Islamisation fears at top Pakistan university

[Dubious]

what consequences. if not 90% then lets say 80%. What will you do if these 80% of the people do not pray 5 times a day? what punishment you want to give them? also what if 80% of the girls refuse to wear face covering dress. So what punishment you give to those girls?

80% really? Man you really have your hopes high...2ndly if they do not pray that is up to them....Shariah is only implemented if there is a Khalifa otherwise it serves no purpose....because only an Islamic court can punish people who dont pray....besides there is no proper punishment for those when I said punishment I meant for crimes in everyday life not that revolve around Islam......
There is no punishment for people not following Islamic laws...that is not up to people to punish them...you teach them...they choose if they want to be Muslim or not...If they choose Islam then they follow the principles if they dont no one is going to barge into your homes to check if you prayed....not sure what you are talking about....

 

[timetravel]

80% really? Man you really have your hopes high...2ndly if they do not pray that is up to them....Shariah is only implemented if there is a Khalifa otherwise it serves no purpose....because only an Islamic court can punish people who dont pray....besides there is no proper punishment for those when I said punishment I meant for crimes in everyday life not that revolve around Islam......
There is no punishment for people not following Islamic laws...that is not up to people to punish them...you teach them...they choose if they want to be Muslim or not...If they choose Islam then they follow the principles if they dont no one is going to barge into your homes to check if you prayed....not sure what you are talking about....

I am talking about Muslims.

what punishment you would give to those who watch Indian serials, Who dance at the weddings or who do not pray 5 times a day and to those girls who do not wear face covering dress or those who intermingle with boys?

I am not talking about Non Muslims but about those who choose to be Muslims. So what is the punishment?

Obviously more then 80% of Pak people are like normal people who like to enjoy life and watch serials and dance and have fun. So they all deserve punishment.

 

[Dubious]

I am talking about Muslims.

what punishment you would give to those who watch Indian serials, Who dance at the weddings or who do not pray 5 times a day and to those girls who do not wear face covering dress or those who intermingle with boys?

*sigh* Are you trolling? No one punishes you based on religion...When I said punishment (as I said in my previous post) I meant for crimes....

I am not talking about Non Muslims but about those who choose to be Muslims. So what is the punishment?

If they choose to be Muslims they will follow the law...simple if not then dont bother...no one forces anyone...

Obviously more then 80% of Pak people are like normal people who like to enjoy life and watch serials and dance and have fun. So they all deserve punishment.

Now i dont think anymore I know you are trolling @WebMaster @Aeronaut @zakii @nuclearpak @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Oscar this is no longer asking questions based on curiosity or wanting to know but pure trolling when I already answered the same questions in a previous post!

 

[SQ8]

I am talking about Muslims.

what punishment you would give to those who watch Indian serials, Who dance at the weddings or who do not pray 5 times a day and to those girls who do not wear face covering dress or those who intermingle with boys?

I am not talking about Non Muslims but about those who choose to be Muslims. So what is the punishment?

Obviously more then 80% of Pak people are like normal people who like to enjoy life and watch serials and dance and have fun. So they all deserve punishment.

The whole concept of Shariah is to be with the times. Initial Islamic history is the most clear explanation of how it works.
When there was widespread merryment beyond the limits.. and rule of law did not exist as just. No punishments were enforced by any individuals or otherwise. leniency was given considering norms in society. Bit by bit, as the Islamic state took hold.. laws were enforced.. BUT never was anything that happened inside a person's household(unless it affected neighbours or society at large) interfered in. The rest of the additional condiments to Shariah as are widely promoted , extolled and demonized by supports and critics alike have no place in Islam but rather clergy and their attempts to remain relevant in the lives of their less aware(of their religion) Muslims.

 

[Pakistani E]

I wish you stay exiled and enjoy secularism and be proud of being a wog.

I'm sorry to burst your pretty bubble but after I'm done with education I'm coming straight back to become the bane of your existence. I will follow mullahs around with a big sign saying munafiq, people like you can also join my little train.

 

[timetravel]

*sigh* Are you trolling? No one punishes you based on religion...When I said punishment (as I said in my previous post) I meant for crimes....
If they choose to be Muslims they will follow the law...simple if not then dont bother...no one forces anyone...
Now i dont think anymore I know you are trolling @WebMaster @Aeronaut @zakii @nuclearpak @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Oscar this is no longer asking questions based on curiosity or wanting to know but pure trolling when I already answered the same questions in a previous post!

are we talking about civil crimes here really? I do not think so.

Please do not try to deviate from the topic. When did I or anyone on this whole thread talk of civil crimes like theft, rape, or murder/

I think the discussion is about religion and people not following following religious rules.

as per you, those who do not follow religious rules prescribed by the holy books deserve punishment (now do not come back and say you meant that for civil crimes or else you would look out of place)

So I am not trolling here, infact you seem to think people cannot judge what you are writing.

so going back to the main topic:

You say those who choose to be Muslims would follow the law. But I say 80% of those who choose to be Muslims are not following the law. Now what you plan to do to correct this? that is my only question and I ask you to address this question directly instead of evading it.

The whole concept of Shariah is to be with the times. Initial Islamic history is the most clear explanation of how it works.
When there was widespread merryment beyond the limits.. and rule of law did not exist as just. No punishments were enforced by any individuals or otherwise. leniency was given considering norms in society. Bit by bit, as the Islamic state took hold.. laws were enforced.. BUT never was anything that happened inside a person's household(unless it affected neighbours or society at large) interfered in. The rest of the additional condiments to Shariah as are widely promoted , extolled and demonized by supports and critics alike have no place in Islam but rather clergy and their attempts to remain relevant in the lives of their less aware(of their religion) Muslims.

I would be much rather happy if Shariah has the interpretation which you just told me. In that case I assume it is perfectly fine if some muslim,

Watches Indian serials
dances and enjoys at the weddings of his relatives
or a muslim girl does not wear face covering dress

@Talon what do you think now? see Shariah is not something which is a fixed rule. it does allow one to change and adapt to the times.

 

[Dubious]

are we talking about civil crimes here really? I do not think so.

Please do not try to deviate from the topic. When did I or anyone on this whole thread talk of civil crimes like theft, rape, or murder/

then there is no problem...Because when I said punishment I am not sure why you assumed it would be for things you mentioned...maybe it happens on your side of the border but not here...

I think the discussion is about religion and people not following following religious rules.

as per you, those who do not follow religious rules prescribed by the holy books deserve punishment (now do not come back and say you meant that for civil crimes or else you would look out of place)

This is what I said:

Middle way: let people choose....those who chose Islam give them no.2...that is what Shariah says...if you are Muslim you will be punished harder because you knew the rules as opposed to the Non followers who didnt know the rules..

In this case, I was saying that is what Shariah says...I am sorry you took it wrongly and tried to put in your words...

So I am not trolling here, infact you seem to think people cannot judge what you are writing.

Why judge? I write something and due to your judging it became something else...Why try to read between lines that is not there?

a
so going back to the main topic:

You say those who choose to be Muslims would follow the law. But I say 80% of those who choose to be Muslims are not following the law. Now what you plan to do to correct this? that is my only question and I ask you to address this question directly instead of evading it.

Why should I correct this? I said put no. 1 let people choose...then no.2 for those who chose Islam...Which part is difficult? The part that it does not meet your definition?

@Talon what do you think now? see Shariah is not something which is a fixed rule. it does allow one to change and adapt to the times.

Did I say it was a fixed law? Did I give a law from Shariah and say adhere to it no changing? All I said that is what Shariah said....man you people have a book of words to imagine with when you see a particular word like you saw punishment and you had all these words to go with it...you saw shariah you had another book of words to go with it

The whole concept of Shariah is to be with the times. Initial Islamic history is the most clear explanation of how it works.
When there was widespread merryment beyond the limits.. and rule of law did not exist as just. No punishments were enforced by any individuals or otherwise. leniency was given considering norms in society. Bit by bit, as the Islamic state took hold.. laws were enforced.. BUT never was anything that happened inside a person's household(unless it affected neighbours or society at large) interfered in. The rest of the additional condiments to Shariah as are widely promoted , extolled and demonized by supports and critics alike have no place in Islam but rather clergy and their attempts to remain relevant in the lives of their less aware(of their religion) Muslims.

1stly, Shariah is not a clear set of laws, they are laws "interpreted from the Quran" As time goes on...new things are discovered and the Arabic language is a marvelous language in the sense it gives a feel of a word more than assigning it to a subject....

Once upon a time the "Zarrah" was used for something very small such as a grain of sand....many translators used that to translate zarrah...now if you check the translators prefer to use the word atom as it is smaller than a grain of soil....

Hence...Shariah was written many years back...then again in Arabic...

There are many Hadith...for me all that which do not conflict with the Quran be it Hanafi , Shafii, Maliki or Hanbali it is correct....Hence, if it says prawns and crabs are halal then they are halal...although other schools put them as makhroh! Because the people at the coastal area got their main food supply from the water bodies....hence I agree with the fiqh that calls it halal...if people near the water bodies can eat why cant the rest?

 

[timetravel]

then there is no problem...Because when I said punishment I am not sure why you assumed it would be for things you mentioned...maybe it happens on your side of the border but not here...
This is what I said:

In this case, I was saying that is what Shariah says...I am sorry you took it wrongly and tried to put in your words...
Why judge? I write something and due to your judging it became something else...Why try to read between lines that is not there?
Why should I correct this? I said put no. 1 let people choose...then no.2 for those who chose Islam...Which part is difficult? The part that it does not meet your definition?

Did I say it was a fixed law? Did I give a law from Shariah and say adhere to it no changing? All I said that is what Shariah said....man you people have a book of words to imagine with when you see a particular word like you saw punishment and you had all these words to go with it...you saw shariah you had another book of words to go with it

Ok just few simple questions. this will not need us to go back into who said what

you said no 2 for those who choose Islam. So I am assuming I am right here. let me know if I am wrong.

Now my follow up questions are,

Since for those who choose Islam there are certain rules which they need to follow, I have three questions.

1) what are those rules broadly? can you elaborate. If you cannot list them or put them into few words then let me know and its fine if you think its not possible to answer this question.

2) this question is a subset of 1st and should be very very easy to answer. Is it allowed for those who choose to be Muslim to see Indian serials, to celebrate and dance at weddings, for girls to interact with boys and not wear face covering.

3) if some one chooses to be Muslim but does not follow the rules (which are required by virtue of being a Muslim) then what should be his punishment in your views? and who should give him that punishment?

4) lastly if you say Muslims are not allowed to dance at weddings. Then I would like to know that in your views what is the appropriate punishment to be given for this particular violation of dancing at weddings?

(we are not talking civil crimes here)

The above questions have no reference to any previous discussion we had on this thread. But they are new questions to understand your view on the topic.

 

[Dubious]

Ok just few simple questions. this will not need us to go back into who said what

you said no 2 for those who choose Islam. So I am assuming I am right here. let me know if I am wrong.

Now my follow up questions are,

Since for those who choose Islam there are certain rules which they need to follow, I have three questions.

1) what are those rules broadly? can you elaborate. If you cannot list them or put them into few words its fine.

The rules are simple, they follow Quran because they themselves chose to come in Islam...Shahadha being passport into Islam and you have the 3 pillars is the basic which is like a visa to enter Islam...with the 1st pillar (Quran being the set of rules for entering) and then the Hajj only if you can afford it...If you dont do these its between you and god...these 5 are between you and god...

Other set of rules are like halal food, dress code and all others are for decency ---and Muslim countries adopt them because they really apply to decency where a woman will not be treated as an item because of her body parts (be she fat, thin, fashionable) some countries adopted the abaya (main purpose was for everyone to look equal no fashion shows in schools no judgement based on whose daddy can buy more expensive clothes...but apparently that backfired) ..

Then there are a set of other rules which are equal to anyother country, drug trafficking, prostitution, gambling and so on

2) this question is a subset of 1st and should be very very easy to answer. Is it allowed for those who choose to be muslims to see Indian serials, to celebrate and dance at weddings, for girls to interact with boys and not wear face covering.

It is not a simple question....

Some sects actually put some of this stuff as haram.....so depends on which sect...In Islam if it does not influence you in a bad way its fine...but if you will be influenced like after seeing some actress wearing some revealing dress...then best stay away...like an over protective father some people go over board and declare these things haram....as for face covering...i cover as a choice no one in my direct and extended families cover...but some sects put it compulsory because the Prophet's wives cover while others claim that they covered because they were mothers of the ummah and were not to attract attention of others no matter what....so it depends on the sect...

3) if some one chooses to be Muslim but does not follow the rules (which are required by virtue of being a muslim) then what should be his punishment in your views? and who should give him that punishment?
(we are not talking civil crimes here)

I think I already answered this in this post...

The above questions have no reference to any previous discussion we had on this thread. But they are new questions to understand your view on the topic.

ok

 

[timetravel]

It is not a simple question....

Some sects actually put some of this stuff as haram.....so depends on which sect...In Islam if it does not influence you in a bad way its fine...but if you will be influenced like after seeing some actress wearing some revealing dress...then best stay away...like an over protective father some people go over board and declare these things haram....as for face covering...i cover as a choice no one in my direct and extended families cover...but some sects put it compulsory because the Prophet's wives cover while others claim that they covered because they were mothers of the ummah and were not to attract attention of others no matter what....so it depends on the sect...

That's ok. Different sects have different views and then you have the Taliban who want to see even 5 year old girls dressed fully from head to toe.

but do you think its ok to watch Indian serials, dance at the weddings, or for girls to not cover their face or to intract with boys in college of their work place. I mean what am asking is that a Muslim who does above things is a Muslim or not as per you? ( and I mean decent serials, respectable dance and fun at wedding, respectable attire for women like suites sarees regular jeans, and friendly decent interactions in college and work)

I want to know your views on this, I know there would be many sects who would classify some or all of the above as haram. But then I think those preachers are wrong and I do not agree with them.

 

[Dubious]

That's ok. Different sects have different views and then you have the Taliban who want to see even 5 year old girls dressed fully from head to toe.

Maybe they had a rape endemic...or high on lusts... Then again this can also be a myth because most of the Afghanis in Pakistan are not hardcore Muslims.....Mostly they are culturally driven....We had a couple of family friends (at different places and different times in life none prob knew the other) who said that they would cover their faces when they were on their own street for fear of bad mouthing from neighbours...so these people were more scared of their neighbours and hence imposed such stuff on their daughters....that was on our side of the border am guessing something similar for the Talibans...then again blowing up schools, innocent civilians is not Islamic so I am not sure what they actually follow...

but do you think its ok to watch Indian serials, dance at the weddings, or for girls to not cover their face or to intract with boys in college of their work place. I mean what am asking is that a Muslim who does above things is a Muslim or not as per you?

To be a Muslim or not is up to the person who chose to be...Nothing to do with what I think or not...Our prophet was not allowed to judge and I am far lower than him...In addition to that he couldnt even force his own beloved uncle to say the shahadah who am I?

I want to know your views on this, I know there would be many sects who would classify some or all of the above as haram. But then I think those preachers are wrong and I do not agree with them.

For me I watch Indian movies coz I am not influenced into doing anything remotely similar nor do I have a weak will that I will start praying to an idol
For me dancing at weddings is ok as long as it stays decent but if a girl is wearing the tightest thing and cant even bend or dance properly, I suggest she not even make an attempt its the bride's day she should get all the attention not a woman dancing in skimpy clothes
I think I mentioned about face covering
For me talking to guys at collage and workplace is a must and so I do it...I talk to them here on PDF, I talk at my work place and we had assignments to do...But I will never meet them up in separate rooms because it wont be safe for me...My safety is above all...I dont see every man as evil but my safety comes first better safe than sorry...What cant be said or done in public should not be done in a separate room...If we are studying then the library should be a good spot or the canteen or something...and I see nothing wrong with that...if you are studying you are bound to get involved in group projects and hence meetings, discussion and all is normal...

Does this answer your questions?

 

[Luftwaffe]

ITS ABOUT TIME WE BAN JAMAAT E ISLAMI, JAMIAT ULEMA ISLAM, JAMAIAT AHLE HADITH, JANNAT PAKISTAN PARTY, MUSLIM LEAGUE ZIA, SUNNI TEHREEK, ISLAMI JAMIAT TULEBA, NAWAZ LEAGUE, THESE ARE RELIGIOUS PARTIES USING RELIGION TO SELL THEIR THEIR DIRTY TEA.

BAN THEM ALL TO SAVE PAKISTAN.

peep peep you forgot qadianiant/ahmadiat another contributor to jahalat.