Israel and Non Arab Muslim countries

[p(-)0ENiX]

What are you then? Darr Khwaja Mughal etc

I have deleted my family name, because I see no point in keeping it on the thread anymore.

 

[fd24]

Regarding Palestine, google what we are doing and already did for them.
Regarding Arab terrorism, I say it's time to stop your pathetic lies and hang your terrorism and misfortunes on us:

Blackeagle - steady on - there is no need to start offending other members by calling them liars. I wont stoop to your level and start a personal attack.
There are numerous proofs and validated sources but with your mindset sir it wouldnt matter what source i put on. Lets agree to disagree on the subject. I will agree that the Saudi have in the past behaved immorally and you can think they are incredible...

 

[Edevelop]

Armstrong another Butty Pakistan is full of Buttys and PDF will not allow us to write our name

You are also forgetting me!!

 

[King Solomon]

I have been thinking for sometime about the relations of Non Arab Muslim countries with Israel.

I see no logic provided Israel respects our holy sites in Israel why we should be so anti Israel.

I mean why the current crisis between Israel and Iran? The root seems to be the Iranian support of various Arab entities on Iran's part.

Why has Pakistan not recognised Israel when Egypt and Jordan have? And Saudis via Americans have good relations with Israel.

Why should Pakistanis or Iranians or Turks etc get ourselves all excited and make an enemy of Israel and as a result AIPAC and America when the Arabs and their own leaders themselves are divided and do not know whether they are coming or going killing Arabs left right and centre. I mean Saddam was responsible for probably killing more Muslims Arabs and non Arabs than anyone.

I mean I go from one extreme where I think Israel has no right to exist to a two state solution to the other extreme of getting frustrated with Arab leaders and thinking let them sort out their own mess and not to take sides at all. Usually I take the Israel has no right to exist POV with some of the more aggressive Israeli members and with some of the aggressive Arab members I suggest that we have nothing to do with them and side with Israel.

In fact I have noticed that there are a couple of Israelis on here who I really like and respect from reading their posts and on the other hand there are a few Saudi/Jordanian members who seem to think that they have a God given right that we (as Muslims) owe them and should support them no matter they are right or wrong and when we do not they insult us personally our people and our country in a very arrogant dismissive way.

This is a serious invitation to discuss these matters and see what other Non Arab Muslim nationals think. I would be particularly interested where others through frustration with Arab leaders feel the same as I do.

Aryan_B, you are my respected friend and I always respect you. Even though we, previously, did not agree in the Israel issue (my change of stance regarding Israel/Palestine conflict).

It is great to see you are realizing the truth.

I hope you read the article I PMed you regarding Arab mentality, why they react the way they do.

 

[Hyperion]

go for it, recognize Israel im a die hard nationalist.

We're all nationalists here. Perhaps, even more so than you?

 

[Armstrong]

You are a smart bloke and your knowledge is good - yet you attempt to be selective.Ok put the Syrian issue to one side and lets say "we are not sure". What about their behaviour regarding the Palestinian issue? What about their open support of terrorist groups in Pakistan? What about their assistance in the creation of frankenstein (Al Queda)? Do you think you the facts are still fudged? Why are you being selective in what you can and cant remember - i feel patronized when asking me innocently why i think the way i do when you are aware of Saudi behaviour in recent years. I am NOT a Saudi hater in any way what so ever - i am simply frustrated at their "laissez faire" attitude which has harmed so many unnecessarily...

Yes I've heard that line of thinking ! I blame the Saudis for exiling Osama instead of executing him...fair enough, they are guilty of being lax over there ! But to be honest as much as I've heard about the 'Saudi funding' none of the articles, none of the journalists or the so-called intellectuals ever provide evidence for their involvement ! Its just taken as a thing for 'granted' ! So naturally when I look at :

1) Saudis are predominately Wahabi !

2) OBL was influenced by Syed Qutb whose thoughts on Islam were so revolutionary that they couldn't bracket it within any existing framework and so they gave it a new name 'Qutbism'.

3) AQ followed the same ideology as OBL !

4) The Pakistani equivalent of the Wahabis are 'Ahl-e-Sunnat wal Jammat' and yet the Taliban, the Sipah Sahaba and other such militant groups are 'Deobandi' ! Ironically enough the Deobandi seminaries in Pakistan far outnumber any other whereas the Ahl-e-Sunnat wal Jammat ones come at a mere 3rd at around 9% (I read this in a survey on the internet but should you wish to I can search for it !) after the Shi'ite seminaries.

5) OBL himself abhorred the Saudi Royal Family and wanted to cleanse Arabia from their, as he saw it, decadence and corruption ! The Clergy in KSA and the Monarchy have a symbiotic relationship with one another where one derives legitimacy from the other; consequently I find it hard to believe that the Saudis would be funding an organization thats out to get them ! oO

The above mentioned contradictions were some of the few things that greatly perturbed me and so when I went about trying to find a connection implicating the Saudi Government for funding terrorism, I either came across 'it' being assumed as a 'fact' or I came across evidence like 'an unnamed source told us', 'a secret intelligence report', 'an intelligence official on the condition of anonymity told us...' - those are the kind of 'evidences' that I haven't really given much credence to because the last time they led us to the 'Iraq War', not to mention Libya and the massive inconsistencies of whats happening there-in !

So you tell me...what do I believe ? Could individuals have sent them money ? Sure...I can even point you towards a few Pakistanis I know for a fact supported the Taliban with donations ! But the Saudi Government ? Dunno....my findings are inconclusive and I can't really say with anything close to empirical certainty that they are !

 

[Armstrong]

- double post -

Sh*t heard the transformer malfunctioning outside ! You know that 'booomb' sound it makes when it fuses...! So no power for the next few hours and possibly most of tomorrow I think !

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Blackeagle - steady on - there is no need to start offending other members by calling them liars. I wont stoop to your level and start a personal attack.
There are numerous proofs and validated sources but with your mindset sir it wouldnt matter what source i put on. Lets agree to disagree on the subject. I will agree that the Saudi have in the past behaved immorally and you can think they are incredible...

As usual, runing away................

 

[Hyperion]

OH MY DEAR LORD... So much loyalty You water my eyes my friend .... The last A-Rab bastion in the east

Yes I've heard that line of thinking ! I blame the Saudis for exiling Osama instead of executing him...fair enough, they are guilty of being lax over there ! But to be honest as much as I've heard about the 'Saudi funding' none of the articles, none of the journalists or the so-called intellectuals ever provide evidence for their involvement ! Its just taken as a thing for 'granted' ! So naturally when I look at :

1) Saudis are predominately Wahabi !

2) OBL was influenced by Syed Qutb whose thoughts on Islam were so revolutionary that they couldn't bracket it within any existing framework and so they gave it a new name 'Qutbism'.

3) AQ followed the same ideology as OBL !

4) The Pakistani equivalent of the Wahabis are 'Ahl-e-Sunnat wal Jammat' and yet the Taliban, the Sipah Sahaba and other such militant groups are 'Deobandi' ! Ironically enough the Deobandi seminaries in Pakistan far outnumber any other whereas the Ahl-e-Sunnat wal Jammat ones come at a mere 3rd at around 9% (I read this in a survey on the internet but should you wish to I can search for it !) after the Shi'ite seminaries.

5) OBL himself abhorred the Saudi Royal Family and wanted to cleanse Arabia from their, as he saw it, decadence and corruption ! The Clergy in KSA and the Monarchy have a symbiotic relationship with one another where one derives legitimacy from the other; consequently I find it hard to believe that the Saudis would be funding an organization thats out to get them ! oO

The above mentioned contradictions were some of the few things that greatly perturbed me and so when I went about trying to find a connection implicating the Saudi Government for funding terrorism, I either came across 'it' being assumed as a 'fact' or I came across evidence like 'an unnamed source told us', 'a secret intelligence report', 'an intelligence official on the condition of anonymity told us...' - those are the kind of 'evidences' that I haven't really given much credence to because the last time they led us to the 'Iraq War', not to mention Libya and the massive inconsistencies of whats happening there-in !

So you tell me...what do I believe ? Could individuals have sent them money ? Sure...I can even point you towards a few Pakistanis I know for a fact supported the Taliban with donations ! But the Saudi Government ? Dunno....my findings are inconclusive and I can't really say with anything close to empirical certainty that they are !

 

[lem34]

interesting....
But where are all the kashmiri warriors gone now in I.O.K?

UK lol

 

[Edevelop]

UK lol

Mirpuris....

 

[Hyperion]

UK lol

BAHAHHAHAHAHA - I knew it... That's why we are loosing the cause

 

[Mosamania]

Blackeagle - steady on - there is no need to start offending other members by calling them liars. I wont stoop to your level and start a personal attack.
There are numerous proofs and validated sources but with your mindset sir it wouldnt matter what source i put on. Lets agree to disagree on the subject. I will agree that the Saudi have in the past behaved immorally and you can think they are incredible...

I am not on the "Saudi" side. I am on the right side. If I see my country doing something wrong I will be the first one to go fully against it before any of you here. However I also know there is am extensive propaganda campaign against Saudi Arabia by everyone. Hell something as small as a small city summer festival talent show received headlines around the world.

Even you lot who keep going against "Western media propaganda" are the first ones to bring up THiER propaganda against KSA here. And don't say you don't. We close to never post western media articles on Iran but you people are relentless in posting against KSA. I am not saying we are angels not at all however from my point of view we are currently on the right side of things.

 

[Hyperion]

Imagine.. I alone can change so many perceptions... Who knew??? Now everyone thank me MUHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA

 

[INDIC]

Let's suppose there is a void.. Now lets say this earth-moving shift takes place. You're intelligent enough, think how fast this void will be filled?

Things are never static. There is always something new waiting to replace the old

Who will replace economic aid from United States and Saudi Arabia.