Iranian Missiles | News and Discussions

[PeeD]

Ok, some facts about the Raad-500

- It is 1-1,5m shorter than the Fateh series and casing is fully composite: No metalic top cap and likely also no metalic end cap.

- Nose angle of RV is significantly steeper, which together with the increased range allows for a rather high terminal and impact velocity. It is hence suited to create deep craters.

-The warhead is also made of carbon fiber filament to make the most weight saving possible. This also benefits terminal RCS.

- Like Dezful and Zolfaghar, it has seperating RV

- Larger fins allow for better maneuvering capability for avoidance of ABM systems when traveling at upper atmospheric layers.

 

[TheImmortal]

Ok, some facts about the Raad-500

- It is 1-1,5m shorter than the Fateh series and casing is fully composite: No metalic top cap and likely also no metalic end cap.

- Nose angle of RV is significantly steeper, which together with the increased range allows for a rather high terminal and impact velocity. It is hence suited to create deep craters.

-The warhead is also made of carbon fiber filament to make the most weight saving possible. This also benefits terminal RCS.

- Like Dezful and Zolfaghar, it has seperating RV

- Larger fins allow for better maneuvering capability for avoidance of ABM systems when traveling at upper atmospheric layers.

What’s the difference between this and F-313. Is this merely a second gen F-313? F-313 was also composite body as well.

 

[VEVAK]

What’s the difference between this and F-313. Is this merely a second gen F-313? F-313 was also composite body as well.

it's smaller, lighter & cheaper so what else would you want?

 

[Navigator]

What’s the difference between this and F-313. Is this merely a second gen F-313? F-313 was also composite body as well.

F-313 was only with composite body of missile itself, Raad-500 get new engine also made from composite materials + separable guided warhead. Raad-500 generally looks like a faster rocket than the Fateh family.

 

[Philosopher]

And it is cheaper and easier to manufacture than Fateh-313. I was under the impression that fateh-313 production line was probably stopped after Zolfiqar was made, and same for zolfiqar when Dezfoul was made. This new Raad-500 however is quite an important development because I see it replacing:

1) All Fateh-110s
2) Fateh-313
3) Zelzal family
4) Maybe even replace Khalife Fars if it can be used against ships?

 

[PeeD]

What’s the difference between this and F-313. Is this merely a second gen F-313? F-313 was also composite body as well.

Of importance is to have small MaRVs that have smaller RCS and can maneuver better.

Then the design of the F-313 was still more complex with end caps and a composite matrix instead of a pure filament design. It seems Iran is now able to produce sufficiently high tensile strength carbon fiber, so that a matrix layout is not needed anymore.

So you now basically have a design that can be produced more easily. Key is a very good design (at the limits) and economic carbon fiber supply of sufficient quality.

20 years after the first Fateh, the fruit is that Iran is now able to optimize it in this way.

In should now be the world best TBM in terms of economy -- effect and technology (some).

 

[Philosopher]

@PeeD

How far do you think Iran is from the following technologies:
1- Hypersonic glide vehicle
2- Hypersonic cruise missiles like zircon?

Any projects to develop these as far as you know?

 

[VEVAK]

Of importance is to have small MaRVs that have smaller RCS and can maneuver better.

Then the design of the F-313 was still more complex with end caps and a composite matrix instead of a pure filament design. It seems Iran is now able to produce sufficiently high tensile strength carbon fiber, so that a matrix layout is not needed anymore.

So you now basically have a design that can be produced more easily. Key is a very good design (at the limits) and economic carbon fiber supply of sufficient quality.

20 years after the first Fateh, the fruit is that Iran is now able to optimize it in this way.

In should now be the world best TBM in terms of economy -- effect and technology (some).

And except of the guidance an control pkg most of the missile can be produced at smaller facilities all across Iran with a fraction number of infrastructural requirements backing them for parts and materials!

Eventually the Raad-500 will be the fastest produced Iranian TBM!

Mass producing a composite booster for a lighter low cost mid range solid fuel boosters should be next on the list!

 

[PeeD]

@PeeD

How far do you think Iran is from the following technologies:
1- Hypersonic glide vehicle
2- Hypersonic cruise missiles like zircon?

Any projects to develop these as far as you know?

It's a thermal material science and cost issue for Iran.
When will THAAD, Arrow-3 and SM-3 become such a hurdle that hypersonic cruise is felt necessary?

At the moment Irans lower spectrum "hypersonics" such as the Dezful are already there.
Longer range hypersonics, where thermal management becomes really tricky,... well if threats require them, we will see them in future.

 

[ashool]

Iran is NOT a capitalistic country? Really? Tell me what economic model does it run? Communism? Libertarian-ism? Lol Iran is a Mafia-istic country with socialism mixed in.

While they don’t have a massive military industrial complex that has to show profits every quarter (like the US) they certainly do NOT give things at cost to the military. That is the dumbest statement I have ever heard. Military gets funded by government and they Award contracts to a whatever firm(s) can demonstrate a product they want. That is why a lot of projects you see at military fairs or exhibitions in Iran NEVER move to mass production. The military branches simply do not want or can’t spend the money the company is asking for.

Iranian military firms def do try to make a profit because at the end of the day, that missile engineer or that missile technician is NOT there working for free. He could easily leave and go work at a military company anywhere else in the world. They get paid VERY WELL. In fact, Iran’s military cyber warfare hackers are making well over 6 figures in USD salary a year, which in Iran is an HANDSOME salary.

A Fateh-110 to be built could require parts from 10 or 100 different companies of which some are not government owned and merely government LINKED (big difference). And those companies are certainly not
giving things at cost to Iran or else they wouldn’t exist.

Tomorrow @VEVAK will tell everyone when Iran buys one F-110 it gets one free

A tomahawk cruise missile cost 1.4M, but in a few weeks You will say a F-110 only cost the same as nooneh sangak

lol pinokio speaks.oh your beloved us terrorist animals injured in sepah attacks became 100 right now ur nose must became 2 meter go to mr bensaw to cut it for you

 

[PeeD]

Time for some math:

Anyone wondered if it is worth it to go for a separating RV on the Raad-500, Zolfaghar and Dezful instead to do it like the Fateh, Iskander, LORA, N- and S- Korean "Iskanders" and all other Iskander like systems like China and Ukraine?

RCS and smaller size are benefits for a MaRV solution but what about impact energy when loosing the mass of the booster?

Well I did some simple kinetic energy calculations:

When Iran mastered economic production of high thermal and mechanical strength carbon-carbon composite nose tips, it became possible to build the Zolfaghar missile.
Same thing for the faster Dezful, which can use the same tip because its reduced weight thermobaric warhead.

It can be estimated that the RVs of both impact at mach 3-3,5.

My estimate for the Fateh series is mach 2,5 due to higher body friction during the whole pseudo ballistic flight.

Now we have the Raad-500: It also uses the C-C-C nosetip of the Zolfaghar and Dezful but it's RV nose angle is pointier indicating the goal of highest possible impact speed/energy.
Hence the Raad-500 can be described as a high velocity missile of "just" 500km but with the impact speed/energy of the 1000km range Dezful.

Now to the numbers:
A Fateh-110D impacting at mach 2,5 with the whole burnt out missile (est. 1300kg) has about the same impact energy as a Raad-500 MaRV (without booster) impacting at mach 3,5.

So the choice is to go for a MaRV makes best sense if you are able to realize it technically. Iran is and only benefits from it: Less friction, less RCS, smaller physical size, more agile maneuvering capability, lower actuator/fin loads, higher impact speed and in many cases even impact energy.

With the Raad-500 casing and the other technologies, we will soon see a system beyond Dezful (just northern Israel), 1300km should become possible.

 

[Philosopher]

Yes, either this year or February next year we will 100% see the next gen version beyond Dezfoul with Israel reaching range. Incredible what Iran has done with this Fateh family.
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Carbon filament skin is visible here:

 

[AmirPatriot]

With the Raad-500 casing and the other technologies, we will soon see a system beyond Dezful (just northern Israel), 1300km should become possible.

If you had told me 10 years ago that the Fateh-110 would develop into a 1300km range quasi-MRBM I would have said you are crazy.

But the improvements keep on coming. It would seem Dezful still lacks some of the technologies that even Raad-500 has. Not only is Raad-500 shorter, I've seen some rough measurements of its diameter showing it to be ~50 cm... Dezful is at least 68 cm.

 

[Sineva]

Yes,its an incredibly impressive achievement by any standards,even more so when one realises that it was based on an unguided artillery rocket,the zelzal!.Probably the most impressive thing tho was its sheer growth potential,where a short ranged missile was ultimately extended to over 3 times its original range!.This is almost unbelievable but yet its true and this was because the iranians realised that precision guidance offered more than just big improvements in accuracy it also offered potentially big improvements in extending range as well.
It will be very interesting indeed to see what the next generation of iranian all composite airframe missiles will achieve.

 

[Sina-1]

Time for some math:

Anyone wondered if it is worth it to go for a separating RV on the Raad-500, Zolfaghar and Dezful instead to do it like the Fateh, Iskander, LORA, N- and S- Korean "Iskanders" and all other Iskander like systems like China and Ukraine?

RCS and smaller size are benefits for a MaRV solution but what about impact energy when loosing the mass of the booster?

Well I did some simple kinetic energy calculations:

When Iran mastered economic production of high thermal and mechanical strength carbon-carbon composite nose tips, it became possible to build the Zolfaghar missile.
Same thing for the faster Dezful, which can use the same tip because its reduced weight thermobaric warhead.

It can be estimated that the RVs of both impact at mach 3-3,5.

My estimate for the Fateh series is mach 2,5 due to higher body friction during the whole pseudo ballistic flight.

Now we have the Raad-500: It also uses the C-C-C nosetip of the Zolfaghar and Dezful but it's RV nose angle is pointier indicating the goal of highest possible impact speed/energy.
Hence the Raad-500 can be described as a high velocity missile of "just" 500km but with the impact speed/energy of the 1000km range Dezful.

Now to the numbers:
A Fateh-110D impacting at mach 2,5 with the whole burnt out missile (est. 1300kg) has about the same impact energy as a Raad-500 MaRV (without booster) impacting at mach 3,5.

So the choice is to go for a MaRV makes best sense if you are able to realize it technically. Iran is and only benefits from it: Less friction, less RCS, smaller physical size, more agile maneuvering capability, lower actuator/fin loads, higher impact speed and in many cases even impact energy.

With the Raad-500 casing and the other technologies, we will soon see a system beyond Dezful (just northern Israel), 1300km should become possible.

Awesome analysis as always! You’ve mentioned the production method to be much rationalized as well, compared to dezful. What potential strategic importance does the production have for Iran’s allies? Footprint of production site and logistics of critical components?