Iraqi PM visits Iraqi Hezbollah and wears their uniform

[Rukarl]

There's no official definition of when a country is 'real', as ultimately they're all artificial.

Iraq by language including dialect, historical region and people are neither part of Persia, Arabia, the Levant or Anatolia. Excluding the Kurds (whom are Iranians to start with), the population is united and identifies with the same identity and refuses separation. This is why despite all the religiously ignited civil wars of the past decade, the country did not separate. There is no such will among anyone.. except for the Kurds. It's not because of Iran's intervention as you like to pull it.

This makes Iraq as 'real' as any other regional entity, such as Egypt, Arabia, Persia etc. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE etc. are another thing to discuss however as they do not share that much differentiation between themselves and the rest of (Saudi) Arabia.

The only difference between an Iraqi from the South and from the Mid-North is the Islamic sect, and that was not relevant till Iran's 1979 revolution sparked a religious wave throughout the region.



The US (not UN) sanctions on Iran were not as heavy as the UN sanctions on Iraq 1991-2003.

And Iran has not been through worse at all, it was not bombarded by the US including all its allies. You didn't get a no-fly zone or cruise missiles throughout the 90's, did not get a ground invasion as last and you did not have your government overthrown.

As for the last, Iran is larger than Iraq with a much larger population. Had Egypt joined us you'd be doomed as well.

You couldn't do much to Saddam's Iraq of 1988 which was the largest at its time, the US and its allies destroyed that completely. Now apply the same level of force they used against Iran instead and consider what would've happened. Then you'd indeed be in a far worse state.

The point here however is something else.

I think what others are trying to tell you is that in the end Iraq has fault lines in which it can not function as a healthy central state. There are too many disunifying factors that does not let it remain a proper state. That being said, respect to the Iraqis. No human deserves to live in fear or misery.

The US did attack our navy and shot down our passenger plane over the Persian Gulf. Didn't they? And do you know why? Because we had destroyed the Iraqi naval power and planned to cut off your oil exports through the Persian Gulf. Other Arab countries helped you export your oil using their tankers, which eventually forced us to respond to that. That started the Oil Tanker war between Iran and the USA during the last year of the Iraq-Iran war.

The Iraqi army grew so fast because both the US and the Soviet Union were arming you against Iran. If it weren't for the Iraq-Iran war, your army would've never become as large as it was. I'm sure you know that better than me. The French gave you Mirage-F1s without you paying for them. We had Iraqi POWs who spoke different Arabic dialects. Egyptians, Somalians, Moroccans, Yemenis. You had help from all Arab countries. Both financially and militarily. Only Syria and Algeria supported Iran while Lebanon and Libya had a neutral policy.

Your country after the war had enormous debts and you couldn't pay back the money for the weapons they had given you. That's why Saddam attacked Kuwait. Saddam thought that Arabs had fooled him and he very well knew that he couldn't pay back for all the support he had received during the war.

We have been under worse sanctions than Iraq in 1990s since 2009. If I'm wrong, correct me. But what kind of sanctions did you get that haven't been imposed on us yet?

To be honest, Iran survived and beat back a modern agressive invasion due to sheer will power and religious nationalism.

 

[Aramagedon]

There's no official definition of when a country is 'real', as ultimately they're all artificial.

Iraq by language including dialect, historical region and people are neither part of Persia, Arabia, the Levant or Anatolia. Excluding the Kurds (whom are Iranians to start with), the population is united and identifies with the same identity and refuses separation. This is why despite all the religiously ignited civil wars of the past decade, the country did not separate. There is no such will among anyone.. except for the Kurds. It's not because of Iran's intervention as you like to pull it.

This makes Iraq as 'real' as any other regional entity, such as Egypt, Arabia, Persia etc. Kuwait, Qatar, UAE etc. are another thing to discuss however as they do not share that much differentiation between themselves and the rest of (Saudi) Arabia.

The only difference between an Iraqi from the South and from the Mid-North is the Islamic sect, and that was not relevant till Iran's 1979 revolution sparked a religious wave throughout the region.



The US (not UN) sanctions on Iran were not as heavy as the UN sanctions on Iraq 1991-2003.

And Iran has not been through worse at all, it was not bombarded by the US including all its allies. You didn't get a no-fly zone or cruise missiles throughout the 90's, did not get a ground invasion as last and you did not have your government overthrown.

As for the last, Iran is larger than Iraq with a much larger population. Had Egypt joined us you'd be doomed as well.

You couldn't do much to Saddam's Iraq of 1988 which was the largest at its time, the US and its allies destroyed that completely. Now apply the same level of force they used against Iran instead and consider what would've happened. Then you'd indeed be in a far worse state.

The point here however is something else.

You had a rabid Sunni dictator which invaded kuwait without American greenlight and that is what you got ...

Say لاحول و لا قوه الا بالله العلی العظیم to cheer up

BTW: you must pay Iran $1000B which you haven't done yet despite your massive oil incomes ...

 

[QWECXZ]

You had a rabid crazy Sunni dictator and that is what you got ...

Say لاحول و لا قوه الا بالله العلی العظیم to cheer up

Saddam was a secular ruler from the Baath party. He promoted Pan-Arabism. Apart from the fact that he was a delirious fool, he tried to do good things for Iraq but his radical Pan-Arabism ideas and his overestimation of his powers got him killed at the end.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

I think what others are trying to tell you is that in the end Iraq has fault lines in which it can not function as a healthy central state. There are too many disunifying factors that does not let it remain a proper state. That being said, respect to the Iraqis. No human deserves to live in fear or misery.

The problem in Iraq is its current political system and constitution which is sect based, that fueled with the regional tensions between the Sunni and Shi'a bloc has sparked in Iraq as it was the ripe place for it due to the post-2003 power vacuum, growth of Al-Qaeda and army disintegration.

The solution he proposes is Joe Biden's idea of splitting the country in 3. Aside from Kurds, that would not benefit the locals. It would turn the south into a Hezbollahi shithole, it would turn the center into another playground for Erdogan and the Kurds would continue their tribal dictatorship.

The above is impossible to start with as the people over there identify with the same identity and refuse seperation.

 

[Rukarl]

You had a rabid crazy Sunni dictator and that is what you got ...

Say لاحول و لا قوه الا بالله العلی العظیم to cheer up

CIA played him very good. Actually they played both Iran and Iraq against each other.

 

[Saddam Hussein]

You had a rabid Sunni dictator which invaded kuwait without American greenlight and that is what you got ...

Say لاحول و لا قوه الا بالله العلی العظیم to cheer up

He's long dead, life goes on

 

[Rukarl]

The problem in Iraq is its current political system and constitution which is sect based, that fueled with the regional tensions between the Sunni and Shi'a bloc has sparked in Iraq as it was the ripe place for it due to the post-2003 power vacuum, growth of Al-Qaeda and army disintegration.

The solution he proposes is Joe Biden's idea of splitting the country in 3. Aside from Kurds, that would not benefit the locals. It would turn the south into a Hezbollahi shithole, it would turn the center into another playground for Erdogan and the Kurds would continue their tribal dictatorship.

The above is impossible to start with as the people over there identify with the same identity and refuse seperation.

That is the point. If all the Iraqis were united for the sake of Iraq they could foil all the attempts of ill wishers. But every group has its own agenda/goals putting Iraq at the 2nd place.

 

[QWECXZ]

CIA played him very good. Actually they played both Iran and Iraq against each other.

Khomeini knew that. He famously said that Saddam's regime will be gone soon and the Americans who helped him fight Iran will topple him. He didn't survive to see his prophecy come true, but he was right nevertheless.

 

[Aramagedon]

Saddam was a secular ruler from the Baath party. He promoted Pan-Arabism. Apart from the fact that he was a delirious fool, he tried to do good things for Iraq but his radical Pan-Arabism ideas and his overestimation of his powers got him killed at the end.

He was a Sunni yankee dictator but he invaded kuwait without their permission and Saudis/Yankees/Israelis planned to destroy Iraq.

 

[Rukarl]

Saddam was a secular ruler from the Baath party. He promoted Pan-Arabism. Apart from the fact that he was a delirious fool, he tried to do good things for Iraq but his radical Pan-Arabism ideas and his overestimation of his powers got him killed at the end.

He didn't overestimate. He just got fooled by the CIA. It was all being played out according to the script. We can say we got fooled too by being trapped in a 8 years war with our neighbour.

The point is, we as the natives of that region got played and manipulated by outsiders. It's a tragedy.

 

[QWECXZ]

He didn't overestimate. He just got fooled by the CIA. It was all being played out according to the script. We can say we got fooled too by being trapped in a 8 years war with our neighbour.

The point is, we as the natives of that region got played and manipulated by outsiders. It's a tragedy.

We had to fight them. We had no other choice.
And he got fooled because he overestimated his power. If you know your limits, you won't get fooled into fighting a war with a very strong neighbor.

 

[Naram_Sin]

He didn't overestimate. He just got fooled by the CIA. It was all being played out according to the script. We can say we got fooled too by being trapped in a 8 years war with our neighbour.

The point is, we as the natives of that region got played and manipulated by outsiders. It's a tragedy.

Tragic indeed.

 

[Rukarl]

We had to fight them. We had no other choice.
And he got fooled because he overestimated his power. If you know your limits, you won't get fooled into fighting a war with a very strong neighbor.

Putting politics aside, i wonder how the Iranian army would have performed if all the executions,arrests and deportations not happened.

 

[xenon54 out]

Thanks in part to NATO.

NATO?

 

[Naofumi]

He promoted Pan-Arabism.

How Pan-Arabism can be disentangled from Islamism?