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Iraqi PM visits Iraqi Hezbollah and wears their uniform

Well, the Egyptian civilization before Islam wasn't an Islamic one obviously. Islam is the common element of people in the Middle East (except Israel which is a transplant to the region). Pan-Arabism is more about language differences than religion.
But from the books Bob Bear wrote, Pan-Arabism is a euphemism for the Middle east's "Sunni primacy", which i agree with. You are correct Pan- Arabism is dead, but i believe what killed it was the proof that it was a failure at defending priority Muslim interests in the Middle East. Even on PDF, the tougher they talk, the more likely the weaker the real position of their country(relatively).

So, Iranian regime gets support from non-religious people too? Is there any article/essay/study on this?
Offcourse. the problem here is you have a faulty premise- you think that the Iranian regime has only 1 side- the religious side. Thats def not true.
 
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Um, no! You being from an apparently civilized country should already know that you dont take the laws into your hands just because you can. it seems TUrkey is more like a dicatorship/militaristic regime just hiding behind NATO and image of democracy?
Um yes,instead of coming up with childish excusess,you should do some research on why we can just get in and do what we do,maybe there was deal made with Iraq?
Hiding behind NATO for a country like Iraq,really Iraq?
 
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Comparing the 1979 revolution with..

a combination of 1991 war, sanctions, several more bombings, 2003 invasion and ISIS in 2014 is quite a joke. The war did not start in 2003, and it did not end in 2003. It never ended, it sparked in 2006-2008 (known as the surge) and exploded in 2014. It started in 1991 for your info. Iran has not been through what Iraq went through, your last war was in 1988. The US could have done the same to you back then, what was Iran capable of in 1991? Iraq was able to stop you.

Seems like you have an issue with me stating the general public's opinion.
Also remember that for at least 5-10 years now, US has allows Iraq to rebuild its oil industry, and sell its oil and gas unhindered. This is a big plus for the Iraqi state that you have to accept that Iran doesnt have. Iraq is where it is because its not united, so the Iranian user who said Iraq is not united is correct. Iran is where she is, because Iran has such a large, capable population that is united in national issues (but still, maybe not everything). This is the same problem that all federal systems have, which US and Iraq are both - the internal divisions are like chronic diseases- they stay forever and wear down the countries unless they offset that with alternatives like good economy, good jobs, happy citizens, etc...at least most federal countries this happens.

Saddam was a secular ruler from the Baath party. He promoted Pan-Arabism. Apart from the fact that he was a delirious fool, he tried to do good things for Iraq but his radical Pan-Arabism ideas and his overestimation of his powers got him killed at the end.
As an Iranian, i assume you ALREADY know how it looks when an Iranian talks about Saddam and doesnt bash him. LOL

He's long dead, life goes on
but his decisions and actions are responsible to a large extent the unhappiness and stress that modern day Iraqi citizens experience. History!
 
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Also remember that for at least 5-10 years now, US has allows Iraq to rebuild its oil industry, and sell its oil and gas unhindered. This is a big plus for the Iraqi state that you have to accept that Iran doesnt have. Iraq is where it is because its not united, so the Iranian user who said Iraq is not united is correct. Iran is where she is, because Iran has such a large, capable population that is united in national issues (but still, maybe not everything). This is the same problem that all federal systems have, which US and Iraq are both - the internal divisions are like chronic diseases- they stay forever and wear down the countries unless they offset that with alternatives like good economy, good jobs, happy citizens, etc...at least most federal countries this happens.

The Iraqi state is corrupt as hell, it makes no difference when the money goes into pockets of a select few elite.

Also I did not reply as there's no way to put sense into someone still stuck with the 80s war whilst Iraq has gone through 3-4 other major wars in the meantime, and he writes it off as nothing major.

From 91 till 2003 not only oil sales were put to a complete stop, all foreign trade was banned completely. The sanctions on Iran are lightweight in comparison. Iran has not been through anything in comparison, no tanks were rolling it its streets, Iraq is no major military figure compared to the US. Iran's passive stance saved them so far, all their adventures are through proxies.
 
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You will always find a way to blame Turks while its the Iranians and Americans that are looting your country and there will be no end to it if you continue this mentality.

You are just one in the list of endless enemies that Turks have, just get in line, there are other who came before you. :D
NOT A TREATY! did you hear that? so can you accept i am correct that Turkey didnt follow international law when it setup its multiple outposts in northern Iraq some years ago???? You see, what you accused me of(not knowing international law), is what you actually did. smh.
 
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You will always find a way to blame Turks
Well what good has Turkey done for Iraq? other than bombing PKK, mobilizing ISIS adgainst Syria and IRaq for or in colusion with NATO, and siphoning out Kurdish oil via Ceyhan...
while its the Iranians and Americans that are looting your country
Please ignore all the military equipment, cement, consumer products, security training, electricity provision, industrial expansion, etc that these countries did. we wont ignore the fact that Turkey doesnt even have 1 good contribution to Iraq though.

One final question - IS Turkey's routing of KRG's oil into Turkey for whatever reasons actually legal per Iraqi federal constitution?? Just asking to make sure Turkey is not a complete looter of Iraq and opportunist there.
 
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Um yes,instead of coming up with childish excusess,you should do some research on why we can just get in and do what we do,maybe there was deal made with Iraq?
Hiding behind NATO for a country like Iraq,really Iraq?

You are speaking of deals and laws right?

I am telling you there is no such deal with the current government, there is no by law legally bound agreement. Unless you want to pull a deal out of ur *** I can't help you with this argument.

Since when did Erdogan care about laws and deals, when he even violates his own constitution whenever it suits him. E.g. he has no university degree, yet is leading the country.

Speaking of PKK, the entire KRG is a big PKK. Although why is this even argued, we don't care about the Kurds.
 
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Turkey has interests as a nation.
Every country does, so this doesnt mean much.
Lots of them directly collide with 'American and Zionist' interests as you like to say.
Are you sure? is this why US is currently hoping for or and preparing Turkey to corner Iran in the Middle East?https://warontherocks.com/2020/05/strategic-fail-partnering-with-turkey-to-counter-iran-would-misread-the-region/ (Btw tis is only 1 example)
So kindly spare us your egotistical recycled rhetorical junk.
It sounds like egotistical junk to you but you cant prove any of it is a lie, so its facts.

You don't have to believe it, but he is an Persian nationalist atheist.
Who? Iranian Supreme Leader?? i am going to assume thats not who you mean..
 
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The Iraqi state is corrupt as hell, it makes no difference when the money goes into pockets of a select few elite.

Also I did not reply as there's no way to put sense into someone still stuck with the 80s war whilst Iraq has gone through 3-4 other major wars in the meantime, and he writes it off as nothing major.

From 91 till 2003 not only oil sales were put to a complete stop, all foreign trade was banned completely. The sanctions on Iran are lightweight in comparison. Iran has not been through anything in comparison, no tanks were rolling it its streets, Iraq is no major military figure compared to the US. Iran's passive stance saved them so far, all their adventures are through proxies.

You dont get the point. You are in your state because it was inevitable. Try to understand, you allowed yourself to get destroyed, because you had no unity, and there was no one to unite you, as you had nothing to unite over. Understand better? You are in this state because you allowed it. Tanks rolled in your streets because you allowed it. You cant say "no tanks were rolling it its streets" and use that to argue we "Iran has not been through anything in comparison" Yes no tank rolled down our streets because we did not allow it. Its not like they didn't try. They have been trying for decades, but we didn't allow it. We handled US. You have oil just like us. You had access to the world market, we didn't. The war cost us vastly more than it cost you. But what happened after the war? You attacked Kuwait because you were bankrupt and needed cash fast. We handled it and rebuilt our country and economy.

I dont like the current government, I am not a Persian, and I am not a Shia. But if any foreign power tries to overthrow our government, if any ethnic group tries to separate from Iran, or if any group starts sectarian conflicts. I dont care who they are, I will join the government, against the people.
 
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Says iranian pro-mullah regime “nationalist” living in US
The level of hypocrisy is surreal
ad hominem here. You're not countering any real point. this is another reason why i dont give your posts likes.

Um yes,instead of coming up with childish excusess,
Translation - you are saying what i dont care to understand.

you should do some research on why we can just get in and do what we do
then why dont you educate me on the research YOU did?? I mean @xenon54 already said that Turkey has a treaty with Iraq to setup outposts in Northern Iraq, but none exists.
,maybe there was deal made with Iraq?
If you have to ask, there most likely isnt, only for temporary cross border raids probably. I dont believe IRaq formally allowed TUrkey setup military bases in Northern Iraq. Turkey probably did that with US approval. TUrkey always do what US tells TUrkey to do.
Hiding behind NATO for a country like Iraq,really Iraq?
Have you seen any lie yet? Afterall, when Turkey ran into Syria, sorry, invaded Syria...and then got "hit"by Russians, who did Turkey try to blackmail for this? Yup- EU...aka NATO brothers... Turkey is either in love with, or devoted to, or a slave of, the white CHrstian alliance called nATO. NATO aka US also, is now forcing Turkey to become friends with ISrael again, so NATO seems to be going for a US-Turkey-ISreal plan to corner Iran in the ME. I hope you guys have real stamina...if you dont need NATO then exit NATO. from tomorrow you will start getting hit and you know it.

But Assad is Pan-Arabist too (ideologically)???
hmm...first of all i'm not an expert on this, but i will express what i ithink as i best as i can - I believe Assad was/is more of a Socialist, anti-imperialism Arab..But the meaning of Pan Arabism might've also changed...because the old generation had different issues , contexts, mindsets, situations going on that now/more recent times..
 
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You dont get the point. You are in your state because it was inevitable. Try to understand, you allowed yourself to get destroyed, because you had no unity, and there was no one to unite you, as you had nothing to unite over. Understand better? You are in this state because you allowed it. Tanks rolled in your streets because you allowed it. You cant say "no tanks were rolling it its streets" and use that to argue we "Iran has not been through anything in comparison" Yes no tank rolled down our streets because we did not allow it. Its not like they didn't try. They have been trying for decades, but we didn't allow it. We handled US. You have oil just like us. You had access to the world market, we didn't. The war cost us vastly more than it cost you. But what happened after the war? You attacked Kuwait because you were bankrupt and needed cash fast. We handled it and rebuilt our country and economy.

I dont like the current government, I am not a Persian, and I am not a Shia. But if any foreign power tries to overthrow our government, if any ethnic group tries to separate from Iran, or if any group starts sectarian conflicts. I dont care who they are, I will join the government, against the people.

I'm not disagreeing on that the previous regime of Saddam wasn't representative of the majority of Iraqis. However the majority did join the state side during the Iran Iraq war. The discontent with the regime grew in the 90s which has a valid reason, you keep forgetting that the sanctions were in no way similar to that of Iran's. The sanctions were on every single import and export, not just oil. As a result 500k babies died, now all of that adding up made the average person indeed wish for his removal.

This all doesn't take away the ability of us to say that Iran is a negative influence. Which is what my comments started with. This is the general publics opinion, invite some Hezbollah's and basijis in your home if you think they're such a great influence. They're not focused on growth and development, rather they seek to become a bastion of resistance acting on Iran's behalf whilst we will be targeted.

This, as anyone with half a brain would know is not in our interest. I stated that. That's the point.
 
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You dont get the point. You are in your state because it was inevitable. Try to understand, you allowed yourself to get destroyed, because you had no unity, and there was no one to unite you, as you had nothing to unite over. Understand better? You are in this state because you allowed it. Tanks rolled in your streets because you allowed it. You cant say "no tanks were rolling it its streets" and use that to argue we "Iran has not been through anything in comparison" Yes no tank rolled down our streets because we did not allow it. Its not like they didn't try. They have been trying for decades, but we didn't allow it. We handled US. You have oil just like us. You had access to the world market, we didn't. The war cost us vastly more than it cost you. But what happened after the war? You attacked Kuwait because you were bankrupt and needed cash fast. We handled it and rebuilt our country and economy.

I dont like the current government, I am not a Persian, and I am not a Shia. But if any foreign power tries to overthrow our government, if any ethnic group tries to separate from Iran, or if any group starts sectarian conflicts. I dont care who they are, I will join the government, against the people.

Saying there was nothing to unite over shows a lack of understanding of group identity, you can manufacture an Identity around the silliest of things given proper understanding of human behavior and a good foundation to start from.

For Iraq the foundation of a great identity is there, Iraq is majority arab with other minorities, Baghdad was the capital of the Abbasid empire, the Islamic nation with greatest number of scientific acheivements, made by people of all ethnicities, the Islamic golden age, pretty much all sunnah writers came from here, the mecca of Shia is here... we can write pages .

It would have been trivial for any ape to unite the people around this common heritage, but not Sadam... Sadam wanted to impose Baathism, which is Arabism with some things added, an ethnicity based ideology about arabs and only arabs.

Sadam made kurds into baathist, a kurd 'forced' to be Arab, he oppressed Shias not acknowledging their differences, entered 2 unpopular devastating wars of which absolutely nothing was gained.

Who would unite under such a ruler ?

In the end, the shia developed a grudge against Sadam and would not fight for him, the Kurds were already given autonomy and helped bring the country down.

Ofcourse neither would have been able to stop a US military compaign of that size, so wether they would allow it or not is of moderate consequence.

But the keypoint here is, Sadam attempted to impose an Ideology incompatible with the country's history, ethnic/religous composition and heritage, its not that there is nothing to unite over, we simply had one of the worse rulers in contemporary history.
 
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I'm not disagreeing on that the previous regime of Saddam wasn't representative of the majority of Iraqis. However the majority did join the state side during the Iran Iraq war. The discontent with the regime grew in the 90s which has a valid reason, you keep forgetting that the sanctions were in no way similar to that of Iran's. The sanctions were on every single import and export, not just oil. As a result 500k babies died, now all of that adding up made the average person indeed wish for his removal.

This all doesn't take away the ability of us to say that Iran is a negative influence. Which is what my comments started with. This is the general publics opinion, invite some Hezbollah's and basijis in your home if you think they're such a great influence. They're not focused on growth and development, rather they seek to become a bastion of resistance acting on Iran's behalf whilst we will be targeted.

This, as anyone with half a brain would know is not in our interest. I stated that. That's the point.

I believe Iran and Iraqi sanctions are of the same nature. Nowadays even medicine exports to Iran are subject to ban (harassment). Did Iraq have a medicine ban in the 90-00's ?
 
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