JF-17 Block-3 -- Updates, News & Discussion

[ziaulislam]

but in stealth configuration it will ONLY be able to carry A2A missiles that too in limited numbers

SDB if acquired would compensate the issue of JF-17 related to capability of carrying low number of striking munitions to a n extent then why should we go for a stealth jet which would not be able to take up strike role ..... ???

with the help of Israel and France I expect IAF will address it asap.

Bratva in his post has explain it nicely .....

It will be able to carry two 1000lb or 6 SDB internally
Not a big payload but given its survivability a good amount

 

[HaMoTZeMaS]

According to PAF leadership, JF-17 Block 3 is being loaded with various avionics, EW and ECM technologies and weapon packages to counter IAF threat including Rafale, Su 30MKI, Mirage 2000 and Mig-29.

Neither Rafale nor JF-17 Block 3 were pitched in actual battlefield ditching PL-15 or Meteor.

However, PAF pilots have the experience of flying and pitching against Rafale during various International exercises.

These pilots are the first and foremost important customers and users of JF-17 Block 3.

The integration and trial phase of JF-17 Block 3 is very crucial. It is being assisted and done by the experienced pilots.

JF-17 being smaller size has a low RCS value. According to manufacturers, more composite material was used on JF-17 Block 3, hence its RCS will be much lower than the older JF-17s. Furthermore, there are other ways available to PAF to reduce RCS and IR emission to minimal!!!!!!

Chinese KLJ-7A AESA radar has a range of 170 km whereas French Thales RBE2 AA AESA radar has range between 120 to 140 km for RCS value of 3 square meter target.
https://www.aviationtoday.com/2009/06/01/serious-squall/#:~:text=In air-to-air mode,air-to-air missiles.

Furthermore, PAF pilots are better tacticians than their counterparts.

And lastly do not forget PAF has "force multipliers".

So it seems to me that only way out is Project AZAM

Are we utilizing our same formula for JF17 and experiences of JF17 to do AZAM or next gen?

 

[HRK]

It will be able to carry two 1000lb or 6 SDB internally

till now it has not demonstrated such capability the prototype which was shown did not had the depth to carry such payload ....

 

[Tempest II]

Do u know RCS calculated for block 2 by some experts? There is no official figure though

The Belgian Air Component RFQ puts FC-1/JF-17 at average 10sqm. I would assume that is loaded and likely that would be against an airborne radar. There is also the question of aspect/direction.

https://www.belgianmilitaryinterests.be/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Request-for-Government-Proposal.pdf

 

[Mrc]

The Belgian Air Component RFQ puts FC-1/JF-17 at 10sqm. I would assume that is loaded and likely that would be against an airborne radar. There is also the question of aspect/direction.

Its smaller than f 16 and engine blades are hidden..

U made it sound like su 30 mki shet

 

[ziaulislam]

till now it has not demonstrated such capability the prototype which was shown did not had the depth to carry such payload ....

Agree. But since f35 can carry this payload i assume j31 would too.

Still seeing PAF only touches mature plateforms and doesnt take risky decisions its unlikely that it will take the j31

But in presense of highly sophisticated air defense(s400, and more!)..traditional startegies may not work. For strike PAF will have to think of decoys( launched air vechiles) or stealth aircrafts..

Those who fail to evolve ..loose..IAF saw that in 2019

Answer IMO is azm or j35/j31
For jf17..somwthing like towed decoy, or RF based decoys, and Small diameter bombs are urgently needed to make it an effective and survivable plateform.

ARIEL Towed RF Decoys

www.leonardocompany.com

ADM-160 MALD - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Leonardo launches BriteCloud decoy to protect military transports

Leonardo has launched a more powerful version of its BriteCloud decoy jammer optimised for use during the self-protection of medium and large transport aircraft.

www.flightglobal.com

GBU-39 Small Diameter Bomb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tempest II]

Its smaller than f 16 and engine blades are hidden..

U made it sound like su 30 mki shet

Sorry, this is what is in the document, In fact from that document:
Mig-29SMT = 6sqm
Su-30SM = 10sqm
Su-35 = 9sqm
Su-34 = 10smq
J-16 = 3sqm

In any case the FRP says " (data might not reflect true weapon system performances)", so in reality the information is not that helpful

 

[HRK]

But in presense of highly sophisticated air defense(s400, and more!)..traditional startegies may not work. For strike PAF will have to think of decoys( launched air vechiles) or stealth aircrafts..

Yes but there are assets and strategies to tackle Air defence systems and PAF conducts such exercise as well like Shaheen-VIII which was held in China,

We may find decoys and other required assets operational with PAF may in 3-5 years

Answer IMO is azm

Yes Azm will be the future of PAF but issue is related to interim solution till AZM become operational

For jf17..somwthing like towed decoy, or RF based decoys, and Small diameter bombs are urgently needed to make it an effective and survivable plateform.

as per open source info PAF showed some interest in RF based decoys for JF-17 some time back but current status is not known

rocket assisted SDB with the range of +120 km will give a new capability to PAF but as of now there is NO News in open source about PAF interest in this capability ..... so we could only speculate about this .....

 

[RAMPAGE]

Wait, no IRST for Blk3?

 

[siegecrossbow]

I dont think bholari is shaping out to be the next home for the cutting edge in Jf-17, if Im following things right its actually Shehbaz, I believe the blk 52s have moved on. Last I checked the ADF variants didnt require the stringent checks associated with blk 52s (and MLUs).

The logic of the chinese not wanting Americans anywhere near pl-15 makes sense and if the above is true then we see concrete steps to remedy that. However, this does not answer why we still need the J-10s if Pl-15 is coming with blk-3 (or even blk-2s). The answer could lie in what proportion of Pl-15s potential can each of the three platforms exploit (blk-2, blk-3 and J-10s). The Chinese could simply be playing their part to ensure their top missile comes out shining when it is used in anger for the first time.

P.S. lets not doubt the intention of our friends, China has never treated us like murica has.

PL-10 is an IR missile. I don't see the conflict with the PL-15 here.

 

[ziaulislam]

Wait, no IRST for Blk3?

Seems PAF was never interested in it

Jf17 philosophy is maximum cost saving..

I think that philosophy has translated even in block3

 

[CIA Mole]

Seems PAF was never interested in it

Jf17 philosophy is maximum cost saving..

I think that philosophy has translated even in block3

best to stick with blk 3 and cost effective defense until $1 trillion nominal GDP

 

[ziaulislam]

For comparison LCA 83 aircraft will cost 6.5b$
With additional 500m$ for ground support/logistics

 

[Path-Finder]

rocket assisted SDB with the range of +120 km will give a new capability to PAF but as of now there is NO News in open source about PAF interest in this capability ..... so we could only speculate about this .....

denel raptor 3 boasts range of upto 300KM! but its not SDB but a glide bomb with ALCM range!

 

[Marker]

So it seems to me that only way out is Project AZAM

Are we utilizing our same formula for JF17 and experiences of JF17 to do AZAM or next gen?

JF-17 project is a stepping stone for further progression in Pakistani military aviation.