Is Modi affecting Foreign policy of India ?

[R!CK]

I use to read here as guest but this question compelled me to create an account on defence pk, I dont think there is much change in Foreign Policy.

The very basic principle of Foreign policy is to advance your own interests.

With Russia:
Apart from historic ties(past 70 year ties) if we see objectively without the cloud of perception, and away from trolls and pathetic Indian media you will see our relation is as strong as always. Our military equipment is around 70% of Russian origin and yet nobody ever called it wrong!

Now my question to you is how come aligning with Russia(almost depending completely on a single nation) was not bad and now balancing it is bad?

With USA:
We are being a bit more balanced now instead being only in Soviet camp. USA provide not just some military hardware but the real value is diplomatic and economic clout.
Let me explain it a bit:
1) Economic Benefits: With US-China relations at all time low if India misses the bus the industries will move to Vietnam, Taiwan, Mexico etc, its true Chinese are rich but USA is still the richest nation on the planet and got the largest group of investors which follow the govt. advice very closely.
2) Diplomatic Benefits: There is not a shred of doubt about US diplomatic power and its not just limited to getting some resolution approved into UN, we can do it even without US help but its everywhere. Every single institution in the World, be it World Bank or WTO, wherever you want you can use US help and its a deciding factor. I dont know if you have any idea of Bali Package but if you ever get time go read it. US gave India the only opposer of new farmer subsidy rules everything we want and single-handedly. You name a major institution not important for future Indian growth story and US does not own it completely, literally.

Beside that there are other benefits too which are discussed to death here so I am not repeating them.

One more reason we dont see much momentum in India-Russia ties is cuz we are already at the peak of it. There is very less room for improvement, we are much stronger economically than Russia, we are very good at space and got good options for almost every other thing. However in case of US we are just starting. Consider going to 100 from 90, you will look going slow, its Russia, now consider going to 90 from 10, you will automatically go fast and it will be more visible.


Also I dont think defence pk is very right place to objectively assess Modi, the amount of trolling done here is pathetic and its amazing no mods do anything.

It will be highly hypocritical if we want our PM to act like an arrogant PM of super power in behaviour and still want others help in reducing 33% of world's poor population that we hosts.

If you want see an epic example of arrogance see Erdogan, how arrogantly he stood against Russia and later apologised multiple times in letter and in person, if you saw his grandstanding in which he was pulling up Ambassador from Bangladesh to everywhere you will see him licking what he spit. We need sensible people who can help India to achieve something not some Buffon who destroy relations between two countries for petty things.

P.S. Relation with US is not as scary as many trolls here post, if US give you money to radicalize your own population, arm and train them and you accept whole heartedly, carry it even after US withdrawl and than blame US than you are definitely some ret@rd who probably have no idea of your own country. There is a difference between the relationship between Business partners and Master and slaves. Whatever you listen from slaves will be highly baised, they always abuse old master and praise the new master in fear of not getting another beating.

Every agreement be it LEOMA or FGFA or RAFALE will be done only when India's concerns are addressed so there is no absolutely no chance of someone using you. Remind you we are not kids that US can use us, neither were our neighbours but we always need someone to blame for own faults.

Just my 2 cents.

Right use of words and welcome!

 

[Musafir117]

I vote Yes please continue as it Modi within years Kashmir problem get more international attention India get more isolated everything bring positive to region. Lagge raho Modi Sarkar

 

[nair]

We are short of sensible posters here - would love to hear more from you

@hellfire @Joe Shearer @anant_s @PARIKRAMA @Spectre @MilSpec

Just noticed this new guy

I use to read here as guest but this question compelled me to create an account on defence pk, I dont think there is much change in Foreign Policy.

The very basic principle of Foreign policy is to advance your own interests.

With Russia:
Apart from historic ties(past 70 year ties) if we see objectively without the cloud of perception, and away from trolls and pathetic Indian media you will see our relation is as strong as always. Our military equipment is around 70% of Russian origin and yet nobody ever called it wrong!

Now my question to you is how come aligning with Russia(almost depending completely on a single nation) was not bad and now balancing it is bad?

With USA:
We are being a bit more balanced now instead being only in Soviet camp. USA provide not just some military hardware but the real value is diplomatic and economic clout.
Let me explain it a bit:
1) Economic Benefits: With US-China relations at all time low if India misses the bus the industries will move to Vietnam, Taiwan, Mexico etc, its true Chinese are rich but USA is still the richest nation on the planet and got the largest group of investors which follow the govt. advice very closely.
2) Diplomatic Benefits: There is not a shred of doubt about US diplomatic power and its not just limited to getting some resolution approved into UN, we can do it even without US help but its everywhere. Every single institution in the World, be it World Bank or WTO, wherever you want you can use US help and its a deciding factor. I dont know if you have any idea of Bali Package but if you ever get time go read it. US gave India the only opposer of new farmer subsidy rules everything we want and single-handedly. You name a major institution not important for future Indian growth story and US does not own it completely, literally.

Beside that there are other benefits too which are discussed to death here so I am not repeating them.

One more reason we dont see much momentum in India-Russia ties is cuz we are already at the peak of it. There is very less room for improvement, we are much stronger economically than Russia, we are very good at space and got good options for almost every other thing. However in case of US we are just starting. Consider going to 100 from 90, you will look going slow, its Russia, now consider going to 90 from 10, you will automatically go fast and it will be more visible.


Also I dont think defence pk is very right place to objectively assess Modi, the amount of trolling done here is pathetic and its amazing no mods do anything.

It will be highly hypocritical if we want our PM to act like an arrogant PM of super power in behaviour and still want others help in reducing 33% of world's poor population that we hosts.

If you want see an epic example of arrogance see Erdogan, how arrogantly he stood against Russia and later apologised multiple times in letter and in person, if you saw his grandstanding in which he was pulling up Ambassador from Bangladesh to everywhere you will see him licking what he spit. We need sensible people who can help India to achieve something not some Buffon who destroy relations between two countries for petty things.

P.S. Relation with US is not as scary as many trolls here post, if US give you money to radicalize your own population, arm and train them and you accept whole heartedly, carry it even after US withdrawl and than blame US than you are definitely some ret@rd who probably have no idea of your own country. There is a difference between the relationship between Business partners and Master and slaves. Whatever you listen from slaves will be highly baised, they always abuse old master and praise the new master in fear of not getting another beating.

Every agreement be it LEOMA or FGFA or RAFALE will be done only when India's concerns are addressed so there is no absolutely no chance of someone using you. Remind you we are not kids that US can use us, neither were our neighbours but we always need someone to blame for own faults.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[GURU DUTT]

When heads of nation meets its always a tricky situation, there are thousands of situation when they get embarrassed. Just a single error in step and you look following someone, one step faster and you look running away from someone, you miss a handshake with someone its insult of others bla bla bla. Youtube is full of such videos.

Visuals dont mean a $hit, hundreds of Modi will come and go but what should remain is India on right track, its substance that matters. I had seen Pak media made a hue and cry when Modi took just 3 steps to greet Nawaz Sharief and the same media dont utter a single word when Xi didnt even took a single step and Nawaz went all the way alone.

Talk about substance not visuals, visuals may be/may not be what you think it is.

you nailed it sirji

we cant remain curtained in the russian block alone and time and again russia has showed when it comes to fleecing us or selling harware to owr enemies it always reacts in its own interests so why should india not do that russia might have a loins share in owr defnce equipment but that does not means we should forget how the socio economik system works in todays world and no other nation can help us get our goals in a better and time bound frame than USA and its allies like UK , Israel , France, Australia , S Korea, Germany and japan

so i say Modi is doing just fine with regards to Foreign policy and that too with full honesty and loyalty towards intersts of his mother land and its citizens it hardly matter what paid media presstituites of China and Pakistan think of it as they are not owr well wishers

When heads of nation meets its always a tricky situation, there are thousands of situation when they get embarrassed. Just a single error in step and you look following someone, one step faster and you look running away from someone, you miss a handshake with someone its insult of others bla bla bla. Youtube is full of such videos.

Visuals dont mean a $hit, hundreds of Modi will come and go but what should remain is India on right track, its substance that matters. I had seen Pak media made a hue and cry when Modi took just 3 steps to greet Nawaz Sharief and the same media dont utter a single word when Xi didnt even took a single step and Nawaz went all the way alone.

Talk about substance not visuals, visuals may be/may not be what you think it is.

those are fools who try to analise there nations foriegn policy based on visuals and media coverage and im happy after so long we got a PM that thinks and reacts the way he likes and dont bother about media but what his nation is getting out of it in the short and long term .... sure it means working relentlessly and overtime to keep the momentum going but does he have any other choice ?

 

[Trichy]

We have hardly seen such shift in foreign policy in India, in the recently held G20 summit, many observed the way Modiji was running after Obama. All the state sponsored & pro-BJP/NDA media called it Modi-Obama friendship, but some unbiased media are very skeptical about the way NDA led by Modi is forming this new foreign policy.

I wanted to open this discussion in "seniors cafe", but I m still young here . Lets make it healthy thread, and no blind bhakt or lefty dude required here.

@waz @WAJsal @Oscar @Slav Defence Plz look after the thread, thank you in advance.

If you look out the G20 meet video Obama wait and speak to Indian PM, not what you mention. before you speak something analyse it first.

 

[CorporateAffairs]

Obama is out of US administration (just 3 more months).
Ignore what presstitutes are saying and Anti national congress bootlickers are to say in Twitter.
NaMo has a very robust foreign policy, he's incharge on what hes doing and knows where he wants India to be.

 

[Grevion]

Modi is not only affecting the foreign policy, he is practically shaping India's relationship with the rest of the world which will help us throughout the next quarter of this century.
He's targeting a robust economic growth for the next 10-15 years and that's were we need the support of all the major G-20 nations.

NaMo .... hahahahaha. ..... LMAO!
What's next..... a bollywood production titles, "Finding NaMo"?

Oh, we know where he's taking India. He has already placed India on the lap of US and he is himself acting as US' lapdog, which is evident to the whole world.

@waz @WAJsal @Oscar if you guys can please help this gentlemen(or women ) here.

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

We have hardly seen such shift in foreign policy in India, in the recently held G20 summit, many observed the way Modiji was running after Obama. All the state sponsored & pro-BJP/NDA media called it Modi-Obama friendship, but some unbiased media are very skeptical about the way NDA led by Modi is forming this new foreign policy.

I wanted to open this discussion in "seniors cafe", but I m still young here . Lets make it healthy thread, and no blind bhakt or lefty dude required here.

@waz @WAJsal @Oscar @Slav Defence Plz look after the thread, thank you in advance.

@PARIKRAMA
@Abingdonboy @anant_s @Taygibay @Picdelamirand-oil @Vergennes @randomradio @Ankit Kumar 002 @MilSpec @Koovie @Echo_419 @Dash @hellfire @ito @SR-91 @AMCA @DesiGuy1403 @ranjeet @hellfire @fsayed @SpArK @AUSTERLITZ @nair @proud_indian @Roybot @jbgt90 @Sergi @Water Car Engineer @dadeechi @kurup @Rain Man @kaykay @Joe Shearer @Tshering22 @Dandpatta @danger007 @Didact @Soumitra @SrNair @TejasMk3@jbgt90 @ranjeet @4GTejasBVR @The_Showstopper @guest11 @egodoc222 @Nilgiri @SarthakGanguly @Omega007 @GURU DUTT @HariPrasad @JanjaWeed @litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular @Spectre@litefire @AMCA @Perpendicular@Ryuzaki @CorporateAffairs @GR!FF!N @migflug @Levina@SvenSvensonov @-xXx- @Perpendicular @proud_indian @Mustang06 @Param @Local_Legend @Ali Zadi @hellfire @egodoc222 @CorporateAffairs @Major Shaitan Singh @jha @SmilingBuddha @#hydra# @danish_vij @[Bregs] @Skillrex @Hephaestus @SR-91 @Techy @litefire @R!CK @zebra7 @dev_moh @DesiGuy1403 @itachii @nik141993 @Marxist @Glorino @noksss @jbgt90 @Skull and Bones @Crixus @others

Foreign policy is a continuity... it is not dependent on a person...Modi as a positive impact..and acts as a catalyst.... don't read too much into it.

 

[CorporateAffairs]

NaMo .... hahahahaha. ..... LMAO!
What's next..... a bollywood production titles, "Finding NaMo"?

Oh, we know where he's taking India. He has already placed India on the lap of US and he is himself acting as US' lapdog, which is evident to the whole world.

Guys are fixed in such childish things.
Grow up buddies.

 

[Spectre]

US wants India to be a containment vessel - that's it. If India becomes a global power in it's own right - US leverage over India would end, to that extent expect them to perform continuous checks on Indian ambitions.

Recent examples

1. WTO cases against India preventing India to achieve energy parity
2. Supporting India's UNSC ambitions vocally and at the same time opposing it behind the scenes with Russia and China.
3. Lackluster NSG campaign for India
4. Continued aid and military support to Pakistan.
5. Denial of critical tech to India in aerospace sector

There is a strong case to be made that US is using India as a bargaining chip, looking to extract concessions from China on trade and security. Once a deal with China is made, all taps to India will stop faster than Ussain Bolt's 100m sprint.

So any US claims of partnership should be taken with heavy dose of salt.

India should instead look towards forming a strong bulwark against Chinese tide with the means independent of US. How to do this?

1. Make the neighborhood impenetrable to China

Instead of squandering resources in countries like Vietnam, first build a firewall covering Srilanka, BD, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives so that these countries are closed to Chinese Military and security agencies. There should be no more submarine visits to SL, imagine Russian Sub docking up in Canada! US almost started WW3 and Armageddon when Russia tied to position it's military installations in Cuba - our response should be on a similar level.

2. Safeguard energy ties with Saudi and Iran.

This is not that big of a problem as these countries themselves dont want to be dependent on one customer. They would welcome improved ties with India as long as there are no miss-steps like India involving themselves in their affairs

3. Place Russia on equal priority to that of US

Russia is a critical hedge for India against US. Look at how smartly Erdogan used Russia to stump US. In addition they serve as an important check on China. Optics are important here - Russians are often more given to perceptions than US which is more focused on cold logical gains. I expect Modi to promote Russian ties more in international forums and visits. Russia is also naturally suspicious of China and while China has them at an disadvantage now due to low commodity prices that will not always be the case. In dire times we can count on Russia even more than US to step Chinese aggression either through back channel diplomacy or aggressive force projections on their borders

4. Transactional ties with Europe

Europeans are best viewed as mercenaries, cash based transactional relationships will always be open. Giving so much space to Russia and US leaves very little strategic capital we can spend on Europe. France in particular showed us recently how quick they are ready to drop India as a hot potato when given a better deal by Australians. Despite India being the major victim of recent leaks, India was not informed and all efforts were made to damage control in Australia. Our poor DM came to know about it in the middle of night through ironically a traitor Ravi Shankaran. Then French put the blame on India for leaks and only when India protested and Australian newspaper themselves denied this later retracted. It leaves a clear indication that there is no strategic component to our ties with France or anyone else in Europe. @GURU DUTT @Levina

@nair @PARIKRAMA @hellfire

 

[GURU DUTT]

US wants India to be a containment vessel - that's it. If India becomes a global power in it's own right - US leverage over India would end, to that extent expect them to perform continuous checks on Indian ambitions.

Recent examples

1. WTO cases against India preventing India to achieve energy parity
2. Supporting India's UNSC ambitions vocally and at the same time opposing it behind the scenes with Russia and China.
3. Lackluster NSG campaign for India
4. Continued aid and military support to Pakistan.
5. Denial of critical tech to India in aerospace sector

There is a strong case to be made that US is using India as a bargaining chip, looking to extract concessions from China on trade and security. Once a deal with China is made, all taps to India will stop faster than Ussain Bolt's 100m sprint.

So any US claims of partnership should be taken with heavy dose of salt.

India should instead look towards forming a strong bulwark against Chinese tide with the means independent of US. How to do this?

1. Make the neighborhood impenetrable to China

Instead of squandering resources in countries like Vietnam, first build a firewall covering Srilanka, BD, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives so that these countries are closed to Chinese Military and security agencies. There should be no more submarine visits to SL, imagine Russian Sub docking up in Canada! US almost started WW3 and Armageddon when Russia tied to position it's military installations in Cuba - our response should be on a similar level.

2. Safeguard energy ties with Saudi and Iran.

This is not that big of a problem as these countries themselves dont want to be dependent on one customer. They would welcome improved ties with India as long as there are no miss-steps like India involving themselves in their affairs

3. Place Russia on equal priority to that of US

Russia is a critical hedge for India against US. Look at how smartly Erdogan used Russia to stump US. In addition they serve as an important check on China. Optics are important here - Russians are often more given to perceptions than US which is more focused on cold logical gains. I expect Modi to promote Russian ties more in international forums and visits. Russia is also naturally suspicious of China and while China has them at an disadvantage now due to low commodity prices that will not always be the case. In dire times we can count on Russia even more than US to step Chinese aggression either through back channel diplomacy or aggressive force projections on their borders

4. Transactional ties with Europe

Europeans are best viewed as mercenaries, cash based transactional relationships will always be open. Giving so much space to Russia and US leaves very little strategic capital we can spend on Europe. France in particular showed us recently how quick they are ready to drop India as a hot potato when given a better deal by Australians. Despite India being the major victim of recent leaks, India was not informed and all efforts were made to damage control in Australia. Our poor DM came to know about it in the middle of night through ironically a traitor Ravi Shankaran. Then French put the blame on India for leaks and only when India protested and Australian newspaper themselves denied this later retracted. It leaves a clear indication that there is no strategic component to our ties with France or anyone else in Europe. @GURU DUTT @Levina

@nair @PARIKRAMA @hellfire

sirji in short there is no such thing as justice or fare paly or freindship in the real world only thing that matters is your interests and how you get it and the only way we can get what we want (strong economy and power so nobody can bully us )is when we side with the sole superpower as we had seen in last 70 years what it meant to be non alighned and almost all your enemies and so called friends fleecing you but pakistan getting away every time without paying for its mistakescrimes against india and china bullying us

 

[Hellfire]

@Spectre That, indeed, is one view to look at things. However, one really needs to understand the Chinese philosophy in dealing with nations. They are followers of Confucianism and follow dictums of Sun Tzu appropriately. Neither will they seek confrontation nor will they back out. The treaties they entered into long back, hold new meaning if circumstances change (as they are ought to).

If one is to follow their philosophy, you can have the Mongolians laying claim to whole of China and Asia right till Asia Minor and beyond.

India, too, is ensuring it's own interests, by hedging itself through closer relationship with US as eloquently by @BlackOpsIndia . We need to have leverage to settle our boundary issues with them. Until, and unless, we do that, we are at risk of a war.

Similarly, the noise about CPEC-GB-Baluchistan has to be seen in perspective of final settlements of the frontiers. Let's see how it works out.

 

[Pakistan First]

US wants India to be a containment vessel - that's it. If India becomes a global power in it's own right - US leverage over India would end, to that extent expect them to perform continuous checks on Indian ambitions.

Recent examples

1. WTO cases against India preventing India to achieve energy parity
2. Supporting India's UNSC ambitions vocally and at the same time opposing it behind the scenes with Russia and China.
3. Lackluster NSG campaign for India
4. Continued aid and military support to Pakistan.
5. Denial of critical tech to India in aerospace sector

There is a strong case to be made that US is using India as a bargaining chip, looking to extract concessions from China on trade and security. Once a deal with China is made, all taps to India will stop faster than Ussain Bolt's 100m sprint.

So any US claims of partnership should be taken with heavy dose of salt.

India should instead look towards forming a strong bulwark against Chinese tide with the means independent of US. How to do this?

1. Make the neighborhood impenetrable to China

Instead of squandering resources in countries like Vietnam, first build a firewall covering Srilanka, BD, Nepal, Bhutan, Maldives so that these countries are closed to Chinese Military and security agencies. There should be no more submarine visits to SL, imagine Russian Sub docking up in Canada! US almost started WW3 and Armageddon when Russia tied to position it's military installations in Cuba - our response should be on a similar level.

2. Safeguard energy ties with Saudi and Iran.

This is not that big of a problem as these countries themselves dont want to be dependent on one customer. They would welcome improved ties with India as long as there are no miss-steps like India involving themselves in their affairs

3. Place Russia on equal priority to that of US

Russia is a critical hedge for India against US. Look at how smartly Erdogan used Russia to stump US. In addition they serve as an important check on China. Optics are important here - Russians are often more given to perceptions than US which is more focused on cold logical gains. I expect Modi to promote Russian ties more in international forums and visits. Russia is also naturally suspicious of China and while China has them at an disadvantage now due to low commodity prices that will not always be the case. In dire times we can count on Russia even more than US to step Chinese aggression either through back channel diplomacy or aggressive force projections on their borders

4. Transactional ties with Europe

Europeans are best viewed as mercenaries, cash based transactional relationships will always be open. Giving so much space to Russia and US leaves very little strategic capital we can spend on Europe. France in particular showed us recently how quick they are ready to drop India as a hot potato when given a better deal by Australians. Despite India being the major victim of recent leaks, India was not informed and all efforts were made to damage control in Australia. Our poor DM came to know about it in the middle of night through ironically a traitor Ravi Shankaran. Then French put the blame on India for leaks and only when India protested and Australian newspaper themselves denied this later retracted. It leaves a clear indication that there is no strategic component to our ties with France or anyone else in Europe. @GURU DUTT @Levina

@nair @PARIKRAMA @hellfire

Among the very few and rare sane voices one sees among Indian members on this forum. However, what you've written / suggested above and to which I agree to a large extent, is not what the Modi (NaMo) administration is doing. On the contrary, it's taking India on a collision course with China and Russia.

 

[Grevion]

Why can't you be man enough to come up with a logical response? Hasn't India placed itself in a position where it is being referred to as US' Stooge ? Isn't it true that India is playing to US' tune to counter Chinese and Russian influence in the region? If this is indeed true, then your "NaMo" has put India in a very dangerous spot.

Ohh i am man enough sir/maam.
Actually the arguments you are providing here are not sane enough for a debate.
For eg - India playing to US tune to counter Russian influence here?? More then half of our military equipments are of Russian origin what countering are you talking about.

 

[Spectre]

@Spectre That, indeed, is one view to look at things. However, one really needs to understand the Chinese philosophy in dealing with nations. They are followers of Confucianism and follow dictums of Sun Tzu appropriately. Neither will they seek confrontation nor will they back out. The treaties they entered into long back, hold new meaning if circumstances change (as they are ought to).

If one is to follow their philosophy, you can have the Mongolians laying claim to whole of China and Asia right till Asia Minor and beyond.

India, too, is ensuring it's own interests, by hedging itself through closer relationship with US as eloquently by @BlackOpsIndia . We need to have leverage to settle our boundary issues with them. Until, and unless, we do that, we are at risk of a war.

Similarly, the noise about CPEC-GB-Baluchistan has to be seen in perspective of final settlements of the frontiers. Let's see how it works out.

Chinese actions are quite predictable if you look through the right prism.

Despite what you have said - they are and will seek conflicts with increasing frequency. The reason here is not that they want to fight. They would prefer not to but conflicts be they diplomatic or military allows them to expand geographically, economically or diplomatically. Consider China as kettle on full boil, it has to release the steam or it will explode. They are rather calculative about it - they know how to push and how far to push without consequences and so far it has been working splendidly in their favor.

The problem here is they will not stop - Slowly and steadily, they will keep changing the norms - it was inconceivable just a decade back the present levels of Chinese geographic aggression now even new constructions ratifying their claim can at maximum invoke a weak rebuke. This is just the experimentation phase - testing the waters - soon you will see a whole new dimension of projection and posturing.

@hellfire Great powers are nothing but kinetic momentum, they cant plateau, they cant stop - to do that is their demise. Look at history and find me a century spanning pacifist great power. You would be sorely tested.