Is it really a problem?

[Huda]

Some members were even unable to read national anthm properly and dnt know who was the last governer general of pakistan shameful.

 

[Jango]

Looking at some of the cases, it isn't a question of religious awareness anymore IMO.

When you ask somebody DUrood-e-Ibrahimi and he says 'Oh, masla hi nhn' and then recites Surah Ikhlas, you know what kind of a person you are dealing with. We expect people like these to lead our country and represent us in assemblies and make laws?

It's a simple IQ type question...we don't want to have dunces in assemblies after all.

I bet they don't even know Pakistan's neighbors and all that...just the most basic knowledge about Pakistan...

If a guy can't differentiate b/w Surakh Ikhlas and Durood Shareef and get basic things right, how can we expect him to fully represent us in assemblies.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Looking at some of the cases, it isn't a question of religious awareness anymore IMO.

When you ask somebody DUrood-e-Ibrahimi and he says 'Oh, masla hi nhn' and then recites Surah Ikhlas, you know what kind of a person you are dealing with. We expect people like these to lead our country and represent us in assemblies and make laws?

It's a simple IQ type question...we don't want to have dunces in assemblies after all.

I bet they don't even know Pakistan's neighbors and all that...just the most basic knowledge about Pakistan...

If a guy can't differentiate b/w Surakh Ikhlas and Durood Shareef and get basic things right, how can we expect him to fully represent us in assemblies.

But isn't the requirement of being educated to at least a certain level supposed to take care of that?

After all, basic education in Pakistan is designed to cover all these points. So if a person contesting the polls has submitted a proper education diploma or degree of the required level, then why go any further than that?

 

[Amaa'n]

But isn't the requirement of being educated to at least a certain level supposed to take care of that?

After all, basic education in Pakistan is designed to cover all these points. So if a person contesting the polls has submitted a proper education diploma or degree of the required level, then why go any further than that?

bearing certain degree or a diploma does not actual make someone of good islamic character. I doubt it on the mere fact that the schools which are making kids dance on a song right when maghrib azaan is given.

@OP, I believe this is not to check there islamic character but rather determine if the candidate bear any moral character. I saw this one guy who did not even know DOB of Quaid-e-azam....and people don't even know what happened on 23rd march

 

[Argus Panoptes]

bearing certain degree or a diploma does not actual make someone of good islamic character. I doubt it on the mere fact that the schools which are making kids dance on a song right when maghrib azaan is given.

@OP, I believe this is not to check there islamic character but rather determine if the candidate bear any moral character. I saw this one guy who did not even know DOB of Quaid-e-azam....and people don't even know what happened on 23rd march

Why not? The whole thrust of the education system, with compulsory lessons on Islam and Pakistan at all levels, is to produce good Muslims and Pakistanis, right?

 

[pashah naz]

We invoke religion for each and every thing we do. I do not think invoking religion is a good idea anywhere. I was listening to Imran Khan's speech and it was largely the same thing... he uses religion and talks the big talk. I don't really like it. Religion is a personal matter that should simply stay at home.

pakistan was created in the name of RELIGION ........

 

[Amaa'n]

s

Why not? The whole thrust of the education system, with compulsory lessons on Islam and Pakistan at all levels, is to produce good Muslims and Pakistanis, right?

So are of view that just by reading one tiny little book of Islamic Studies make someone a true believer and by reading a small book on Pakistan Studies will make them a Patriot? I am talking about education at college and school level.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

s

So are of view that just by reading one tiny little book of Islamic Studies make someone a true believer and by reading a small book on Pakistan Studies will make them a Patriot? I am talking about education at college and school level.

If I am to follow your line of reasoning, then why not require a Master's from Jamia Al-Azhar in Islamic Studies and another Master's from Kakul in the Ideology of Pakistan, to stand in any election, just to be sure that we are electing true Islamic Patriots? How many of these qualified and approved candidates can we realistically find?

Think of it this way: the representatives of the people need to be drawn from the people, not from a limited elitist cadre that is defined and selected by an oligarchy according to conveniently ambiguous rules and rigged elections. Now think of the average voter, and then think of who should come from those people to represent them, a product of the same schools and society. Otherwise there is no representative democracy of the people, by the people and for the people.

I would suggest that the horribly corrupt and miserably performing governments are truly representative of the people of Pakistan too. It may be too harsh to say that, but it is not far from the truth either.

 

[muse]

In praise of all jamaatis, who called Pakistan "Napakistan" and who called the Quaid e Azam the "Kafir e Azam" and who today assert that Pakistan was created in the name of their religion:

As we had pointed out earlier, when we gave the example of the Talib requiring all adult males to have and keep a beard and the result of that lunacy, it was bound to come up in Islamistan

Scrutiny, sexism and a spelling bee
By Rana Yasif / Khalid Qayyum
Published: April 4, 2013


The petitioner pointed out that, since the former CM had no beard, he is clearly in violation of Articles 62 and 63.
LAHORE:

The scrutiny of electoral hopefuls has seemingly turned into a theatre of the absurd.

On Wednesday, returning officers (ROs) sought comments from former chief minister Mian Shahbaz Sharif on four applications submitted against him seeking rejection of his nomination forms for the May 11 polls. While the filing of such applications is normal, some of the grounds seeking Shahbaz rejection are anything but. In one application, the petitioner pointed out that, since the former CM had no beard, he was clearly in violation of Articles 62 and 63. He also said that Shahbaz had taken no action against a person who wrote ‘Pakistan murdabad, Pakhtoonkhwa zindabad’ on his ballot paper in the 1997 elections.

The other petitions against him are on a more serious note, alleging corruption and claiming that Shahbaz is not in fact ‘Sadiq’ and ‘Ameen’ as he has, in the petitioner’s words, failed to give correct information about his sources of income. Yet another petition refers to the former CM’s involvement in the Asghar Khan case.

By and large, nominees had to face a great deal of embarrassment when they showed up for scrutiny only to face what amounted to a religious studies exam, with many hopefuls fumbling recitations of the Dua-e-Qanoot.

Former Pashto film actress Musarrat Shaheen, however, was not one of them. Shaheen, who is now the chairperson of the Tehreek-e-Musawat and is contesting NA-24 Dera Ismail Khan against Maulana Fazlur Rehman, had her papers accepted by the RO after breezing through the scrutiny process. After flawlessly reciting Sura Akhlas and Dua-e-Qunoot, Shaheen offered to recite Surah Yaseen and any other Quranic passage of the judge’s choosing. The offer was declined. Shaheen attributed her knowledge of Islam to her father, whom she also said was the only love of her life.

Scrutiny or sexism?

Other female candidates had to face questions of quite a different nature.

In Lahore, aspiring candidate Tayyaba Sohail Cheema was told by the provincial election commissioner Punjab, Anwar Mehboob, that she didn’t look her age. “You don’t seem to be 35, show your face to all around so that people can see that you seem much younger,” Mehboob directed her.

Another candidate, Sadia Sohail, who was accompanied by her husband Shahid Sohail, got a lesson in parenting. “When your wife will become MNA or MPA, all the arrangements at your home will be ruined and no one will be there to attend your children and they will be ruined,” Mehboob told her husband.

On the other hand, aspiring candidate Shoaib Khan Niazi of NA 121, used the occasion to profess his love for his wife. When asked if he had any children by RO Rai Ayoub Khan Marth, Niazi replied that he did not. He went on to tell the court that he had a wife whom he loved very much and who loved him in return. “I am nothing without my wife,” said Niazi. Seemingly satisfied with this response, the RO then asked him if he offered prayers to which Niazi candidly replied that he did not.

Spelling Bee

Over in Karachi, Sunni Tehreek’s Ps-128 candidate Zahid Ahmad had to face embarrassment when he was asked 3 simple questions by Additional district and sessions court judge Farzana Iqbal. Ahmad was asked what the abbreviation LLB stands for and how to spell ‘graduation’ and ‘superintendent’. He was wrong on all three counts.

 

[Jango]

But isn't the requirement of being educated to at least a certain level supposed to take care of that?

After all, basic education in Pakistan is designed to cover all these points. So if a person contesting the polls has submitted a proper education diploma or degree of the required level, then why go any further than that?

Wasn't the degree requirement finished?

 

[Spring Onion]

In light of the recent reports that the Returning officer is asking potential candidates for elections some religious verses such as Ayat Al Kursi and Duay Qanoot etc.

THis is supposedly in order to validate that a person is of good Islamic character in accordance with article 62 and 63 (which I personally think are absolutely BS).

This has kicked up a big debate in TV shows, and one is going on in Hamir Mir's show.

So what do you folks think, is it a right thing?

I personally believe yes. Yes, the articles in law might be BS and kind of stupid, but as long as they are there, they should be implemented. If a person is going to contest elections, he has to be of good character and knowing Islamic injunctions...and one of the few simple and short ways is to ask him these things. So what is the harm? Asking Islamic things isn't a crime is it?

BTW, they also ask you this stuff in ISSB!

Comments please. This isn't a religious thread, rather a thread which focuses on the how to implement the constitution, and whether this is the right way.

@Awesome, @Aeronaut, @Leader, @muse, @Oscar, @Rafael, @Emmie, @haviZsultan...

I have also added a poll.

article 62-63 were incorporated by famouse Zia in the origonal constitution so its indeed biased.

but lets debate it

1. These articles does NOT mean that an intending candidate must remember every ayat of Quran.

2. if one remembers so and so verse or Ayatul kursi does it mean he is a GOOD Muslim? how will one prove that he is NOT a liar?

3. The only good point about these two articles that must be applied is "if any candidate lies about his assest/education/qualification" s/he must be disqualified.

rest anyone can cram the ayats for filing nomination papers.

not a big deal

 

[Jango]

article 62-63 were incorporated by famouse Zia in the origonal constitution so its indeed biased.

but lets debate it

1. These articles does NOT mean that an intending candidate must remember every ayat of Quran.

2. if one remembers so and so verse or Ayatul kursi does it mean he is a GOOD Muslim? how will one prove that he is NOT a liar?

I agree with you, but the law is in place...so how do you verify the credibility of the candidate? This is where the ECP and government failed. ECP didb't set any guidelines, and the government did not amend the law or finish it altogether. Because let's face it, this law is stupid...

 

[Fracker]

article 62-63 were incorporated by famouse Zia in the origonal constitution so its indeed biased.

Just because Zia added them, it doesn't means it's incorrect. Democracy means you find issue in original constitution and correct it. So Zia placed lots of amendments to correct it.

but lets debate it

1. These articles does NOT mean that an intending candidate must remember every ayat of Quran.

Yes, But this does means he has enough qualification to atleast call himself muslim. A normal Muslim learn Surah Iqkhlas, Surah Fatiya, Dua-e-qanoot without these you can pray, so what kind of muslim he is who don't pray at all? As Per Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) prayer is the main difference between Muslim and Kaffir so forget Artical 62-B and 62-C, it's written in article 1 that He need to be a muslim.

2. if one remembers so and so verse or Ayatul kursi does it mean he is a GOOD Muslim? how will one prove that he is NOT a liar?

No ofcourse not, but its certainly proofs one thing that he is "Muslim", who ask protection from Allah

3. The only good point about these two articles that must be applied is "if any candidate lies about his assest/education/qualification" s/he must be disqualified.

That's worldly

rest anyone can cram the ayats for filing nomination papers.

not a big deal

Fine then do it, why they hell running around?

 

[Spring Onion]

I agree with you, but the law is in place...so how do you verify the credibility of the candidate? This is where the ECP and government failed. ECP didb't set any guidelines, and the government did not amend the law or finish it altogether. Because let's face it, this law is stupid...

verification of assests/degrees has atleast done some work.

rest personal traits cant be judged through asking about reciting surahs.

even a JI candidate failed to recite duae qanoot

 

[Spring Onion]

Just because Zia added them, it doesn't means it's incorrect. Democracy means you find issue in original constitution and correct it. So Zia placed lots of amendments to correct it.

what was correct in that.

Yes, But this does means he has enough qualification to atleast call himself muslim. A normal Muslim learn Surah Iqkhlas, Surah Fatiya, Dua-e-qanoot without these you can pray, so what kind of muslim he is who don't pray at all? As Per Prophet Muhammad (SAWW) prayer is the main difference between Muslim and Kaffir so forget Artical 62-B and 62-C, it's written in article 1 that He need to be a muslim.

reciting Kalima is enough to qualify as a Muslim.

rest of the things they learn with passage of time.

what if a newly converted Muslim apply for election? will he be able to recite on spot?











That's worldly

Fine then do it, why they hell running around?

that would be a facepalm not going to help the country