychological warfare. Indian side claimed their violation as a targeted operation against so-called specific camps or whatever and PAF did the same thing within the same rule being set by India that to target specific locations with a message to not to violate Airspace and also, shooting down 2 of them to make them fear PAF that it could be done as well. Indians set the rule and PAF did lot better but in even manners.

The psychological impact of losing a few more fighters would have been even greater.

Of course, we can argue all day about the deterrence threshold before inviting a massive Indian counter-strike / invasion, but I do think that punishing the enemy to your full capability within limited engagements like the one over Kashmir last is the best strategy.

 

[denel]

You were there in India during that time on the very base that launched the failed attack?
In what capacity?

I was referencing Angola ops to earlier reference there being isrealis.

 

[Xone]

Indians need a hard hit to bring them into senses. Had Pakistan knock down all 9 planes on that eventful day, Indians would have been better behaving like a sensible person. Presently they are looking for an opportunity to avenge for 27th humiliation. They understand only one language, and that is that of power.

 

[F86 Saber]

A trusted source told me that the Israeli pilot/co-pilot/tech capture story had some credence to it. I still don't know whether to believe it --- but this guy worked directly with three different intel heads.

Information in armed forces is on need to know bases and there is hardly anyone who knows the complete picture, also, people in the armed forces are human and like to gossip which must be the case with your contact. I can tell you will complete authority that there was no other pilot caught that day.

Actually this was the beginning of our superior exit strategy which fetch us alot later on. Instead of going for multiple kills which would have surely cornered the Indians, attracting the world powers, and forcing the Indians to go for something big....we achieved what we wanted to achieve with downing less of their number / killing none (bombing of their HQ) than the multiple opportunities.

It's always an interesting thing if you are sitting in a Block 52 (direct participant) cockpit, with its pilot by your side , who himself participated in Swift Retort.... And the conversation which took place between us.

Locking onto 7 jets had the same effect on the morale of the IAF pilots as if we had shot them down, especially when they were unable to break the locks. We achieved the same result without bloodshed and without giving India an excuse to escalate further thus killing two birds with one stone.

 

[alphapak]

The 7 locks Pak got on IAF should of been shot down but PAF has given them
another chance to learn from their mistakes and come back stronger.

They even released Abhinandhan so he can have another chance to try
and bomb Pakistan again. Just imagine if a Pakistani pilot was shot down
in India, would they release him? check the history.

 

[Jinn Baba]

I genuinely don't understand how some of you believe that PAF could have shot down every IAF jet that came within range without repercussions.

PAF targeting Indian Army sites was already an escalation over and above what the IAF did the previous day. How was PAF to justify an even bigger escalation of shooting down a large number of IAF jets over Indian territory? And what exactly do you guys think the IAF would have done after - just sit around?

The only jets that were shot down was a Mig21 that entered Pak airspace (justifiable) and a Su30 that was targeting our jets (somewhat justifiable). Anything more and we would have been seen internationally as the agressors and the Indians would have responded (with international support).

What the PAF did was calculated! They achieved their objective and taught the enemy a lesson, but didn't go overboard. Shooting down 7 jets wouldn't really have affected the IAF (that has many 100s more) but would certainly have led to a response by them, and even perhaps, it would be the Indians today who'd be boasting about how well they did last year.

The fact that we hit them, shot down 2 jets, and swiftly ended the Indian dreams of a 'new norm' shows that the right decisions were made.

Just to add - those saying that we showed our hand (surprise capability) and should have at least achieved more kills to make it worth while - please explain how 5 extra kills would have had any impact to an airforce with over 500 4th gen jets? And what would it have achieved other than boost your own ego?

 

[The Accountant]

The 7 locks Pak got on IAF should of been shot down but PAF has given them
another chance to learn from their mistakes and come back stronger.

They even released Abhinandhan so he can have another chance to try
and bomb Pakistan again. Just imagine if a Pakistani pilot was shot down
in India, would they release him? check the history.

No, PAF and GoP give them chance to save face so that they dont have to compulsorily retaliate.

We gave them a lesson to back off. They got a bloody nose and now they know we will fight back.

War between 2 nuclear armed countries is the last option.

 

[alibaz]

A trusted source told me that the Israeli pilot/co-pilot/tech capture story had some credence to it. I still don't know whether to believe it --- but this guy worked directly with three different intel heads.

Someone must have been trying to impress you. I hope he isn't Haqqeeqat TV guy . Always stick to official statement in such matters.

 

[araz]

Exactly! And not to mention official PAF claims that they have the recording of the IAF panic after the SU-30 went down. Well, if you have such a recording why wouldn’t you present it to set the record straight. Something tells me this is a lie or an incompetence on the part of PAF. If they release now, it’s more than a year late and people will correctly raise credibility concerns.

Btw, the Indians never hesitated to present the intercepted conversation between Musharraf and his generals during Kargil. There’s no reason why PAF wouldn’t release this audio if it has it in its possession.

I dont think PAF is in any mood to convert this into a public tamasha. Those that needed to see the relevant information saw and GREATLY appreciated the kill. I only hope PAF can get out of it what it wanted to get and progress in their plans.
Regards
A

Proximity fuse detonation.
The missile parts can fall at significant distance from the aircraft wreckage

Missile part got pulled out of something's rear end. Jagged edges are out turned signifying the missile exploded and fragment has been retrieved.
But then why do I try to see sense in people who are hell bent on lying.
A

 

[PradoTLC]

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

BS.... between these four planes they had sufficient air to air missiles to take in theory on the fighter sweep F-16s..both planes can fire all their missiles in a few seconds...they have radars that can track, lock on , and shoot on multiple targets at the same time..


out numbered?..more BS ....included in the 24 strike package where AWACS, Falcon Blinders, or Mirage V... were they going to attack the Su-30s and Mirages?..

came all the way from Rajasthan?....wow... what took them so long?... where they coming on camels or something.....lol

i seriously hope you didnt watch topgun movie to make your analysis.

 

[MM_Haider]

No such thing happened.
Both of the two Mirage 2000s and the two Su-30s were pulled back as they were outnumbered 6:1 (24 vs 4) and new reinforcements were being sent from Punjab, Haryana and even Rajasthan.

you also don't agree that SU-20 was killed... lolzzz. jokers

 

[araz]

Let's let the cat out of the bag.!!!

View attachment 653949

Yara Windy.
The Kachra Kundi from the other side will always say this is a false convo. Was this with the person in your DP?
A

 

[PradoTLC]

I genuinely don't understand how some of you believe that PAF could have shot down every IAF jet that came within range without repercussions.

PAF targeting Indian Army sites was already an escalation over and above what the IAF did the previous day. How was PAF to justify an even bigger escalation of shooting down a large number of IAF jets over Indian territory? And what exactly do you guys think the IAF would have done after - just sit around?

The only jets that were shot down was a Mig21 that entered Pak airspace (justifiable) and a Su30 that was targeting our jets (somewhat justifiable). Anything more and we would have been seen internationally as the agressors and the Indians would have responded (with international support).

What the PAF did was calculated! They achieved their objective and taught the enemy a lesson, but didn't go overboard. Shooting down 7 jets wouldn't really have affected the IAF (that has many 100s more) but would certainly have led to a response by them, and even perhaps, it would be the Indians today who'd be boasting about how well they did last year.

The fact that we hit them, shot down 2 jets, and swiftly ended the Indian dreams of a 'new norm' shows that the right decisions were made.

Just to add - those saying that we showed our hand (surprise capability) and should have at least achieved more kills to make it worth while - please explain how 5 extra kills would have had any impact to an airforce with over 500 4th gen jets? And what would it have achieved other than boost your own ego?

100% agreed. I personally think the PAF and political leadership made the right calls. There was no need to go over board.

 

[MM_Haider]

Thanks for the comprehensive message and i totally agree with you. It was just me fantasizing that it would have made us all very proud if one kill has been associated with JF-17. But as you said the pressure in such high time was such that no one can think of things like that. Anyway it is still very encouraging that Jf-17 not only breaks the lock but at the same time it was able to lock on the mighty SU-30.

before leaving the Airbases JF-17s were briefed to only attack ground installations to answer tit-for-tat ... but when Indians tried to become oversmart F-16s shut them up by killing their two jets ... killing indian jets was never planned for the sake of indian jets kills... i think this explains why JF-17s didnt kill indian jets although locking them ...