Introducing - JF-17 Thunder Block - II

[muhammadali233]

Guys see how he avoid my questions....
He did't know the simple things and challeniging ex service man like @Bilal Khan 777 sahib.

was he court martialed ?If not then please write retired or rtd for short,i once made that mistake and regretted it later.

 

[muhammadali233]

Nonsense

well i don't want to sound to hasty but do you belong from army or an army family?Ask them,ex is used officially in Pakistan for those who are court martial-ed and rtd for those who completed their services.Ex is used degradation for honour.Avoid it,anyways I am out.
Nonsense.

 

[nangyale]

I just want to to know who he is and why is doing all this...spreading hatered for PAF

this huy is chicken out from here. He know nothing just reading some stuff on net and imagine it.
Just don't answer such idiots @Bilal Khan 777 because of such fellows like @Bratva etc we already loose many good members like Safriz aka @Ziras @RazPaK @OverLoad many others.
This forum is run by Ahsan Faooqui as business because of that Asim left Elmo left many other notable members.
Webmaster should change forum name to INTL defense why fooling us to by naming it Defence.PK

@MastanKhan
you will find me everywhere...stop this nonsense or face me

You seem to know a lot about this forum, especially for some one who only joined yesterday.

Forgive my intervention in your challenge to @MastanKhan but sometimes people make new accounts so that they can let go of any civility and vent their anger at something/someone that they are not happy with.
For this reason certain members on this forum don't entertain newbies that often.

 

[Djinn]

I just want to to know who he is and why is doing all this...spreading hatered for PAF

this huy is chicken out from here. He know nothing just reading some stuff on net and imagine it.
Just don't answer such idiots @Bilal Khan 777 because of such fellows like @Bratva etc we already loose many good members like Safriz aka @Ziras @RazPaK @OverLoad many others.
This forum is run by Ahsan Faooqui as business because of that Asim left Elmo left many other notable members.
Webmaster should change forum name to INTL defense why fooling us to by naming it Defence.PK

@MastanKhan
you will find me everywhere...stop this nonsense or face me

Every one is entitled to their opinion and so is Mr Mastan.......You have no right to target him personally just because you don't approve of his opinion..... As for some people leaving the forum, people come and go all the time, that's the way life is. PAF has made poor decisions in the past and F-16's are a testament to this fact, wanting to pawn national interests for a few jets is outright insane and lastly it's no PTV where people cant dare to utter a word against Fauj and Hakoomat, its a forum which represents divergent opinions.

 

[Arsalan]

We already can measure RCSs, have a EWTTR, and other precision setups.

How precise would you call it. They are mostly based on computer works only, CGIs being analyzed. Not like actual models are being subjected to real testing etc. Dont know all the details but from what little i know i would say that we need to build on that and improve it further to meet the needs of coming time. Frankly, i don not think that JF17 as we see today will be last of our indigenous projects.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

I stated it would take around 10 years +++ to integrate. And that is what has happened----. So your intellectual self sir----instead of accepting acknowledgment from naysayers for my 10 years old comments---I should accept what!!!!

And my knowing of the EW does not mean diddly----. If you had learnt to understand the americans---knowing itsy bitsy things about ew suite would have meant nothing---because they would have been presented on the platter to you.

Remember---it is not about me---it is about the failures and successes of the paf on the air force threads---. And uptil now---it is all failures as far as one can look back.

" MATURITY " is by the way a pakistani terminology-----and me being away for 34 years and hardly knowing any pakistanis in the U S and barely travelled back home 3 time---I literally have ' NO CONCEPT " of this word anymore-----there is a vague feeling somewhere---but that is it.



Hi,

And for those very reason---WE would like to bring the heirarchy of the paf to an INQUISITION CHAMBER---and administer the TRUTH SERUM---.

MK you can continue your online inquisition it also means didly and jack squat.

You have no idea what you are talking about, only conjecture, broad generalisations and "that officer i met in USA"
Just because some of you are in the US you feel you are better than the ones in Pakistan? You are of sad existence and nothing better to do, what most will call narcism and self glory.

I will expend my energies elsewhere.

To all gents, please stay on topic, nobody needs to defend my honour I am able to do that myself.

Admins kindly delete all off-topic rambling and leave the OPS and Tech discussion on this forum only.

BR

 

[Arsalan]

For the record, I have no access whatsoever, only some experience and some analytical skills which are unlike your negative assessment of everything Pakistani. Yes, you can stay in the US and claim to know all of the US, but as someone commented, it is the diaspora that has failed us, but moving to greener pastures, and easy for you to sit on your patio chair and drink your MGD, and call us traitors.

BR

\
Sorry sir but i cant agree with that part. You two may have some differences, he may be speaking bad about PAF officials but it is not like he is against anything and everything Pakistani. Trust me, i have been on this forum witih for for considerably long time. There are a few objections, a few fingers being pointed in wrong directions but it is not like all of them are in wrong directions. Some things are bitter truths and others a comments made out of anger. You with all your experience will understand that.

Again, i would request you and @MastanKhan to stop getting at each others throats at every possibility. It is the forum and the discussion that is suffering.

in short, suspicion or doubts sown be others frankly may not have any cure but sensible analysis can be done. And blaming PAF for trying to hide its capabilities and secrets is I think unfair, every one tries to do this and this is a sound practice as well.

Not anymore and surely not the way we are trying to do it.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

\
Sorry sir but i cant agree with that part. You two may have some differences, he may be speaking bad about PAF officials but it is not like he is against anything and everything Pakistani. Trust me, i have been on this forum witih for for considerably long time. There are a few objections, a few fingers being pointed in wrong directions but it is not like all of them are in wrong directions. Some things are bitter truths and others a comments made out of anger. You with all your experience will understand that.

Again, i would request you and @MastanKhan to stop getting at each others throats at every possibility. It is the forum and the discussion that is suffering.


Not anymore and surely not the way we are trying to do it.

The criticism of PAF high brass is without merit, proof, and based on flawed analysis and conjecture. You maybe okay with that, but some of us can't handle horse manure so easily.

If there was discussion we will take part. If people of the ilk of MK ask questions we will entertain that, however, broad stroke generalisation of how we have failed the nation and how everything is a missed opportunity and how we should be put through inquisition and raked through coals will not be accepted, let alone being openly stated by non-specialists and mere tabloid journalist and used car salesmen type characters.

Sorry, this remains to be my opinion. I will always defend the honour of PAF and my fellow officers. While we have made mistakes, and we openly admit them, we don't need to be put through inquisition by outsiders who chose to abandon their country and live the high life and swear allegiance to some other country, and now sit on online forums and act like they are some decision authority who understand all extranalities of every issue.

 

[Paksanity]

The criticism of PAF high brass is without merit, proof, and based on flawed analysis and conjecture. You maybe okay with that, but some of us can't handle horse manure so easily.

If there was discussion we will take part. If people of the ilk of MK ask questions we will entertain that, however, broad stroke generalisation of how we have failed the nation and how everything is a missed opportunity and how we should be put through inquisition and raked through coals will not be accepted, let alone being openly stated by non-specialists and mere tabloid journalist and used car salesmen type characters.

Sorry, this remains to be my opinion. I will always defend the honour of PAF and my fellow officers. While we have made mistakes, and we openly admit them, we don't need to be put through inquisition by outsiders who chose to abandon their country and live the high life and swear allegiance to some other country, and now sit on online forums and act like they are some decision authority who understand all extranalities of every issue.

 

[Arsalan]

The criticism of PAF high brass is without merit, proof, and based on flawed analysis and conjecture. You maybe okay with that, but some of us can't handle horse manure so easily.

If there was discussion we will take part. If people of the ilk of MK ask questions we will entertain that, however, broad stroke generalisation of how we have failed the nation and how everything is a missed opportunity and how we should be put through inquisition and raked through coals will not be accepted, let alone being openly stated by non-specialists and mere tabloid journalist and used car salesmen type characters.

Sorry, this remains to be my opinion. I will always defend the honour of PAF and my fellow officers. While we have made mistakes, and we openly admit them, we don't need to be put through inquisition by outsiders who chose to abandon their country and live the high life and swear allegiance to some other country, and now sit on online forums and act like they are some decision authority who understand all extranalities of every issue.

I am not OK with that sir but it is just like i am not OK with criticism of ANYONE without merit, proof, and based on flawed analysis and conjecture.

I just want to say that it is not that everything he says is totally wrong, there is some truth to it as well and we all know it. On the other hand, much of it is exaggeration because of that sense of disappointment and anger and that is wrong on his part and i always ask him to stop that. Just want you two to realize that at the end of the day, most of us are working toward the same end goal!!

Here is a post i will like you to go through, PLEASE and request you to focus some energy in this thread. A lot is being challenged and your expertise can be of great help.
https://defence.pk/threads/discussion-thunder-and-tejas.437724/page-2#post-8436438

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

View attachment 315607

This made my day. Victor Mike Tango.

I am not OK with that sir but it is just like i am not OK with criticism of ANYONE without merit, proof, and based on flawed analysis and conjecture.

I just want to say that it is not that everything he says is totally wrong, there is some truth to it as well and we all know it. On the other hand, much of it is exaggeration because of that sense of disappointment and anger and that is wrong on his part and i always ask him to stop that. Just want you two to realize that at the end of the day, most of us are working toward the same end goal!!

Here is a post i will like you to go through, PLEASE and request you to focus some energy in this thread. A lot is being challenged and your expertise can be of great help.
https://defence.pk/threads/discussion-thunder-and-tejas.437724/page-2#post-8436438

Oscar is enough to handle all the buggers there.

 

[Arsalan]

This made my day. Victor Mike Tango.



Oscar is enough to handle all the buggers there.

Sir it will get too hectic in no time. Need all the help we can get. Whenever it is possible. At least do keep visiting the thread and keep sharing whatever little details you can find time for.

 

[ali_raza]

This made my day. Victor Mike Tango.



Oscar is enough to handle all the buggers there.

sir plz i just want to ask u why u given me negative rating?did I mention any names or PAF. i had some bad experiences in pakistan so i shared that with MK.and that is truth.even it hurts.we expats have more love for pakistan then a normal pakistani i can chalange u that.so that is the reason people like MK and me get hurt more.cos we all are embassy's Staf for free.we plead pakistan at all levels.plz dont be harsh and try to understand from our pov

 

[volatile]

Alas defence.pk is turning out to be no show or no country for old men .People critizing here is not personnel but facts ,to point out few .

1. F16 fiasco what it has given us and in return what we gave back ? ( i think if we discussed this thread will be derailed)
2. F17 today where it is and why it is ,Is it time already over ? As you plan you plan future not Past still 1970 fighter is beating it down in many areas .regarding LCA comparison they are egoistic and morons we are better men than them.
3. J10 history came again and again to haunt us and will do so in coming days .Admired Mushy for only one thing Karakoram Eagle deal

It looked like quite personnel for some of the senior members rather than professional ,every one has its opinion and it should be respected in mutual ways .Because of less toleration and not making an arguments win/win we are losing our critics (Some will say members will come and go) MY WAY OR HIGHWAY but difference of opinion always lead to new avenues so how this forum will be based in coming days will be based on actions,ratings and comments from all members . F16 /F17 criticism in my point of view is quite correct simply on the basis of political no technicalities .F16 is a tool to control Foreign policy it has damaged us more than benefits .

1. Kargil Episode (Non BVR) we were sending our pilots to Kamikaze missions even without any benefits .
2. Today all F16`s will be grounded if US wants it (How and when i dont want to go)
3. F17 development as well as dual seater non availability (Those who tool that decision should be held on there judgements)
4. If today new platforms are available we insist on sticking in the past .

I will share one secret why we do bad as nation because we want dictatorship even in our arguments no resistance and we will never hear the guy who is opposing us ,World is moving to Win/Win arguments not Win/Lose argument .Are we Winning ?

 

[araz]

Alas defence.pk is turning out to be no show or no country for old men .People critizing here is not personnel but facts ,to point out few .

1. F16 fiasco what it has given us and in return what we gave back ? ( i think if we discussed this thread will be derailed)
2. F17 today where it is and why it is ,Is it time already over ? As you plan you plan future not Past still 1970 fighter is beating it down in many areas .regarding LCA comparison they are egoistic and morons we are better men than them.
3. J10 history came again and again to haunt us and will do so in coming days .Admired Mushy for only one thing Karakoram Eagle deal

It looked like quite personnel for some of the senior members rather than professional ,every one has its opinion and it should be respected in mutual ways .Because of less toleration and not making an arguments win/win we are losing our critics (Some will say members will come and go) MY WAY OR HIGHWAY but difference of opinion always lead to new avenues so how this forum will be based in coming days will be based on actions,ratings and comments from all members . F16 /F17 criticism in my point of view is quite correct simply on the basis of political no technicalities .F16 is a tool to control Foreign policy it has damaged us more than benefits .

1. Kargil Episode (Non BVR) we were sending our pilots to Kamikaze missions even without any benefits .
2. Today all F16`s will be grounded if US wants it (How and when i dont want to go)
3. F17 development as well as dual seater non availability (Those who tool that decision should be held on there judgements)
4. If today new platforms are available we insist on sticking in the past .

I will share one secret why we do bad as nation because we want dictatorship even in our arguments no resistance and we will never hear the guy who is opposing us ,World is moving to Win/Win arguments not Win/Lose argument .Are we Winning ?

The problem with a post like yours with multiple facets and conjectures is it becomes difficult to answer. Please post your suppositions in the relevant sections, ie F16 saga in F16 section and so on and so forth and then we can talk. The bottom line with most folks is that people think that money grows on trees and we can conjure up billions at the slight of a hand and the political governments are always at the beck and call of the armed forces.Secondly people have no concept of the problems with inducting multiple platforms and the time and costs involved. Thirdly you guys think that as soon as we request something it will be available to you without realizing that key note technology is a weapon in its own rights and the blackmail associated with its provision is a fact that you guys have no clue about.
For the AF sections please segregate your post into relevant sections and tag me and I will respond to you. I must say that if you are just here to have a rant then dont bother but if you want to learn then follow instructions.
A

When nobody "takes" your comments on this board, then maybe your comments don't have traction here. If you are so mature as you claim, then start getting the hint.

I shall not comment your insinuation yet again. You have the right of your opinion, just like me.

For the record, I have no access whatsoever, only some experience and some analytical skills which are unlike your negative assessment of everything Pakistani. Yes, you can stay in the US and claim to know all of the US, but as someone commented, it is the diaspora that has failed us, but moving to greener pastures, and easy for you to sit on your patio chair and drink your MGD, and call us traitors.

BR

As suggested before please push the ignore button and move on. If people could have been won over by debates, logic and facts there would not have been a single nonmuslim left in Mecca after the teachings of Rasool Allah SAW. Guidance is a gift and and knowledge is an assett. Use your assetts to the best of their advantage rather than futile debates.
Regards