Istambul - Islamabad Connection with Istambul Frigate

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The Istanbul-class frigates are a planned group of four frigates for the Turkish Naval Forces. Developed under the MILGEM national warship program as the TF-100-class frigate, the Istanbul class is an enlarged variant of the Ada class anti-submarine corvette, with enhanced endurance and the fitting of a Mark 41 vertical launch system for a multi-role capability. Also known as the I-class frigate and the MILGEM-G-class frigate, the nameship of the class was cut first steel on 19 January 2017, keel laid on 3 July 2017, and is expected to commission in 2021



Is Pakistan Navy getting the Ada or MILGEM Istambul Frigates?


What does the delivery timeline looks like considering the ship won't join Turkish Navy till 2021

Based on initial notes on Wiki , Turkey will fill it's own requirements for it's Navy need
It would signal a potential 2025 date for Pakistan unless Turkish program can manufacture the ships at faster pace

What would be our delivery time-frame if the ships are ordered in case TOT is involved with Pakistan making few ships locally


When is the Order being made ?
When is Delivery happening ?

 

[Umair Nawaz]

no.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Istanbul is a no. What you might be reading in the news is the Saudi deal and not the Pakistani procurement. Furthermore, in another post I have specified that the VLS is built around the Evolved Sea Sparrow which can not be sold to Pakistan being a non NATO country.

Any R&D on the VLS would require a lot of time and costs. PN will rather go for an Italian main gun (already ordered), Turkish secondary armament, Most probably Chinese AShM, TF300 instead of the RAM and a Turkish CWIS in the ADA.

The challenge would be to sync the varied armament with on-board radar, control and management systems.

It is ADA.... we can dream about the Istanbul till the cows come home!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Why don't we just get the Ada corvettes instead if the Istambul ships will take some time and just not worry about the VLS

However I would like the 5 Ship order to be for Pakistan (Istambul frigates)

We can get the ships and sort out the VLS aspect once they arrive from partner countries

Since Pakistan likes to orders weapons which have been in service for some time, the ADA corvettes would still be a good fit

4-5 Istambul Frigates in Pakistan Navy , would be fantastic option and by 2020-2022 I would imagine Turkey itself would have their own SAM for ships

The story of Saudia purchasing something on side has clouded the news somewhat what is happening with our orders

Can't say the news about Ships did not hit the national news

https://nation.com.pk/29-Nov-2017/pakistan-close-to-deal-for-four-turkish-warships

ISLAMABAD - Pakistan is giving final touches to its deal for acquisition of four warships from Turkish state-owned company MILGEM, sources said on Tuesday.

Sources said that process was nearing completion and construction of the ships would start in the near future.

As part of the prospective deal, two ships are likely to be constructed in Turkey, while two are likely to be constructed at Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works (KSEW).

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

If not various statements by STM (about Pakistan getting the Ada corvette), the purchase of the Type 054A should effectively puts an end to thoughts about the I-Class. The I-Class and Type 054A were each designed to serve the same core function. Since we've selected the Type 054A, we should keep an eye on the long-term: we now have a platform that can carry VLS, which in turn means one day we can upgrade the ships with a medium-to-long-range SAM (e.g. if available: Russian Redut/9M96E2, Chinese HQ-26 or Turkish-Eurosam LR-SAM).

The real question was whether the PN was getting the Ada as-is or a variant of the Ada with VLS for a short-to-medium-range SAM (e.g. Aster-15 or Umkhonto IR). That's why the STM LF-2400 (i.e. the Ada with VLS) was a neat idea, but with the Type 054A always in the pipeline, fitting these smaller boats with their own area-wide air defence wasn't needed (they'll operate under the Type 054A's coverage).

That said, if - hypothetically - we picked the LF-2400 or even I-Class, we wouldn't need a US or European VLS + SAM system. We could just go to Sweden (radars) and South Africa (Umkhonto), just like the Algerian Navy did for its MEKO A-200ANs.

Back to reality ... the future fleet composition is probably as follows:

1 Type 054A (command ship + AAW) working with 2 F-22P or Ada (for AShW+ASW). So we're looking at 4 squadrons, each with 3 frigates (i.e. 1 AAW + 2 AShW+ASW).

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

After Pakistan-Turkey's historic agreement for T-129 Helicopter Gunship, the largest order for Turkish Defense Industry , another Historic weapons deal for the ship is close on cards

4x Ada Corvettes ~ appear more realistic option due to timelines
4x Istambul ~ possible but not yet inducted in Turkish navy


Since the deal is 2 ships in Turkey and 2 in Pakistan , the timeline factor could be done
I would not imagine , Turkey would not have a backup plan for SAM missiles for it's own navy ship

 

[Zulfiqar]

We are most probably going for Ada. However, it lacks SAM of adequate range. Perhaps, if external bulkhead around the hangar is modified then the ship manufacturer can fit in 8x Hisar O missiles like in below image.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We could get the Istambul Frigate ships and just integrate the VLS SAMs in future for starter we can commence with 8 missile launchers like F22P

Get operational ship in first stage with Surface based SAM on deck and then do a minor upgrade tweak for VLS down the line with Turkey

ADA are too close to our Azmat platform which we already make locally

The real improvement would be the Istambul Frigate with it's own Turkish SAM systems

 

[Tank131]

We could get the Istambul Frigate ships and just integrate the VLS SAMs in future for starter we can commence with 8 missile launchers like F22P

Get operational ship in first stage with Surface based SAM on deck and then do a minor upgrade tweak for VLS down the line with Turkey

ADA are too close to our Azmat platform which we already make locally

The real improvement would be the Istambul Frigate with it's own Turkish SAM systems

My friend, you cannot compare a 560t Azmat to a 2400t Ada. They are very different. Ada primarily is a sub-hunter come Anti-ship frigate. I wish it was such that PN would fit it with a 16 cell vls (either I-class or LF-2400), but that is highly unlikely. It will likely be fit with 21 cell FL-3000N and probably 2 gun style CIWS. Even F-22P will not see any significant changes thou i would hope tbey would at least consider adding 6 HQ-10 missiles (same missile from FL-3000N) to each CIWS gun (for 12 additional missiles) and replace FM90/HQ-7A with an 8 missile box (like the LY-60 Box on Type-21s) using a longer ranged missile like FM-3000 (35km range).

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Boy did not realize the weight difference was so big Ada is quite deceptive on it's size and weight I thought it was approximately same size as Azmat from general visual observation

93 Meters and 2500 Tons appears big enough at Frigate level but not quite

Minimum adjustment would have to be 8-18 missiles on board for Air engagement

 

[Aamir Hussain]

AzadPakistan2009.....it took KSEW from Dec 2009 to April 2013 to make one F22p frigate! ADA is another ball game altogether. I don't see those hulls that will be built in KSEW coming out at a fast pace.

 

[Tank131]

AzadPakistan2009.....it took KSEW from Dec 2009 to April 2013 to make one F22p frigate! ADA is another ball game altogether. I don't see those hulls that will be built in KSEW coming out at a fast pace.

That a bit misleading though, it was laid down in 2009 amd launched in 2011, comissioned in 2013. But.PNS Saif (3rd) was laid down in 2008, launched in 2009 and commissioned in 2010, so they are capable of buildong it faster. The chinese built ships (F-22p) took 3 years and 2 years respectively from laying down to commission. It depends how much manpower is dedicated to it... The chinese were more focused on 054As than F-22p so it took more time.

 

[Ghessan]

i'm a layman hence looking for information.
over S400 purchase as tensions probably leading to Nato break up with Turkey, few Milgem equipment are being sourced.
would that impact Pak Navy procurement and in what manner?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

That a bit misleading though, it was laid down in 2009 amd launched in 2011, comissioned in 2013. But.PNS Saif (3rd) was laid down in 2008, launched in 2009 and commissioned in 2010, so they are capable of buildong it faster. The chinese built ships (F-22p) took 3 years and 2 years respectively from laying down to commission. It depends how much manpower is dedicated to it... The chinese were more focused on 054As than F-22p so it took more time.

The Chinese were churning out Type 54A Frigates three per year on an average! They are capable. What I was referring to was the time it took to commission PNS Aslat, the fourth and the last frigate which was built in Pakistan by KSEW for PN.

The writer of the post was hoping for a fast track build for the ADA Class in Pakistan along with those that will be produced in Turkey. IMO and based upon past record for last frigate sized build by KSEW, a fast build is not going to happen.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Valid point about production rate , we still have not finished our 4th Azmat Missile boat , quite slow progress for such a tiny ship

But we did recently finished a tug boat an that is ok as well before we make big ships we need the Tug boat

For a country with 200 million population and big labour force , the turn around time for ships is a bit under par