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Is it too difficult?

Hello, friends. It’s been long I have been away from this forum. Since then a lot has been happened in our national and international politics. Unfortunately Kashmir remains on the broil, painfully more than before. The purpose of this thread is to find out a solution of the never ending crisis of Kashmiri militancy which for the last two three years seem to have exploded with a new vigour. No matter how long we, Indians continue to evade this question, this so called once Heaven on Earth remains as a crown of thorns on our head. Although some hawks and ultranationalists attribute this rising unrest to growing Islamic fundamentalism in the valley, time has come for a serious self-introspection and acting upon it.

Why I decided to talk about this is few hours back I watched an Interview with the fathers of two militants, Burhan Wani and Saddam Padder. With absolute calmness and serenity, what the two old men revealed was in fact chilling. When asked about the difference between militancy of the 90’s and militancy of 2016, Mujaffar Wani replied,”Log encounter ki jagah se door bhagte the (in the 90’s), aaj Encounter ki jagah ki tarah bhagte hain”. According to him people no longer are scared by the police. The fear of death from their heart is completely gone. I will come to these two men again later.

As I have already said, hawks will quickly cry growing radicalism for the upsurge in militancy. But for a moment they need to ponder on the fact why increasing numbers of highly educated youths are joining militancy. Is not this enough to ring the bell that something is really going wrong?

By blocking all peaceful means of expressing dissent, what remains is self-defence against the armed forces…the way forward is change in the status quo, where power won’t be exercised for the sake of power

The above was posted on his FB post on 18th April’2018 by Mohammad Rafi Bhat, just month before his death. If some of you are still wondering who he was and why does his fb post matter, Rafi was Assistant Professor of Sociology in the University of Kashmir. All his students describe him as a caring, mild gentleman, intellectual with high scholarship. He always encouraged his students to read and write about Kashmir which according to him was the greatest form of protest. Then why did he decide to pick up guns. The reason lies in his fb post. All peaceful means of protest was lost. The continued killing both of militants by encounter and as well as civilians deeply disturbed him. How Kashmiris are taking the burn of thirty years of militancy, curfews, police picketing, random searches in their houses, how deep these has gone into their psyche: why are we not bringing these questions in national debates in this largest democracy is beyond my comprehension.

As per father of Wani and Padder, excess measures by security forces have reached its peaks and it is not long before even old men start taking up arms against Indian forces. Arrogant, humiliating behaviour which may not raise much hue and cry in rest of India, perhaps is a self shooting idea in Kashmir: our policy makers need to understand this very quickly before it gets out of hand. Faizan, a sixteen year old boy was shot in head, chest, and renal spleen in Pulwama. His doctor father asks a quite simple question: If Indians really think Kashmiris as their own then when they are protesting why police are not shooting according to rules and firing below the knee? In this same video, Faizan’s uncle Muhammad Shareef Poswal also speaks about his nephew. More than what he speaks it was astonishing to see the ambience he kept around him; enlarged pictures of his deceased nephew, both in living and dead. Is it too difficult for us to guess what kind of consequences we are generating by such reckless killings of teenagers?

Before it is too late, let us wake ourselves up. Let us not serve the psychological advantage in a platter to Pakistan it was badly looking for after 26/11. Let us accept that our political stand on Kashmir has been very firm but the way we intend to do it is far from being correct and effective. We cannot afford to act as Israel do with Palestine. Is it too difficult for security forces not to force a local youth to bring cigarettes for them? Is it too difficult for security forces to behave with a smile? Can’t we get rid of this Pellet gun nonsense and think about something else which could be more effective and less harmful? Permanent solution of Kashmir may be distance away, but we, Indians can do these at free of cost. Otherwise what is the use of just having a land when its people are alien to us and we are alien to them?

Please share your views: where exactly we are going wrong and what could be the measures to bring back life into the lives of Kashmiris.

@Joe Shearer @Nilgiri @nair @WAJsal @waz @hellfire Cant remember ur new user ID..

Bhartis are idiots. If you know anything about training dogs, you abuse the ones you want to be vicious, stern with the ones you want obedient, and pamper the ones you want to be docile. You people are literally vicious to the Kashmiris, so why in the **** do you think they would ever want to be considered a part of you? They have already made their decision.
 
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The only convenience 'people like me' take is not to dwell on blanket black and white extremes which clearly is not your choice. I can argue with you with strong evidence that the exodus of Pandits were for anything but extreme radicalism in the valley. But I know, at the end of the day you will come back to the same point. So, I will rest my case here.

That is fine. I know the ability of guys like you to dig out some favorable argument in favor of those who killed hindus and prove that they were not radical. I also know that you can argue how the people who speak against the nation and army and kept silent against the genocide of Hindus are actually secular and they have genuine concern for human rights. I see this happening every day everywhere. So I too rest my case by recognizing your capability of standing in favor of radicals anti nationals.
 
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Bhartis are idiots. If you know anything about training dogs, you abuse the ones you want to be vicious, stern with the ones you want obedient, and pamper the ones you want to be docile. You people are literally vicious to the Kashmiris, so why in the **** do you think they would ever want to be considered a part of you? They have already made their decision.
Baba, thoda parh toh lo kya likha hai..hamesha dhana dhan goli chalate ho.
 
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That is fine. I know the ability of guys like you to dig out some favorable argument in favor of those who killed hindus and prove that they were not radical. I also know that you can argue how the people who speak against the nation and army and kept silent against the genocide of Hindus are actually secular and they have genuine concern for human rights. I see this happening every day everywhere. So I too rest my case by recognizing your capability of standing in favor of radicals anti nationals.
Ah!! Yes. I was waiting for this one. In favor of radicals anti-nationals? What next? Pakistan mein chala jaun?

I read what you wrote. I simply wrote the truth afterwards.
Toh, itna gussa kiyun bhai?
 
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Percentile wise i think it is no where near 20 but i would like to see the stats which you are seeing because i do not have them to make a concrete opinion on this.

This is an open information and do not require any justification. Just google it.
The Pandit genocide was actually encouraged by the Indian state due to its negligence and political rhetoric in the aftermath. You should be asking this question to those who are decision makers in IoK.

If you have some negligence, how can you encourage something? Encouragement need some action and not negligence. So it is a contradiction in terms.

My only point is this. If you want a solution to a problem, you need to recognize it as it is. Just being politically correct will not help sir. We see this sort of sane talks going all around but it has not helped is solving any problem. We can discuss here as much as we wish but it will be a wastage of band width.

If the Kashmir Issue is a political one like you and @scorpionx say, I wish both of you good luck in finding a political solution.
 
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Unfortunately Kashmir cannot progress until India has a change in political culture. Sometimes you have to grasp the nettle.

Pakistan grasped the TTP nettle and it cost us a lot of money and lives - but we've now got a country where parts of it are not havens for terrorists. We have also recently grasped the TLP nettle with the Asia Bibi case. We've stopped backing away from these fringe groups hijacking core ideals of our society. Similarly I hope the next 5 years prove that we've stepped away from corruption and marched towards accountability.

None of these are directly linked to Kashmir, but it is about the state controlling the agenda and working towards the betterment of the nation, rather than maximising political opportunity for the duration of the term in parliament.

India has it's own similar nettles (Indian members will know best), which must be grasped and removed before there can be maturity in the dialouge between Pakistan and India wrt Kashmir. Most of these aren't issues directly related to Kashmir, but they will be issues that stop India from having a mature political dialouge.

From my perspective these are;
- Right wingers in your politics
- billionaires with too much political clout
- sensationalist media

If these are only viewed through a Kashmir-centric prism they will not be issues you can resolve. Kashmir is a cyclic problem. The cycle of increased militant activity vs increased security forces response. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? The answer will differ based on who you ask.

The issues that stop your political environment being mature must be addressed outside the scope of Kashmir. Once you have clipped the wings of fringe elements who hold too much weight in politics, only then can Indian leadership be emboldened to take risks to resolve the issue in Kashmir.
 
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Ah!! Yes. I was waiting for this one. In favor of radicals anti-nationals?

All right. If those who have taken guns and killed hindus are not radicals and anti National than I am wrong. I apologize
Pakistan mein chala jaun?

Pakistan was made for those who wanted an Islamic state. Those who used to think that they can not live with a majority Hindus. those who wanted the laws based on Sharia and those who wanted a state based on religion. When somebody fulfills all these criterion, they are told to go to Pakistan and there is nothing wrong in it. Now, whether you full fill above criterion or not is for you to judge and make decision. I or any person like me never say anybody to go to any other country without any reason.
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All right. If those who have taken guns and killed hindus are not radicals and anti National than I am wrong. I apologize


Pakistan was made for those who wanted an Islamic state. Those who used to think that they can not live with a majority Hindus. those who wanted the laws based on Sharia and those who wanted a state based on religion. When somebody fulfills all these criterion, they are told to go to Pakistan and there is nothing wrong in it. Now, whether you full fill above criterion or not is for you to judge and make decision. I or any person like me never say anybody to go to any other country without any reason.
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First part, an anti-national is not necessarily a religious fanatic and a religious fanatic is not necessarily anti-national.
Second part, BJP ministers often issue orders to go and live in Pakistan for be it opposing our Prime Minister, talking about opening the border for better trade or just aaweyii (Shri Vinay Katiyar). Since according to you I am supporting anti-nationals it is natural for me to assume that I must be handed over a similar directive too.

You call them Bhakts and they call you Anti-Nationals so you guys were made for each other. :D
See, I have a No First Use policy. Once a 'Pseudo-secular' is thrown at me, I just press the red button :D
 
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Few points :-
1. Education and jobs are not an antidote to militancy. Can be seen in the profiles of dead terrorists over the years.Shah Faesal didn't suddenly had a heart break over situation in Kashmir,it's evident that he had political ambitions ,previous UPA govts too killed hundreds of militants and used pellet guns indiscriminately but it's politically suitable to resign in this govt.

2. Islamic radicalization is a reality and can be seen on ground recent ISIS flags even in huriyat conferences shows even they can't control it.

3. Problem lies on the other side of LOC ,are we going to ignore where they get their training ? Who funds them ? Who provides weapons ? as for the local support ? we ourselves have to be blamed we made pathetic militants household names in this country.

4. Solution
Stop returning bodies to the families ,bury them in undisclosed locations.
Do covert operations rather than full blown encounters.
Avoid media.
Focus on Pakistan ,expose their state sponsor of terrorism and build support against it and create economic pressure.
Remove 35A or trifurcate the state.
 
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First part, an anti-national is not necessarily a religious fanatic and a religious fanatic is not necessarily anti-national.

I fully agree but am talking about those who are both.
Second part, BJP ministers often issue orders to go and live in Pakistan for be it opposing our Prime Minister, talking about opening the border for better trade or just aaweyii (Shri Vinay Katiyar).

All right but what shall we do with those who say that if police is removed than Muslims will finish all Hindus . We have never questioned you quoting those guys. What shall we do to those who seat with people extremely against India in enemy nation and say that you have to support them to remove Indian Prime minister. So when you ask me a question quoting Vinay katiyar, I can ask back ten question against each one asked by you but I will never done that like you . I have enough genuine question to ask you and I do not need to quote a nutcase to prove something.
Since according to you I am supporting anti-nationals it is natural for me to assume that I must be handed over a similar directive too.

You are a poor reader. Please show me where did I write it in my comment. I have specifically written three points to justify what I said (Should go to Pakistan) . I have not used word anti national in that specific points where that advise (Not directives as you say) is applicable and to any anti national is not among them.
 
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I fully agree but am talking about those who are both.


All right but what shall we do with those who say that if police is removed than Muslims will finish all Hindus . We have never questioned you quoting those guys. What shall we do to those who seat with people extremely against India in enemy nation and say that you have to support them to remove Indian Prime minister. So when you ask me a question quoting Vinay katiyar, I can ask back ten question against each one asked by you but I will never done that like you . I have enough genuine question to ask you and I do not need to quote a nutcase to prove something.
We have a Penal code. If someone has said like this appropriate law should be applied to him/her. Clear enough, I hope?
You are a poor reader. Please show me where did I write it in my comment. I have specifically written three points to justify what I said (Should go to Pakistan) . I have not used word anti national in that specific points where that advise (Not directives as you say) is applicable and to any anti national is not among them.

It was just clarification of my own statement, nothing else. Please do not over read.
 
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