Is China’s top university not good enough for him?

[Maxtini]

I think Chinese (and Korean) need to change their mindset regarding university education.

It become sensational in Chinese society because there is excessive emphasize being placed on university education. I have met a lot of third year chinese students and I would say 8 out of 10 don't even have any clear career planning in their mind near graduation.

What they know is to only put all of their effort to attain an extremely high "gaokao" grades and go to prestigious university as and end to itself without trying to learn about their interest, as if all will be well once you get into the university. A lot of them even don't mind choosing "less popular" field such as philosophy, literature, foreign language major as long as they can get admitted into Peking University!

I think that was the case with Zhou Hao. It is good that he realized the mistakes and pursue what he really want.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Dunno why ppl here are talking about Harvard, Stanford, MIT, etc. so casually. None of us go there or to any school that's even close.

I think Chinese (and Korean) need to change their mindset regarding university education.

It become sensational in Chinese society because there is excessive emphasize being placed on university education. I have met a lot of third year chinese students and I would say 8 out of 10 don't even have any clear career planning in their mind near graduation.

What they know is to only attain an extremely high "gaokao" grades and go to prestigious university as and end to itself, as if all will be well once you get into the university. A lot of them even don't mind choosing "less popular" field such as philosophy, literature, foreign language major as long as they can get admitted into Peking University!

I think that was the case with Zhou Hao. It is good that he realized the mistakes and pursue what he really want.

No I think not having careers planned out is a problem of college students in general. Just ask around any US university. This is your problem right here. You attach the problems shared by all youth to Chinese youth in particular.

I've never thought it was sensational in terms of news itself - it is sensational in the way it was reported. In the US, if a news article says "Student drops out of Harvard to attend ITT Tech", do you really think that the comments would be as supportive as the ones on PDF? If you do, you need to learn alot more about real American culture (as opposed to Hollywood American culture).

 

[Maxtini]

Just for your information, nearly half of US university undergraduate students drop out of schools or transfer to other schools in the middle of their program.
This is seen as normal~ so I don't think there would ever be news sensationalizing that.

Yes, youth all over the world typically have problems sorting out their career plan, but it doesn't mean they did not sort them out in the first place. Just take a look at university entrance requirement for European and American Universities, they put more emphasized in personal essay (describing goal, career plan, motivation, etc) and extracurricular activities rather than mere SAT or transcript scores. It is to make sure that those applicants think first about their career plan and goals in life before applying to universities.

If they change their interest or find universities life unsuitable for their career goal, then they will already know that and they're free to resign from schools. The high transfer and drop out rate of US universities is testament for that.

It is different with Chinese students (and other Asian student) though. Because emphasize is too much given on test scores and the competition is fierce, students are occupied with getting high gaokao scores and obsessed about entering universities that they forget to think about that seriously and sort them out first. Some even don't care what major they're going to take as long as they can be admitted to universities and graduated with bachelor degree.

 

[tranquilium]

I can't find the Chinese name for Beijing Industrial Technical College. It is actually Beijing Institute of Technology (北工大)?

If so, I am not sure vocational school is a proper description for it. Vocational school (相当于专科) typically refer to schools that offer equivalent degree to the bachelor degree, but typically with less strict requirements and focus on immediate employment opportunities. That's more like said dropped off from Harvard and started attending Berkeley. Sure, Harvard is considered more prestigious than Berkeley, but Berkeley engineering degree is superior.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Just for your information, nearly half of US university undergraduate students drop out of schools or transfer to other schools in the middle of their program.
This is seen as normal~ so I don't think there would ever be news sensationalizing that.

Yes, youth all over the world typically have problems sorting out their career plan, but it doesn't mean they did not sort them out in the first place. Just take a look at university entrance requirement for European and American Universities, they put more emphasized in personal essay (describing goal, career plan, motivation, etc) and extracurricular activities rather than mere SAT or transcript scores. It is to make sure that those applicants think first about their career plan and goals in life before applying to universities.

If they change their interest or find universities life unsuitable for their career goal, then they will already know that and they're free to resign from schools. The high transfer and drop out rate of US universities is testament for that.

It is different with Chinese students (and other Asian student) though. Because emphasize is too much given on test scores and the competition is fierce, students are occupied with getting high gaokao scores and obsessed about entering universities that they forget to think about that seriously and sort them out first. Some even don't care what major they're going to take as long as they can be admitted to universities and graduated with bachelor degree.

How many drop out of Harvard? I'm not asking how many drop out of Texas Tech, because plenty of Chinese students drop out of 2nd tier colleges too. Very few drop out of Harvard without being already rich enough that they just walk into a startup. Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates are exceptions; that's why they're sensationalized. Both had very rich parents and could afford to drop out of Harvard with little risk. A rural kid from Wyoming or an inner city kid from South Central LA would never drop out of Harvard if they got in, just because the risk is so high and they don't want to go back to the farm or the ghetto.

I think you need a better understanding of the US system. The number of students that drop out voluntarily is not high. When you mean "finding that college isn't for them", it isn't that they're doing well, and decide, you know what, college sucks. It is they get multiple Fs, school sends them a warning, and they realize, better drop out before kicked out. Transfers are mostly from community colleges to 4 year universities. I am an instructor, I talk to these kids often. You are idealizing things in the Hollywood style.

Also you should realize that personal statements are complete bullshit most of the time. I've written more than my share, they're total crap. The "extracurricular activities" are just resume padding by the rich. You have *alot* to learn about the US before you start telling me about the US. You know the Hollywood US, not the real US.

 

[Maxtini]

How many drop out of Harvard? I'm not asking how many drop out of Texas Tech, because plenty of Chinese students drop out of 2nd tier colleges too. Very few drop out of Harvard without being already rich enough that they just walk into a startup. Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates are exceptions; that's why they're sensationalized. Both had very rich parents and could afford to drop out of Harvard with little risk. A rural kid from Wyoming or an inner city kid from South Central LA would never drop out of Harvard if they got in, just because the risk is so high and they don't want to go back to the farm or the ghetto.

I think you need a better understanding of the US system. The number of students that drop out voluntarily is not high. When you mean "finding that college isn't for them", it isn't that they're doing well, and decide, you know what, college sucks. It is they get multiple Fs, school sends them a warning, and they realize, better drop out before kicked out. Transfers are mostly from community colleges to 4 year universities. I am an instructor, I talk to these kids often. You are idealizing things in the Hollywood style.

Also you should realize that personal statements are complete bullshit most of the time. I've written more than my share, they're total crap. The "extracurricular activities" are just resume padding by the rich. You have *alot* to learn about the US before you start telling me about the US. You know the Hollywood US, not the real US.

Harvard have 14% of students who fail to graduate in 4 years and 3% who never finish at all~ in contrast Chinese universities has less than 1% rate.

Judging from your tone, I could only says its only your negative perception then~ there are no "Hollywood US" or "Real US", only your negative/cynical view.

From my own experience, those students with multiple Fs typically didn't even bother to put any effort in their undergraduate program. It isn't that they find the program hard and then get an F, but most of the times they find it not worth pursuing (due to financial reason (expensive tuition), debt, getting new interest, finding paying jobs, etc). A minority of them get F due to personal reason other than that. But that's another issue~

Having a personal essay and extra curricular as requirement for university admission is the chance to let those kids reflect on themselves. It is not bullshit if you genuinely write it up yourself. A lot of my students have a change of mind after writing their first essays and resume.

If you find it bullshit, then you're already a loser because you only go to university just for the sake of university~ you made up the personal essay only to get admitted into the university. Typically those are the attitude you find from students with asian background (and Indian to certain extent). That is why I said the Chinese and Korean need to change their mindset about university education.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Harvard have 14% of students who fail to graduate in 4 years and 3% who never finish at all~ in contrast Chinese universities has less than 1% rate.

Judging from your tone, I could only says its only your negative perception then~ there are no "Hollywood US" or "Real US", only your negative/cynical view.

From my own experience, those students with multiple Fs typically didn't even bother to put any effort in their undergraduate program. It isn't that they find the program hard and then get an F, but most of the times they find it not worth pursuing (due to financial reason (expensive tuition), debt, getting new interest, finding paying jobs, etc). A minority of them get F due to personal reason other than that. But that's another issue~

Having a personal essay and extra curricular as requirement for university admission is the chance to let those kids reflect on themselves. It is not bullshit if you genuinely write it up yourself. A lot of my students have a change of mind after writing their first essays and resume.

If you find it bullshit, then you're already a loser because you only go to university just for the sake of university~ you made up the personal essay only to get admitted into the university. Typically those are the attitude you find from students with asian background (and Indian to certain extent). That is why I said the Chinese and Korean need to change their mindset about university education.

This is funny. You have never been to the US and only know the US through movies and media. And you are telling me, what the US is like.

The personal essay is to test people's writing ability. No one will hold you to do what the personal essay says. It should be relatively accurate so they don't put you in the wrong major or something, but other than that, you are free to change. Extracurriculars are mostly for resume padding, and it is a recognized problem.

School Clubs: Worthy Extracurricular Pursuits? Or Just Padding for College Resumes? : The Academy Road

Extracurricular Activities: Are We Too Pressured to Join? : The Elm

You also seem to think that getting F's is a problem with attitude and not ability. I disagree. It is most certainly ability based, especially in math and physics. But you can keep deluding yourself if you want.

The more you say, the more I think you know nothing about the US and need to start learning if you want to do anything there beyond tourism. Or you can stay in Indonesia and keep imagining what the US is like. Who is the loser?

 

[Maxtini]

This is funny. You have never been to the US and only know the US through movies and media. And you are telling me, what the US is like.

The personal essay is to test people's writing ability. No one will hold you to do what the personal essay says. It should be relatively accurate so they don't put you in the wrong major or something, but other than that, you are free to change. Extracurriculars are mostly for resume padding, and it is a recognized problem.

School Clubs: Worthy Extracurricular Pursuits? Or Just Padding for College Resumes? : The Academy Road

Extracurricular Activities: Are We Too Pressured to Join? : The Elm

You also seem to think that getting F's is a problem with attitude and not ability. I disagree. It is most certainly ability based, especially in math and physics. But you can keep deluding yourself if you want.

The more you say, the more I think you know nothing about the US and need to start learning if you want to do anything there beyond tourism. Or you can stay in Indonesia and keep imagining what the US is like. Who is the loser?

How can you know I never get to US?

That's exactly your problem I see~ You assume too much and treat them as fact, that's why you have those cynical view and perception.

I don;t see the problem with extracurricular activities. Even if students are compelled to join these activities because they need to look good on their resume, they will get new perspective and learn at least something new from the activities in the end. How is that a bad thing and problem? It is not that "Oh, I joined A club and B club, and do nothing!"

 

[bolo]

This news grabbed my attention as, as a social scientist, I have kept wondering the merits of theoretical education in comparison to practical education in terms of their impact on real world.

I feel that a nation should dedicate more of its students to vocational training while the theoretical work is left to a select few.

This news below represents such bold action on a personal level.

Via CCTV News:

Zhou Hao, a Chinese student who decided to drop out from Peking University in his junior year and transfer to a vocational school, said recently that he felt no regret about his decision, China Youth Daily reported.

Peking University, considered as one of the top universities in China, is the dream university for millions of high school students who work tirelessly throughout their adolescent years to get their feet into the door.

Nevertheless, Zhou has chosen a different path. He was accepted and enrolled into the university in 2008, but says he was unable to adapt to the theoretical study of life sciences, and eventually he chose to drop out in 2011.

After a few struggles, he ended up at Beijing Industrial Technical College, a vocational school focusing more on practical operations where he says he was able to regain his interest in mechanical operations.

"I was very fortunate to make the choice six years ago. Also, what I'm learning now is very helpful to other people," Zhou said. “Your life would be ruined if you keep changing yourself into something that you don’t like.”

Even though he has received a number of job offers before graduation, a large number of online users are still dumbfounded by his decision and think it is questionable. In terms of teaching quality, the vocational schools in China are considered far inferior to regular colleges, not to mention top universities.

Would you support his decision to drop out from the top Chinese university?

I would not support a science or engineer major dropping out of any university for vocational school. But any liberal courses/major yeah drop it in a heart beat. It's useless and put you in debt for life with no career opportunity.

In his case I say it's ok as he is pursuing another field that is practical and will add value to China's growth.

As far as inferior teaching, I need to know what is meant by that in China? Are the professors not qualfied? Even second rate universities require professors with credentials.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

How can you know I never get to US?

Because your views are like that of someone who has never been to the US as anything other than a tourist.