Japan, faced with rising China, shifts its strategy

[NiceGuy]

I do not mind you are bing supernationalistic about Vietnam, but you need to get the fact right.

Vietnam and Thai were NEVER OFFICIALLY at war. What there were is a 3 way fight Vietnam-Laos-Thailand, yes, there are slight harassment of the Thai border and we does support the Thais which support the Laos to form the Khmer People's National Liberation Front. Why we have to fight a war where the allied of our allied is fighting.........Then we will be the allied of the allied of the allied, how complicate is that?

That does not mean if Vietnam were to incurse into Thailand, we will lay down our arms, Vietnamese know that, no matter how much they want, they are refrinted from doing that (Entering Thai border) as they know that will be different than in Vietnam war. If Vietnam was as strong as you said then and Thailand is as weak as you said, Vietnam should have invaded Thailand instead of Laos. As Thailand, not Laos is the problem of Khmer Rogue.

.

Dude, we did invade Thailand, captured her hills, and you US just stayed outside, screaming and supporting more weapons and supplies to China to keep attacking us in the North border in order to forces us to withdraw from ThaiLand.

Without those idiot PLA who willing to die for US's purpose , then Thailand would fal into our hands already, bcz US soldiers didn't wanna fight with us anymore.

March 7: Thai army troops supported by artillery and U.S.-supplied A-37 Dragonfly aircraft recaptured three hills seized May 5 by intruding Vietnamese soldiers. Hundreds of Vietnamese were said to have been driven back across the border into Cambodia. However, the Vietnamese counterattacked against Hill 361 on Thai soil behind the besieged Cambodian guerrilla base at Tatum, and the results of the battle were not immediately clear. 14 Thai soldiers and 15 Thai civilians had been killed
Vietnamese border raids in Thailand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What Operation linebacker 2 is to bring Hanoi back to the negotiation table. I would understand if you say if we did nothing before Operation Linebacker 2, then it will be a military defeat to the American, but the fact is, after tets, we know the South is not fighting (When you see insurgent penetrate through their heart of land, you know) we have been going for a way out after Tet Offensive. The problem is, the North want an incedable demand and a lot of compensation. While United states will not cave and North Vietnamese left. Everytime they wanted more, we bomb them instead, you could have stayed out of the negotiation if this does not match your goal, but what operation linebacker 2 did it main job, reign you guys back to negotiation table.

I just wanna prove that US did attack North VN, but lost and have to withdraw. When you said: 'we act as their defend' is wrong, you attacked but failed .

In whole Vietnam is just a game to American, we go over there, kill some Vietcong, come back, we did nothing but killing people. And we are good at it, the problem is, Vietnam is not our soil, if South were to win, they need to fight, the fact is they don't, then unless we stay there indefinitely, there are no way South can exist if they gave up already. We saw that, and we said we have enough.

I don't deny it, once day, when we're strong enough, we will pay back to your children ,that's fair, right.

You can't be super power forver, that's why we're still keeping tight friendship with Cuba-Iran-North Korea. Once day, some missile from Cuba will reach to your soil and kill your children, who's know

Well, i very much doubt North Vietnamese army are any better than US Army, even with our potheads we still enjoy a 20 to 1 kill rato (North Vietnam/VC lost 20 for every american lost) and you are up against our pothead don't forget.

We have perfect spies and many of them now are in American to ruin your country, when your spies can't do the same, so our army are far better than your coz we can ruin you day by day but you can't, right.

 

[jhungary]

Dude, we did invade Thailand, captured her hills, and you US just stay outside, screaming and supporting more weapons and supplies to China to keep attacking us in the North border in order to forces us to withdraw from ThaiLand.

Without those idiot PLA who willing to die for US's purpose , then Thailand would fal into our hands already, bcz US soldiers wouldn't wanna fight with us anymore.


I just wanna prove that US did attack North VN, but lost and have to withdraw. When you said: 'we act as their defend' is wrong, you attacked but failed .

I don't deny it, once day, when we're strong enough, we will pay back to your children ,that's fair, right.

You can't be super power forver, that's why we're still keeping tight friendship with Cuba-Iran-North Korea. Once day, some missile from Cuba will reach to your soil and kill your children, who's know

LOL you call that mountain fight is a war, that wasn't even well documented, as i said, that is border conflict at best, you call that a war is your business, but most will just classified them as border conflict, Thai can clean up their own border, why do you need the American.

About the Defense posture, american were always acting on defensive side of the south, we have only 3 or 4 incursion outside South Vietnam. If a war have been fought for 8 year with only 3 or 4 exclusion, how do you classified as offensive operation??

As i said before Both Linebacker were conducted to bring the NVA back the negotiation table. If you are ok being bomb then you should ignore us and let US wither and die in South Vietnam, but the fact that you come back to the table after both Linebacker, that mean our bombing work. And we did not lose anything to you and gave in your demand (Do you even know what N.VN ask for in 1969 in order for us to retreat? and do you know what the north settle with??)

I would love to have the Viet to taste their own medicine, you can come and invade us, but see how your navy and airforce fare. I don't mind if you want to kill our children, the problem is, can you?

We occupied half of Cuba now, we have our Naval base in Cuba, don't ever forget that, and we will nuke you and all the Iran and North Korea can do is stand there and watch, Iran does not have any nuclear weapon, and the North Korea only can deliver payload to 2500 kms, not even able to attack hawai'i If you want to talk about the missile.

I have my patient about how fanboy trolling, Chinese or Vietnamese or otherwise. You can believe Tiny Vietnam can come to America and kill our children, i can believe America can nuke Vietnam back to stone age, we have enough nuke to nuke all the vietnam from top to bottom for over 1000 times, do you want to try our missile??

If i were you, take good care of the Chinese first, you don't want to fight the Chinese and American at the same time, this is my advise, in the meantime, you can fanboy troll whatever you like.

 

[NiceGuy]

LOL you call that mountain fight is a war, that wasn't even well documented, as i said, that is border conflict at best, you call that a war is your business, but most will just classified them as border conflict, Thai can clean up their own border, why do you need the American.

North-South Korea also just have border conflict, so why US army is so eager to help S.K , and have alot of strong warning to NK ?? Why didn't US just keep quiet and do Nothing like what they did to Thailand ?? It's just a border conflict only, N.K haven't captured any S.K's hill like VN did to Thai yet.

As i said before Both Linebacker were conducted to bring the NVA back the negotiation table. If you are ok being bomb then you should ignore us and let US wither and die in South Vietnam, but the fact that you come back to the table after both Linebacker, that mean our bombing work. And we did not lose anything to you and gave in your demand (Do you even know what N.VN ask for in 1969 in order for us to retreat? and do you know what the north settle with??)

We came back and just signed a 'Retreat request' for you, so you can leave your @$$ out of VN in one piece. We always treat those coward from Big country nicely like what we've done to China army thousand years ago, dude.

I would love to have the Viet to taste their own medicine, you can come and invade us, but see how your navy and airforce fare. I don't mind if you want to kill our children, the problem is, can you?

We send our perfect spies to your country to bribe your corrupted officers and to ruin your country, that's also the way to defeat you, and you can't do anything but sit and watch your country is ruining day by day

We occupied half of Cuba now, we have our Naval base in Cuba, don't ever forget that, and we will nuke you and all the Iran and North Korea can do is stand there and watch, Iran does not have any nuclear weapon, and the North Korea only can deliver payload to 2500 kms, not even able to attack hawai'i If you want to talk about the missile.

Just like you took half VN, but once day, you will run away from Cuba. You don't dare to nuke us bcz if you dared, you would do it in Vn war already, US is not the only one have Nuke, dude. Remember 'Cuban missile crisis' ?? History can happen again

If i were you, take good care of the Chinese first, you don't want to fight the Chinese and American at the same time, this is my advise, in the meantime, you can fanboy troll whatever you like.

Chinese is easy meat to beat, she learned a very hard lesson in 1979 already when her'mighty' PLA willing to surrender to our women. Ruinning America by our spies is the better idea to strengthen our power. As u can see, US still wanna be friend with us even when we just shaked hands firmly with Iran, it show that our spies are doing well to ruin US

 

[jhungary]

North-South Korea also just have border conflict, so why US army is so eager to help S.K , and have alot of strong warning to NK ?? Why didn't US just keep quiet and do Nothing like what they did to Thailand ?? It's just a border conflict only, N.K haven't captured any S.K's hill like VN did to Thai yet.

Dude, South Korea were nearly extincted by the North Korean, the North were invade as south as Pusan, which just about 50KM from the sea, if Pusan was gone, so does South Korea. That was an all out war. Vietnamese and Thai were never 20 mile into each territories, those are different. How can you not see that. Can you see the differnet between border coflict and an all out war??

We came back and just signed a 'Retreat request' for you, so you can leave your @$$ out of VN in one piece. We always treat those coward from Big country nicely like what we've done to China army thousand years ago, dude.

Dude, you obiviously did not aware what North Vietnamese Want and what North Vietnamese get, you don't just want us gone, you want something more, a lot more. We are not coward, we simply lost interested. We come, we kill some people, we go, that's how we rolled. Remember, the war happened in your backyard, will a coward start a war in someone else backyard?

We send our perfect spies to your country to bribe your corrupted officers and to ruin your country, that's also the way to defeat you, and you can't do anything but sit and watch your country is ruining day by day

lol we still have enough to deal with Viet threat if they were to invade US in the near future, we can still kick das butt when you come here with your little steam boat, just try to relax and enjoy the ride.

Just like you took half VN, but once day, you will run away from Cuba. You don't dare to nuke us bcz if you dared, you would do it in Vn war already, US is not the only one have Nuke, dude. Remember 'Cuban missile crisis' ?? History can happen again

Umm... if you don't see it, RUSSIA BACK DOWN, WE WON THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS. That's how we got that piece of Naval Base, i would love to see Viet Navy, however small come try and take it away from us. Really, i am waiting.

I have no idea why you keep mentioning a conflict the US is the winner in the end, did the missile drop from Cuba? No, did the Cuban still have them Missile? No. Did Soviet still exist? NO!!!!

Lol vietnam still think Russia will put you into their nuclear umbella?? Lol they don't even want to sell you the latest fighter, and who did it went to? Right, China and India. Russian will not even shed a drop of tear if Vietnam got nuked either by US or by Chinese. They will be like, oh well, there goes the customer for a small potion of Su-27 and Su-30, oh well, we better ask Indian and China to buy more then.

Chinese is easy meat to beat, she learned a very hard lesson in 1979 already when her'mighty' PLA willing to surrender to our women. Ruinning America by our spies is the better idea to strengthen our power. As u can see, US still wanna be friend with us even when we just shaked hands firmly with Iran, it show that our spies are doing well to ruin US

Your spies did nothing but got played by the pentagon, how else you will heard from him then. Oh, and what did your country do after his triumpth return to Vietnam? YOU PUT HIM ON A RE-EDUCATION CAMP for helping the CIA man Tran Kim Tuyen. LOL perfect spy...........really laugh my arse off.

If we have spy in Vietnam, which we does and you will never hear from them as that what is a Success espionage should be. We know the up and downs and bottoms of your country, try to take the Sansha first by froce from the Chinese first, then expand to the Pacific, how else can you called a sucessful nation if your own land is still being occupied by the Foreign Entity?? For future reference, please fix SCS first, then pacific then you can talk about conquering the United States.

I will be waiting, but i will probably be around for another 50 years, so you have to be hurry.

Come try and enter the EEZ within US, you will got blown out of the sea without us US Navy thinking twice. Well, myabe USCG is enough to stop you VN Navy.

There are limit of Fanboyism, i respect Vietnam but you sir, is the worse. See if your Vietnam compatriot will help defend you from this

 

[NiceGuy]

Dude, South Korea were nearly extincted by the North Korean, the North were invade as south as Pusan, which just about 50KM from the sea, if Pusan was gone, so does South Korea. That was an all out war. Vietnamese and Thai were never 20 mile into each territories, those are different. How can you not see that. Can you see the differnet between border coflict and an all out war??

NK is a damn poor country with so many men starving every day, how can she harm SK with all out attack now ?? Can you believe a starving man can kill Mike Tyson with his bare hand ??? What's an excuse for coward action in the past

Dude, you obiviously did not aware what North Vietnamese Want and what North Vietnamese get, you don't just want us gone, you want something more, a lot more. We are not coward, we simply lost interested. We come, we kill some people, we go, that's how we rolled. Remember, the war happened in your backyard, will a coward start a war in someone else backyard?

What we want more ?? Killing more US soldiers ?? Or compensastion for war ...oh, US is paying us now.

US launches Agent Orange clean-up at Vietnam's Da Nang Airport ...
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...australia.net.au/.../us...agent-orange-cleanu... - Dịch trang này
9 Aug 2012 – More than 30 years after the end of hostilities, work is about to begin on cleaning up the poisonous legacy of the Vietnam War.

US funds Agent Orange clean-up at Vietnam's Da Nang airport ...
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...australia.net.au/.../us...agent-orange-cleanu... - Dịch trang này
1 Aug 2012 – During the Vietnam War, what's now known as Da Nang International Airport was a major storage depot for Agent Orange - one of the powerful ...

Umm... if you don't see it, RUSSIA BACK DOWN, WE WON THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS. That's how we got that piece of Naval Base, i would love to see Viet Navy, however small come try and take it away from us. Really, i am waiting


Lol vietnam still think Russia will put you into their nuclear umbella?? Lol they don't even want to sell you the latest fighter, and who did it went to? Right, China and India. Russian will not even shed a drop of tear if Vietnam got nuked either by US or by Chinese. They will be like, oh well, there goes the customer for a small potion of Su-27 and Su-30, oh well, we better ask Indian and China to buy more then.

You won't Cuban crisis doesn't mean you won't the whole game, it haven't Ended yet, Cuba is still there and wait for your Doom day to pay back, dude.

Poor you, you don't even know that US allow us to enrich uranium that can make Nuke bomb in our soil when we're also prepare to ruin US ?? See how our spies are doing before acting like cheap clown here, dude

Your spies did nothing but got played by the pentagon, how else you will heard from him then.

If we have spy in Vietnam, which we does and you will never hear from them as that what is a Success espionage should be. We know the up and downs and bottoms of your country, try to take the Sansha first by froce from the Chinese first, then expand to the Pacific, how else can you called a sucessful nation if your own land is still being occupied by the Foreign Entity?? For future reference, please fix SCS first, then pacific then you can talk about conquering the United States.

I will be waiting, but i will probably be around for another 50 years, so you have to be hurry

Our perfect spies followed those exiled South Vnese to come to US .Fighting with China for some barren and useless rock in SCS(east sea) is Bad idea, ruining US by our spies and forces them to server for our benefit is much more better. That's why we can enrich uranium even when we still wanna destroy US

Just keep waiting, we're patient men , we will pay back in right time, for now, just let Taliban kill you guys first :p

 

[jhungary]

NK is a damn poor country with so many men starving every day, how can she harm SK with all out attack now ?? Can you believe a starving man can kill Mike Tyson with his bare hand ??? What's an excuse for coward action in the past

Are you For real??

You better read this buddy. You say North Korean is poor and cannot harm the South Korean? It sure does NOT look like it in the summer of 1950

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

red is what North Korea have and Green is what South Korea have, can you still say the north was no harm to the south??

What we want more ?? Killing more US soldiers ?? Or compensastion for war ...oh, US is paying us now.

so, you are saying you don't know then, please read it up before trolling

Plus, we have kill more Vietnamese then Veitnamese kill enough of US. You lost way way WAY more people then we. Don't ever forget that.

You won't Cuban crisis doesn't mean you won't the whole game, it haven't Ended yet, and Cuba is still and wait for your Doom day to pay back, dude.

lol, first, it's won, not won't. Second, as i said, i am waiting to see what Cuban+Vietnamese can do, but again, hurry, i think i only have 50 years to live, maybe less. I cannot testiment if nothing happened in my lifetime.

Poor you, you don't even know that US allow us to enrich uranium that can make Nuke bomb in our soil when we're also prepare to ruin US ?? See how our spies are doing before acting like cheap clown here, dude

Lol, then where is your nuclear bomb, nuclear power station nor nuclear reactor? You don't even have missile that can fly more than 1000 mile. How ar eyou gonna drop your payload to us? LOL

Our perfect spies followed those exiled South Vnese to come to US .Fighting with China for some barren and useless rock in SCS(east sea) is Bad idea, ruining US by our spies and forces them to server for our benefit is much more better. That's why we can enrich uranium even when we still wanna destroy US

LOL again, your perfect spies go to jail in YOUR OWN COUNTRY after he return, either he is not too perfect, or your country is seriously f'ed up. Take your pick.
Man, i have enough trolling with you. You wanna open a Vietnam war thread i can mate you in three if you want to, but i don't really want to further derail this thread, so i am ignoring you from now on.

 

[NiceGuy]

You wanna open a Vietnam war thread i can mate you in three if you want to, but i don't really want to further derail this thread, so i am ignoring you from now on.

Okay, so let continue if you're interested here
http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-photos-multimedia/148784-vietnam-war-8.html

back to the topic : commissar always have a very important role in the army, just like Taliban Muslim preacher, they will keep soldiers in high morale so that they don't have to use heroin like US soldiers to ease their stress when going to battle field.

 

[Pak2]

China has repeatedly taken aggressive actions to force its imperial design on its small and powerless neighbors then the world.
China's expansionist policy is to force a fiat accomplish with the gunboat policy of the 19th century and impose its diktat to the region. The world would raise their voice and demand China to respect the international laws and behave as a respectable second superpower. China will soon claim sovereignty over the Pakistan and Bangle.

 

[T-Rex]

China has repeatedly taken aggressive actions to force its imperial design on its small and powerless neighbors then the world.
China's expansionist policy is to force a fiat accomplish with the gunboat policy of the 19th century and impose its diktat to the region. The world would raise their voice and demand China to respect the international laws and behave as a respectable second superpower. China will soon claim sovereignty over the Pakistan and Bangle.

The spokesperson of uncle sam and the zionazis talks about the international laws, now, that is the joke of the day!

 

[Minjitta]

Reported OFF TOPIC NiceGuy, and jhungary

 

[jhungary]

Reported OFF TOPIC NiceGuy, and jhungary

lol, and i just reported your post of reporting me and niceguy off topic...........

China has repeatedly taken aggressive actions to force its imperial design on its small and powerless neighbors then the world.
China's expansionist policy is to force a fiat accomplish with the gunboat policy of the 19th century and impose its diktat to the region. The world would raise their voice and demand China to respect the international laws and behave as a respectable second superpower. China will soon claim sovereignty over the Pakistan and Bangle.

The problem is, Japan have a serious disvantage here when compare to any other country in Asia. That is after they have lost the WW2, they are limited to defensive role.

The problem is, the law is set forth after the WW2 and in the 50s, today, limiting a naval force into 30 surface ship is just a joke. Yes, Japan can never be an agressor again, but that does not equal to they have to limit their force to a point they have problem defending themselve.

I seriously think Japan should rethink their constitution and make one that make sense today. The situation warrant now is not the same situation there were when they signed the document 70 years ago.

 

[Audio]

The problem is, the law is set forth after the WW2 and in the 50s, today, limiting a naval force into 30 surface ship is just a joke. Yes, Japan can never be an agressor again, but that does not equal to they have to limit their force to a point they have problem defending themselve.

They have more....+things described as helicopter destroyers, which are basically helicopter carriers which they are prohibited to have by the post WWII accords...

 

[119ENG]

I live in Japan and it's quite scary. The Japanese Navy doesn't have enough ships to defend itself. It's quite a joke really. Well put jhungary

 

[jhungary]

They have more....+things described as helicopter destroyers, which are basically helicopter carriers which they are prohibited to have by the post WWII accords...

This is kind of a grey area if you ask me.

yes, the "Helicopter Destroyer" is actually a LHA, but if you consider the term "Aircraft Carrier" then even a Normal DDG with 2 Hanger spaces should also be classified as Aircraft carrier....as they carry aircraft. So as a general rule, aircraft carrier are the ship that contain Fighter/Bomber aircraft.

For US it is true in the case as the USN's LHA are to carry Harrier (Same as to RN and IN Aircraft carrier) , but for JMSDF, it is just a ship that purely 4 helicopter

The grey area exist as long as the Helicopter destroyer only carry helicopter, which is what the JMSDF is currently doing. And the Current Ise and Hyuga class are also to designed so no fully armed VTOL aircraft can take off since the lack of a ski jump. Which it essentially, if you put a Av-8B or F-35B on it, it can use as a transport ship only, or you can lonly launch an unarmed or slightly armed Harrier or F-35B.

I live in Japan and it's quite scary. The Japanese Navy doesn't have enough ships to defend itself. It's quite a joke really. Well put jhungary

yeah, the JMSDF is just a token force with about 30 surface combat ship making the bulk of the force. With the current constitution, there are no room for JMSDF to expand, the threat has increased however, yet the defense stayed the same. If they are to continue this road ahead, they may as well just fold the JMSDF and transfer all the ship to USN and totally relied on USN for protection. Yes, it's a joke.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Japanese major investors confirm strong commitment to Indonesia
Linda Yulisman, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta | Headlines | Wed, December 05 2012, 10:16 AM


As Indonesia’s economy expands at an impressive rate, Japanese investors are committed to bringing more investment into the country while expecting Indonesia to improve its basic infrastructure, particularly in industrial estates, to cater to the needs of the firms, according to a business association.

“In general, the size of investment from Japan will rise and accelerate. I am sure that as investment comes in, infrastructure is a must and therefore, we ask the Indonesian government to provide sufficient infrastructure,” Japan Indonesia Association chairman Yasuo Fukuda said on Tuesday in Jakarta after meeting Industry Minister MS Hidayat at his office.

Fukuda, who is the former Japanese prime minister, is visiting Indonesia along with dozens of top Japanese executives of reputable firms, such as the Japan Gas Corporation (JGC) and Chiyoda Corporation, to explore new business opportunities and discuss ways to solve major bottlenecks hampering the business climate with the government.

The government welcomed the commitment and would seek ways of addressing the concerns voiced by the Japanese businesspeople, said Hidayat after the meeting.

Regarding land provision, the government would prepare a new industrial estate in Karawang, West Java, where major Japanese automotive manufacturers were largely concentrated, he added.

“We will prepare an area of 3,000 hectares in Karawang that will serve as a center for the automotive and electronics industries,” he said.

Apart from that, the government planned to build a new seaport, the location of which it was yet to specify, to cater for the increasing need to transport goods as requested by Japanese firms, Hidayat added.

Several Japanese firms, like JGC, are also looking into possibilities to form joint ventures with local firms to set up a stronger presence in the country, according to Hidayat.

Indonesia’s automotive boom in the past year has attracted global automotive firms, mostly Japanese firms, to pour in more investment in a bid to tap further into the country’s fast-growing four-wheel and two-wheel markets, which this year are estimated to hit 1.1 million cars and 7 million motorcycles respectively.

Japan’s top automaker, Toyota Motor Corporation, for example, has reaffirmed its commitment to Indonesia by investing up to Rp 13 trillion (US$1.35 billion) within the next five years for a range of expansion activities in Southeast Asia’s biggest automobile market.

This significant investment has pushed the country’s spare parts and component makers to set up manufacturing facilities in areas near the production sites of the major automotive makers.

Investment in spare parts and components manufacturing is estimated to reach $2.4 billion this year, according to statistics from the Industry Ministry.

The ministry’s director general for international industry cooperation Agus Tjahajana said that some Japanese firms had shown interest in investing in coal liquefaction as well as in the engineering, procurement and construction sectors to build oil and gas infrastructure, petrochemical plants and other manufacturing sites.

During the January-September period this year, Japan poured around $1.8 billion in investment into Indonesia, making it the second top investor after Singapore.