Israel Suffered a Double Defeat

[Wright]

Hamas succeeded in:
- bringing international attention to Palestine.
- winning widespread support from Palestinians and citizens of surrounding countries by 'standing' up to Israel.
- sidelining Abbas and Fatah ahead of the U.N application.
- forcing Israel to bomb Gaza to radicalize Palestinians and turning them over to Hamas.
- widen the rift between Israel and surrounding nations and sow the seeds of the next conflict between Israeli jews and Arabs.

Hamas was probably hoping for Israel to invade Gaza as well, as that would have helped their cause immeasurably due to the projected body count that would have been inflicted on Palestinians.

It would have been a punitive expedition by Israel, and they would have never been able to destroy Hamas competely. The mere act of surviving an Israel invasion would boost Hamas' power and the effect of the invasion would be utterly disastrous on the international opinion of Israel.

Hence, Israel would have lost no matter what action they take, but they would lose much more if the invasion went ahead.

I think Israel counts wins and losses by the number of deaths and infastructural damage. Hamas apparently does not, as they are willing to sacrifice their people to make such a "statement to the international community".

Most countries, aside from China and the Muslim world agreed that Israel has a right to defend itself. Even Obama, which surprised me.

 

[fallstuff]

Hamas succeeded in:
- bringing international attention to Palestine.
- winning widespread support from Palestinians and citizens of surrounding countries by 'standing' up to Israel.
- sidelining Abbas and Fatah ahead of the U.N application.
- forcing Israel to bomb Gaza to radicalize Palestinians and turning them over to Hamas.
- widen the rift between Israel and surrounding nations and sow the seeds of the next conflict between Israeli jews and Arabs.

Hamas was probably hoping for Israel to invade Gaza as well, as that would have helped their cause immeasurably due to the projected body count that would have been inflicted on Palestinians.

It would have been a punitive expedition by Israel, and they would have never been able to destroy Hamas competely. The mere act of surviving an Israel invasion would boost Hamas' power and the effect of the invasion would be utterly disastrous on the international opinion of Israel.

Hence, Israel would have lost no matter what action they take, but they would lose much more if the invasion went ahead.

Very well said.

 

[jhungary]

Hamas succeeded in:
- bringing international attention to Palestine.
- winning widespread support from Palestinians and citizens of surrounding countries by 'standing' up to Israel.
- sidelining Abbas and Fatah ahead of the U.N application.
- forcing Israel to bomb Gaza to radicalize Palestinians and turning them over to Hamas.
- widen the rift between Israel and surrounding nations and sow the seeds of the next conflict between Israeli jews and Arabs.

Hamas was probably hoping for Israel to invade Gaza as well, as that would have helped their cause immeasurably due to the projected body count that would have been inflicted on Palestinians.

It would have been a punitive expedition by Israel, and they would have never been able to destroy Hamas competely. The mere act of surviving an Israel invasion would boost Hamas' power and the effect of the invasion would be utterly disastrous on the international opinion of Israel.

Hence, Israel would have lost no matter what action they take, but they would lose much more if the invasion went ahead.

The problem with your theory is, even Arab state do not want to regonise HAMAS as the leader of Gaza, so what HAMAS doing is nothing out of attention seeking.

Another one fact is, Israel have stop harrasing GAZA ever since Fatah took GAZA and demilitarize Gaza and only react to HAMAS threats after HAMAS sieze power from battle of Gaza in 2007. General attutide of Palestinian citizens are Hostile toward HAMAS (while they are hating Israel as well) But the problem with it is, as long as HAMAS still in control of Gaza strip, this would mean there are chance that Israeli will comeback to Gaza and establish Military checkpoint and settlement again, i can assure you, this is not what a normal Palestinian want.

So when HAMAS keep doing stuff like that, either there will be another Civil war (or military operation) in Gaza strip or Israel will invade Gaza again. Which is something not everyone wants, including the Israeli.

So in the end, nothing change except that if HAMAS keep on pressuring Israel, it will seperate the power fraction toward HAMAS in Gaza. Which will be a bad thing for HAMAS as they are not only to face Israel but also normal palestinian as well.

Looking back to Israel, Israel do not care about International opinion, as long as rocket fires at them from Gaza, they see it as a defensive measure to go in to Gaza and destroy those rocket, soldier do die because of this but they could also be dead by rocket fire or suicide bomber from HAMAS, there are no lost there. Situation is the same with Israel, rocket will be again fired from Gaza into Israeli in a few month, and people again die because of it, but this time only with less a couple of hundreds of Rocket and a few rocket launcher or launch site, nothing have changed for the Israeli.

 

[Icecreamcart]

The problem with your theory is, even Arab state do not want to regonise HAMAS as the leader of Gaza, so what HAMAS doing is nothing out of attention seeking.

Another one fact is, Israel have stop harrasing GAZA ever since Fatah took GAZA and demilitarize Gaza and only react to HAMAS threats after HAMAS sieze power from battle of Gaza in 2007. General attutide of Palestinian citizens are Hostile toward HAMAS (while they are hating Israel as well) But the problem with it is, as long as HAMAS still in control of Gaza strip, this would mean there are chance that Israeli will comeback to Gaza and establish Military checkpoint and settlement again, i can assure you, this is not what a normal Palestinian want.

So when HAMAS keep doing stuff like that, either there will be another Civil war (or military operation) in Gaza strip or Israel will invade Gaza again. Which is something not everyone wants, including the Israeli.

So in the end, nothing change except that if HAMAS keep on pressuring Israel, it will seperate the power fraction toward HAMAS in Gaza. Which will be a bad thing for HAMAS as they are not only to face Israel but also normal palestinian as well.

Looking back to Israel, Israel do not care about International opinion, as long as rocket fires at them from Gaza, they see it as a defensive measure to go in to Gaza and destroy those rocket, soldier do die because of this but they could also be dead by rocket fire or suicide bomber from HAMAS, there are no lost there. Situation is the same with Israel, rocket will be again fired from Gaza into Israeli in a few month, and people again die because of it, but this time only with less a couple of hundreds of Rocket and a few rocket launcher or launch site, nothing have changed for the Israeli.

The recent action by Hamas allows them to gain political legitimacy from Palestinians and more funding by its backers. The more radical wing of Hamas are able to exert more influence and they are emboldened to continue their current stance. This can be seen both as a win and loss to Israel as they can use Hamas to justify their existing policies and sink any peace negotiation with Fatah. Netanyahu and the far-right will gain more power, benefiting the current Israeli government.

But it has benefited Hamas much more than Israel. That is why it can be considered a defeat. If the recent incident has resulted in a worsened security situation for Israel in the near future, it can't be seen as a success, as the main purpose of the bombings by the IDF were to provide security for Israel.

 

[jhungary]

The recent action by Hamas allows them to gain political legitimacy from Palestinians and more funding by its backers. The more radical wing of Hamas are able to exert more influence and they are emboldened to continue their current stance. This can be seen both as a win and loss to Israel as they can use Hamas to justify their existing policies and sink any peace negotiation with Fatah. Netanyahu and the far-right will gain more power, benefiting the current Israeli government.

But it has benefited Hamas much more than Israel. That is why it can be considered a defeat. If the recent incident has resulted in a worsened security situation for Israel in the near future, it can't be seen as a success, as the main purpose of the bombings by the IDF were to provide security for Israel.

You fail to see one point.

HAMAS will be in power no matter what, they have already gain maximum exposure and everything they do now is just attention seeking, the problem is, if HAMAS can one day challenge the IDF, then this is another story but i cannot see how this day become true if Iran and Egypt does not officially support HAMAS.

Arab support Palestinian, not HAMAS. And as long as this drag on, even Palestinian will quit supporting HAMAS as they will lead to Israel coming back to occupied their land. Just think about it, what would you perfer if you are a palestinian? A Gaza without IDF Checkpoint and/or settlement? Or a HAMAS regime battling Israel inside Gaza with IDF check point and Settlement?

Things will not go better to HAMAS as they have already won the 2006 election and gain the power in Gaza after the battle of Gaza, the only thing you can say HAMAS get better is as if they fought and won over the IDF. Which is not possible. If they keep on doing stuff like that, it will just increase the degree of seperation toward their own Palestinian fellow.

It will be the same in Israel, bombs keep droping UAV and fighter bomber keep flying, there are no change to them at all.

 

[azim49]

It was merely a little spanking. Hamas needs to be spanked time to time to stop rocket fire. After a while they start again. Here statistics of rocket fire into Israel:

As u can see, after the Cast Lead operation number of rocket attacks drastically decreased, but then started to climb again.

finally seen a Jewish mosquito /a pitcher full of human blood..........

 

[500]

Hamas succeeded in:
- bringing international attention to Palestine.
- winning widespread support from Palestinians and citizens of surrounding countries by 'standing' up to Israel.
- sidelining Abbas and Fatah ahead of the U.N application.
- forcing Israel to bomb Gaza to radicalize Palestinians and turning them over to Hamas.
- widen the rift between Israel and surrounding nations and sow the seeds of the next conflict between Israeli jews and Arabs.

Hamas was probably hoping for Israel to invade Gaza as well, as that would have helped their cause immeasurably due to the projected body count that would have been inflicted on Palestinians.

It would have been a punitive expedition by Israel, and they would have never been able to destroy Hamas competely. The mere act of surviving an Israel invasion would boost Hamas' power and the effect of the invasion would be utterly disastrous on the international opinion of Israel.

Hence, Israel would have lost no matter what action they take, but they would lose much more if the invasion went ahead.

You are right. Hamas tactics is to force Israel to bombing them, then whine, get money etc. And they are pretty much successful in it.

But as result of all these successes Gaza will remain a beggar entity where 80% of the population depend on international aid, while Israel is a blooming country.

 

[Icecreamcart]

You fail to see one point.

HAMAS will be in power no matter what, they have already gain maximum exposure and everything they do now is just attention seeking, the problem is, if HAMAS can one day challenge the IDF, then this is another story but i cannot see how this day become true if Iran and Egypt does not officially support HAMAS.

Arab support Palestinian, not HAMAS. And as long as this drag on, even Palestinian will quit supporting HAMAS as they will lead to Israel coming back to occupied their land. Just think about it, what would you perfer if you are a palestinian? A Gaza without IDF Checkpoint and/or settlement? Or a HAMAS regime battling Israel inside Gaza with IDF check point and Settlement?

Things will not go better to HAMAS as they have already won the 2006 election and gain the power in Gaza after the battle of Gaza, the only thing you can say HAMAS get better is as if they fought and won over the IDF. Which is not possible. If they keep on doing stuff like that, it will just increase the degree of seperation toward their own Palestinian fellow.

It will be the same in Israel, bombs keep droping UAV and fighter bomber keep flying, there are no change to them at all.

The biggest issue is how the more radical wing of Hamas is taking over the direction of the Palestinian movement from Fatah. From everything Hamas has achieved, sidelining Fatah and strengthening their own support from ordinary Palestinians and financial backers are probably their biggest win. Radicalizing the Palestinian movement even further causes bigger headaches in the region and for Israel.

It's not a win for Palestine, but a win for Hamas.

 

[rashid.sarwar]

Israel was defeated

They killed about 130 Palestines, they bombed the hell out of them and still you are saying they lost, again

I think this article is to calm the arab boys and leader, oh look we won, we won, ROFL.

What about the people who died, both sides, no one cares about them

stupid article

 

[500]

finally seen a Jewish mosquito /a pitcher full of human blood..........

- Israel always wanted to sign a cease fire with Gaza.
- In 2008 Hamas agreed to sign a cease fire, but only for 6 months.
- When 6 month ended Israel asked to renew cease fire, but they refused, drastically increasing rocket attacks.
- Therefore Israel launched Cast Lead operation and Hamas agreed to cease fire.
- Over 2 years was quite calm, but then rocket attacks started to climb again.
- Israel launched a new operation as result Hamas again agreed to cease fire.

I hope we last time play that game. We mind that Hamas think its victorious, if they keep the cease fire.

 

[humanfirst]

Hamas succeeded in:
- bringing international attention to Palestine.
- winning widespread support from Palestinians and citizens of surrounding countries by 'standing' up to Israel.
- sidelining Abbas and Fatah ahead of the U.N application.
- forcing Israel to bomb Gaza to radicalize Palestinians and turning them over to Hamas.
- widen the rift between Israel and surrounding nations and sow the seeds of the next conflict between Israeli jews and Arabs.

Hamas was probably hoping for Israel to invade Gaza as well, as that would have helped their cause immeasurably due to the projected body count that would have been inflicted on Palestinians.

It would have been a punitive expedition by Israel, and they would have never been able to destroy Hamas competely. The mere act of surviving an Israel invasion would boost Hamas' power and the effect of the invasion would be utterly disastrous on the international opinion of Israel.

Hence, Israel would have lost no matter what action they take, but they would lose much more if the invasion went ahead.

So according to you hamas,by sending rockets was baiting israel to bomb palestine so as to get international support,at the cost of dead hamas leaders and soldiers and civilians..Does this translate to hamas victory over Israel?As long as israel can retaliate any hamas attacks with 100x worse damage to hamas(including smoking their senior leadership),all these international attention and arab support to hamas wont account for anything substantial apart from dead hamas leaders and blown up palestinians..

 

[humanfirst]

The biggest issue is how the more radical wing of Hamas is taking over the direction of the Palestinian movement from Fatah. From everything Hamas has achieved, sidelining Fatah and strengthening their own support from ordinary Palestinians and financial backers are probably their biggest win. Radicalizing the Palestinian movement even further causes bigger headaches in the region and for Israel.

Radicalising the movement and making it more jehadiesque will only help israel..There will be less outcry when radicals are killed,not that israel cares much about such autcries..And as for hamas,continued aggression towards israel will be life threatening for its leaders-They will be hunted down and killed-International perception and arab support wont make them immune to JDAMs from Israeli F-16s..

 

[Wright]

Radicalising the movement and making it more jehadiesque will only help israel..There will be less outcry when radicals are killed,not that israel cares much about such autcries..And as for hamas,continued aggression towards israel will be life threatening for its leaders-They will be hunted down and killed-International perception and arab support wont make them immune to JDAMs from Israeli F-16s..

I concur, it will only harm the Palestinians in the long run. They will not be able to better themsleves being preoccupied with Jihad.

In fact I personally believe such conflicts improve Israels military and technological capability, as they are forced to invest in R&D.

 

[azim49]

Israel was defeated

They killed about 130 Palestines, they bombed the hell out of them and still you are saying they lost, again

I think this article is to calm the arab boys and leader, oh look we won, we won, ROFL.

What about the people who died, both sides, no one cares about them

STF did u the 1 who stopped this conflict ?? what was ur role ? nothing .........u r nothing to muslim ummah ......so abstain from doing critcs them .

 

[Icecreamcart]

So according to you hamas,by sending rockets was baiting israel to bomb palestine so as to get international support,at the cost of dead hamas leaders and soldiers and civilians..Does this translate to hamas victory over Israel?As long as israel can retaliate any hamas attacks with 100x worse damage to hamas(including smoking their senior leadership),all these international attention and arab support to hamas wont account for anything substantial apart from dead hamas leaders and blown up palestinians..

The aim for Hamas was to provoke a reaction from Israel, win popular support and win more financial support from Hamas backers. It doesn't matter if this is built on the bodies of dead Palestinians, the fact is that Hamas has achieved its goals in this short conflict.

I agree this is bad for the Palestinian movement in the long run but not for Hamas. Because any serious attempt to root out Hamas will require a ground operation and will result in massive civilian casualties, numbers that are unacceptable to public opinion.