Is Pakistan the only odd one remaining in the region when it comes to system of governance?

[Menace2Society]

As always throughout history.

 

[Meengla]

"Give"? Who has the authority to "give" the country to the right wingers (or anyone else) except the people themselves? I have advocated many times that if the majority of the people want the right wingers to take control, then follow due process to give them what they want.

Correct. And most of the 'right wing' in Pakistan are nutjobs with the exception of Jamaat e Islami, not that I like them either. You don't want Maulana Fazlu, TLP Rizvi, or similar people to 'run' Pakistan.
As I see it, Pakistan is already in the hands of the 'right wing' except it is not an extremist kind. The extreme kind Pakistan had centrally controlling was Zia ul Haq and also MMA controlled the K-P province briefly in early 2000s.
It is a good system in place in Pakistan since 2002. Controlled democracy. Let it continue for some more decades: Orderly transfers of power is the biggest curse of 3rd world countries and had been for Pakistan too until only about 2 decades ago. There are reforms being made in Pakistan. Slowly but surely. That's the path forward!

 

[313ghazi]

Thats why I mentioned that those within Pakistan with "darh gaz lambi zuban" talking about democracy, never actually studied what democracy is within western nations. its not free of all. its always comprise of "selected" individuals presented before to be "elected" by the citizens. Highly educated individuals with thorough careers behind them. British parliament is full of Eton and Russel uni graduates. You will never see a chav and gypsy in cabinet let alone become member of parliament. Nobody ask this question "are these people children of lesser gods and not citizens of this country, so why there is no chav/gypse minster and prime minster?" Now compare that to Pakistan and what goes in here in the name of democracy!

Democracy is never free for all, its always selection before election.

TBH, I've felt that Parliament being filled with Etonians from Oxbridge with PPE degrees has actually reduced the effectiveness of Parliament. There is no representation from the working class or the middle class apart from the odd ethnic minority MP. The likes of Dennis Skinner were very important in representing the views of the working class. Unfortunately with the demise of grammar schools the best quality students get mixed up with everyone else in the local comprehsensive and don't get the dedicated environment they need to compete with the private schools.

Generally though your point is correct, you have to have something about you to get elected in the UK, whereas in Pakistan it all depends on how much money and political influence you have.

 

[VCheng]

Then why I dont see redneck, gypses , chavs in the power corridors of western democracy. Why no priest, clergymen given tickets and be elected in the parliament? aka "due process" is what I refer to as "selection before election".

Exhibit A:

 

[Taimoor Khan]

TBH, I've felt that Parliament being filled with Etonians from Oxbridge with PPE degrees has actually reduced the effectiveness of Parliament. There is no representation from the working class or the middle class apart from the odd ethnic minority MP. The likes of Dennis Skinner were very important in representing the views of the working class. Unfortunately with the demise of grammar schools the best quality students get mixed up with everyone else in the local comprehsensive and don't get the dedicated environment they need to compete with the private schools.

Generally though your point is correct, you have to have something about you to get elected in the UK, whereas in Pakistan it all depends on how much money and political influence you have.

Democracy is always about "selection before election". In UK, the bastion of western democracy, the best available from the lot are presented to be elected, in Pakistan, the crooks, criminals, looters, corrupt are selected to be elected, in the name of democracy.

But the theme remain the same "selection before election".

Exhibit A:

View attachment 777655

He aint redneck.

Show me something like this.

I am sure by now you got the point.

 

[VCheng]

Controlled democracy.

An oxymoron, if there ever was one.

He aint redneck.

He. Is. Most. Definitely.

I am sure by now you got the point.

As usual, you have no point, merely misguided personal opinions.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

He. Is. Most. Definitely.

Clueless

As usual, you have no point, merely misguided personal opinions.

Always remember, "selection before election".... enjoy.

 

[Meengla]

An oxymoron, if there ever was one.

Nah, there is no 'pure' democracy in 3rd world countries. We have to make the best of our circumstances. Pakistan is on right path unless Afghanistan blows up again.

 

[CriticalThought]

The need of the hour is not a new system, the need of the hour is a systemic purge. If the same filth is brought to a new system, it will bring down that new system as well. If the filth is removed from the current system, we may get a pleasant surprise that even the current system actually works.

 

[bananarepublic]

That bold part, rather dumb thing to say.

I may be wrong, but I haven't seen anyone taking note of changed realities around Pakistan neighbour.

You might be right
But first priority is securing peace on both western and eastern border.
Then comes thinking

 

[VCheng]

Nah, there is no 'pure' democracy in 3rd world countries. We have to make the best of our circumstances. Pakistan is on right path unless Afghanistan blows up again.

Actually, you do make a fair point that I can accept.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The system has its issues, but fundamentally, the problems are (1) generally bad leadership across the board and (2) a population that doesn't care about the bad leadership.

If you have factor #2 then, at some point, factor #1 will change in accordance with the will and interests of #2. In fact, some in the West argue exactly that with regards to Afghanistan as there were enough 'problems' with the general populace to fuel the Taliban's eventual takeover. Likewise, the ones who were supposed to oppose the Taliban bailed, so that's a sign that they didn't have any real grounding or support among the people to actually put up a fight.

The issue with Pakistan is that the public -- specifically the middle class -- isn't engaged or interested enough to instigate real change at the top. Instead of a "fight 'em" mentality, our people have a "join or leave" approach where you either dumb-down and benefit from the status-quo, or you leave the country for the West. Except for a handful of people, you'll find that most of our middle class prefers one (or both) of these two methods of moving up the ladder. In other words, no one yet equates "fixing the country" with "moving up."

Now as to why we're disinterested... Well, it could simply be because we see no hope or feasible way of instigating real change. It can simply be a sense of exhaustion after seeing people fail or promising leaders renege on their commitments. It could be a result of no one offering a concrete vision of an alternative (instead we get vague ideas about 'Swedish Model', 'Riyasat e Madina'a and so on). I can't 'blame' the public to be honest; it is what it is unfortunately.

This is where having a bad leadership really sucks. If you at least have a cadre of sincere and competent leaders who want to win, then the public could rally behind them and actually work for a better outcome. In Turkey, folks saw that Erdogan's government was modernizing the economy, so the public showed up when the opportunities for education, R&D, etc became available. While in China, though authoritatarian, the people felt there was order, consistency and direction, so they didn't (albeit after Tianammen Square) stand in the way.

Optimisically, I'd say it's an issue of numbers. Eventually, we'll hit a point where we do get the right leaders (I don't know how), and from that point, Pakistan moves up. Pessimistically, this whole issue might not be a luck of a draw-type of situation, but rather, we're missing a critical ingredient in our culture or psyche that isn't easily gained (or regained).

 

[Neurath]

Your rants aside, how do you feel being surrounded by right wing nations all around you when you are the only one left under the clutches of liberal lot. I, from outside, can see it clearly, not sure why Pakistanis within are oblivious to this. Liberal politics is dead, all around Pakistan. Wake up and smell the coffee.

When you talk about liberalism, tell me in the case of Pakistan, what is the 'liberal' element that you want to remove? Our neighbours oppress religious minorities, force one's way of life on the other, take a radical approach to everything, is that what you want in Pakistan as well? Or are you suggesting that we should stoop to as low a level as them, where we can't reason with/educate our population and impose force? I'm having a hard time grasping your point here.

 

[Rollno21]

Anti muslim bias in government, in official dictation, in school books now, in leadership acts including renaming cities

Diktats on girls marriages
Diktats on even food choices and mob lynchings
Ex-communcal riot leaders and murders on government postings
Laws to pardon human rights criminals

You are even more delusional and self aggrandizing - but that is who you are as a sanctimonious genocidal representative of nation of insecurity that cannot help to try and show themselves better.

Now get lost from a Pakistani discussion

Can you show laws in India which support your claims above or any school book which is against any minorities.
If you remove your religious glasses and compare India and Pakistan ,law by law you will realise the post you quoted was right .

You guys don't even give equal rights as per your official law ,heck your pm could not even retain a person from a minority community as adviser because of the pressure .
you can site some incidents which happen in India and you know they happen in Pakistan too,but there are laws and such incidents are punishable.

 

[VCheng]

The system has its issues, but fundamentally, the problems are (1) generally bad leadership across the board and (2) a population that doesn't care about the bad leadership.

The old adage that people get the government they deserve applies here, perhaps.