Interceptor spot on, though without blast: DRDO

[Omega007]

Even s-400 has pesa I think.
But chinese have modified the s-300 to a great degree and the testament to that is the contract its clone won in turkey defeating american and russian systems.


On indian bmd vs s-300 we lack the mobitity and flexibility of s-300 and don't forget russians have way better radars than us(still).

Oh yeah,and what were the systems offered by other competing countries which The Chinese are claiming their HQ 9 won against??Lets take a look now,shall we??

1.The Russians were offering their S 300PMU dating back from around 1978 or 79!!Quite obviously they were eliminated.

2.Now lets take a look at the Americans who came at third.Their Raytheon and Lockheed Martin offered their Patriot Advanced Capability 3.Again a dated design with a somewhat dubious reputation even against ancient Iraqi Scud Bs.

3.Now lets come to the Europeans who came out second in the competition.Their Eurosam offered its Aster 30.It's a very capable and lightweight system with an unexpectedly higher range for its weight,but still it has shortest range and maximum altitude (at 120 km and ~20 km respectively) among the 4 competing systems.And the Turkish were specifically looking for a long range air defence system.
Beside,just like any other European systems,they are the costliest.

Now coming to the Chinese HQ 9 option,well it's more modern compared to what the Russians and Americans were offering.
According to the reports,the Chinese HQ 9 umderbidded the next lowest bidder (presumably the American PAC 3) by at least over half a billion to a billion dollar!!Now do the math.

Besides,the Chinese can offer a much more generous ToT than the others.
All these reasons made sure the Chinese to win the competition.

But world is not simply black and white,there is also a grey area in between.The Chinese winning the competition doesn't automatically transform the HQ 9 into a better missile defence system than the latest Russian or American or European systems!!They won due to a variety of reasons;but being the best was certainly not one of them.

And coming to upgrading or modifying the S 300 or any other system for that matter........modification can only get you that far.No matter how much you modify for example a S 300PMU2 missile round you can not increase its target interception altitude to 150 km or increase its speed to ~Mach 6 from Mach 4.Not without drastic design changes,which will turn it into a system altogether,which means you have to again rigorously test launch it over the years and you have to rework on its target interception algorithms - something that would be hardly economical.


Again,it's not true that Indian BMD system can not compete the Russian ones in terms of mobility.Why not??After all the missil launchers are mounted on Tatra or Tata heavy-duty trailers,so mobility shouldn't be that big a problem.

And coming to the radars,it's debatable when it comes to ground based AESA radars (and even AEW&CS ones as well),especially after this year's Defexpo where LRDE showcased variety of its latest ground based radars.

 

[Omega007]

Just checked.
Even radars have an ability to track only 200-300 km targets.
400 km for s-400 but max height of interception is just 30 km.

What are the specs of radar of bmd?anyone?

Imho s-systems are good for uav's and aircrafts,they have limited/no abm role

That's not true as @Dillinger has already told.By the way,given by the close proximity of our potential enemies, what we need the most for setting up an effective BMD system is a series of missile launch early warning satellites on the LEO.

By the way @Dillinger,in any case are you happen to be a Tachyon The Fringe gamer??I ask due to your user name.

 

[Srinivas]

another 'partial success' lol

partial success is indian word for failure

The ABM systems tend to hit the incoming missiles head on with out any blast, this will make the missile disintegrate with out any atomic or biological blasts. The area and environment will be safe with Kinetic kill.

The warheads do not detonate when they are hit by ABM. Reason why most of the countries prefer kinetic kill rather than blasting the ABM near to incoming enemy missile.

Congrats DRDO and other mile stone.

 

[Dillinger]

That's not true as @Dillinger has already told.By the way,given by the close proximity of our potential enemies, what we need the most for setting up an effective BMD system is a series of missile launch early warning satellites on the LEO.

By the way @Dillinger,in any case are you happen to be a Tachyon The Fringe gamer??I ask due to your user name.

Nope. Dillinger was just my favorite mobster, had class.

Yes, a localized IMEWS like system would be required much like we opted for our own regional GPS.

 

[Omega007]

Nope. Dillinger was just my favorite mobster, had class.

Yes, a localized IMEWS like system would be required much like we opted for our own regional GPS.

I see,never heard of him.Now I've to do some research about that man.

 

[Dillinger]

I see,never heard of him.Now I've to do some research about that man.

Public Enemies.

 

[Arun666]

The radar on the BMD is a green pine derivative, "swordfish". With a maximum detection range of a 700-800Km and an altitude cap that is far higher than anything on the S series (substantiated data so far shows that it can successfully provide targeting data to interceptor vehicle for crossing off an inbound at an altitude of 80km). Statements by the Israelis outline an ability to detect a target with a frontal RCS which mimics that of a cricket ball out to a very considerable distance. But this superior performance is the result of a large and arguably low-mobility sensor.

The BMD needs a mobile high powered X-band precision targeting radar system which is mobile and operates in conjunction with the Swordfish, that we do not have yet.

I am novice in defense matters,but i need to ask you,if we don't have X-band precision radar system,how did we manage to test an interceptor to intercept target above 120KM??

 

[Omega007]

Public Enemies.

Oh that movie!!

 

[Dillinger]

I am novice in defense matters,but i need to ask you,if we don't have X-band precision radar system,how did we manage to test an interceptor to intercept target above 120KM??

We don't need said system for a test, it is required by an operational BMD since the Swordfish can't be lugged about all over India nor can it be utilized to cover every inch of the AO. Otherwise the LRTR is more than capable of tracking targets up to extreme altitudes, that has never been the problem.

Think of it as the requirement of a battery level radar which works in conjunction with a central acquisition radar for extremely precise targeting, not that the LRTR has any issues with accuracy, even the original and dated green pine (from which the LRTR was derived) was known for its extreme accuracy in guiding interceptors.

At the end of the day the BMD cannot operate just on the LRTRs, it needs AEW&C assets and mobile ground based assets which can be lugged about by our aerial transports. Even better if a satellite based component is added to the mix.

 

[Arun666]

We don't need said system for a test, it is required by an operational BMD since the Swordfish can't be lugged about all over India nor can it be utilized to cover every inch of the AO. Otherwise the LRTR is more than capable of tracking targets up to extreme altitudes, that has never been the problem.

Think of it as the requirement of a battery level radar which works in conjunction with a central acquisition radar for extremely precise targeting, not that the LRTR has any issues with accuracy, even the original and dated green pine (from which the LRTR was derived) was known for its extreme accuracy in guiding interceptors.

At the end of the day the BMD cannot operate just on the LRTRs, it needs AEW&C assets and mobile ground based assets which can be lugged about by our aerial transports. Even better if a satellite based component is added to the mix.

Thanks

 

[Dillinger]

@Arun666 At the end of the day, interceptor vehicles are only one component of a BMD. And trust me the interceptors are the cheaper part albeit quite complex in their own right. The expensive and tricky bit is establishing a proper early warning and tracking system.

Furthermore, no BMD will protect us from the ground launched cruise missiles and LACMs which might come our way. That requires an ability to track over land and over sea CMs (which requires persistent AEW&C cover from platforms which have sufficient operational availability and ETOS) and a more distributed plus mobile interception system package (interceptors which are canister contained and carried around on vehicles with adequate mobility).

*ETOS- estimated time on station.
*LACM- land attack cruise missile

 

[Arun666]

@Arun666 At the end of the day, interceptor vehicles are only one component of a BMD. Ans trust me the interceptors are the cheaper part albeit quite complex in their own right. The expensive and tricky bit is establishing a proper early warning and tracking system.

Furthermore, no BMD will protect us from the ground launched cruise missiles and LACMs which might come our way. That requires an ability to track over land and over sea CMs (which requires persistent AEW&C cover from platforms which have sufficient operational availability and ETOS) and a more distributed plus mobile interception system package (interceptors which are canister contained and carried around on vehicles with adequate mobility).

*ETOS- estimated time on station.
*LACM- land attack cruise missile

That means we are quite a long way away from establishing a credible BMD,at least we or on the right track,thanks you cleared a lot of doubts for me..

@Arun666 At the end of the day, interceptor vehicles are only one component of a BMD. And trust me the interceptors are the cheaper part albeit quite complex in their own right. The expensive and tricky bit is establishing a proper early warning and tracking system.

Furthermore, no BMD will protect us from the ground launched cruise missiles and LACMs which might come our way. That requires an ability to track over land and over sea CMs (which requires persistent AEW&C cover from platforms which have sufficient operational availability and ETOS) and a more distributed plus mobile interception system package (interceptors which are canister contained and carried around on vehicles with adequate mobility).

*ETOS- estimated time on station.
*LACM- land attack cruise missile

If you don't mind me asking,how do you know all of this stuff,are you a professional??

 

[Dillinger]

That means we are quite a long way from establishing a credible BMD,at least we or on the right track,thanks you cleared a lot of doubts for me..

If we are willing to pay the price in sweat, effort and coin then we can accomplish the setting up of a credible BMD in a decade. Canister contained projectiles are not a challenge, nor are the AEW&C assets, with enough of a push even a satellite component can be realized- its not too far from our grasp in terms of the technical base in the country and our upcoming capabilities.

The real issue lies in the fact that we do not have a policy driven push for a BMD or the associated capabilities, DRDO is still running it as an internal project without any real guidance from the executive or the MoD beyond what potential impact a test would have on the atmosphere in the subcontinent.

Till the executive and the MoD do not bring the stakeholders on board, construct a cogent policy on how it will be used, where it will stand in context of our nuclear weapons doctrine (which btw in itself is still rather opaque AND amorphous) and formulate a command structure, till then we will remain a long way off.

That means we are quite a long way away from establishing a credible BMD,at least we or on the right track,thanks you cleared a lot of doubts for me..


If you don't mind me asking,how do you know all of this stuff,are you a professional??

Not even remotely, I am a simple munshi who has too much time to waste.

 

[OrionHunter]

The system fail, it fail to destroy the coming missile nothing more to it. Partial success is a code name for failure.

Were you born an imbecile? The missile did not have an HE warhead to explode. It was to test the on-board IR seeker. And for your information, IR seekers are not meant to explode! They are part of the guidance system.

So don't start getting premature orgasms just yet.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

India’s ambitious mission on Sunday to intercept an “enemy” ballistic missile at a altitude of 120 km seems to have achieved only partial success. While the missile technologists of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) say the interception did take place and the mission met its “important objectives,” they concede that the warhead in the interceptor missile, which took off from the Wheeler Island, did not explode.

Avinash Chander, Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister, said: “The infrared (IR) seeker in the interceptor could track the target, but we have not exploded the target. The target was not to be exploded.”

Asked if the mission was only “partially successful,” Mr. Chander, architect of India’s Agni series of missiles, said, “The mission’s main objective was to track the target missile. We wanted to see the performance of the IR seeker. The warhead in the interceptor missile was not meant to be exploded in this mission. Since we did not fire the warhead, the debris did not fall.”

Another DRDO missile technologist said: “We have recorded the interception.”

Asked whether “a hit-to-kill” took place in the mission as it did in the previous six other interceptor flights from the Wheeler Island, he said: “We have to work out the missed distance between the target missile and the interceptor. Based on that, the hit-to-kill would take place. We are not able to say right now whether the hit-to-kill took place.”

Yet another scientist said, “Whether the target missile was destroyed or not, I cannot say right now.”

The DRDO was looking forward to this mission because it was “challenging” and “complex.” Of the DRDO’s seven interceptor missions, six were successful. The interceptions had taken place either in the endo-atmosphere (below 50 km) or in the exo-atmosphere (between 50 km and 80 km). But this mission was a different ball game because the interception was to be done at 120 km, providing very little time for the interceptor to blast off and waylay the attacker. So the motors in the interceptor called the Prithvi Defence Vehicle (PDV) and the target missile were specially developed. The target missile lifted off a ship in the Bay of Bengal, off Odisha at 9.07 a.m. It was a two-stage missile, “mimicking a hostile ballistic missile approaching from more than 2,000 km away,” a DRDO press release said.

In an automated operation, radar-based systems on the Wheeler Island and in Paradip, Puri and Cuttack detected and tracked the “enemy” missile. The computer network, with the help of data from the radars, predicted its trajectory. The single-stage PDV interceptor took off two-and-a-half minutes later.

The PDV, guided by the highly accurate inertial navigation system and supported by a redundant micro-navigation system, moved towards the point of interception. Once the PDV crossed the atmosphere, its heat shield domes covering the IR and radio frequency (RF) seekers fell off. So the two seeker domes opened to look at the incoming missile’s location. With the help of inertial guidance and the IR seeker, the PDV moved for the interception. “The mission was completed and the interception parameters were achieved,” the press release said.

G. Satheesh Reddy, Director, Research Centre, Imarat , a DRDO missile facility in Hyderabad, said the mission featured several new technologies. Both the missiles had new, powerful motors. The heat shield, covering the IR and RF seekers, ejected for the first time. The seekers worked well. “This is the first time that an imaging seeker has been used for the air defence vehicle. The imaging seeker could see the incoming missile, track it and guide the interceptor towards the target.” The RCI team made the seekers and the inertial navigation and guidance system, Mr. Reddy said.

Adalat Ali was the Programme Director and Y. Sreenivasa Rao, Project Director.

Interceptor spot on, though without blast: DRDO - The Hindu

DRDO Zindabad!