INS Kamorta vs TCG Heybeliada

[IND151]

Good match but while p-28 is more tilted to a antisubmarine role the Heybeliada is a more balanced ship with surface to surface warfare weaponry too.
1. Heybeliada carries anti ship missiles(harpoon) the p-28 does not(although club is mentioned in some cases,the lack of deck VLS proves otherwise).
2.Heybeliada carries only light weight mk46 torpedoes while p-28 carries NSTL light weight torpedo+sea hake or black shark heavy heavy weight torpedo or varunastra.
3.For cueing the heavy weight torpedo a more powerfull and bigger sonar is need HUMSA NG and it also carries a towed array sonar from atlas eletronik but presence of a towed sonar suite in Heybeliada is not clear.
4.Kamorta also carries RBU-6000 anti submarine rockets and ak-630 CIWS while Heybeliada doesnt have a equivalent.
5.RAM and barak are good matches,but the smart-s is more powerfull than revathi radar(may be replaced in future classes by ashwini aesa naval variant).
6.Last two kamorta class will have composite super structureswhich provides higher stealth and lower weight,not clear what Heybeliada super structure is made of.
7.CODAG propulsion of Heybeliada is superior to CODAD of p-28.

Conclusion,for surface warfare Heybeliada is better but p-28 wins in ASW for which it was primarily designed for.

Exactly.

Kamorta is mainly for ASW.

 

[kaykay]

@Penguin Sir, how would you rate Klub missiles? Also what variants have India procured? One variant I know for sure is submarine launch 220km range, with sea skimming hypersonic terminal speed as our kilo class subs are equipped with that.

 

[kaykay]

Exactly.

Kamorta is mainly for ASW.

Yes. First Kamorta class(4+8) and now Indian navy wants 16 light corvettes(~500 tons) for mainly ASW role. Seems Our navy is concentrating on ASW capabilities more than ever.

 

[Penguin]

Yes it is. But YTKB is not the ASW system produced by Roketsan. It's a FAC build by Dearsan to Turkish Naval Forces.

Doh!

Figured it was the designation for Underwater defense warfare (DSH) Roket and Launcher System.
I know better now

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin Sir, how would you rate Klub missiles? Also what variants have India procured? One variant I know for sure is submarine launch 220km range, with sea skimming hypersonic terminal speed as our kilo class subs are equipped with that.

Afaik, mainly submarine launched versions Klub-S. First, the missile you desribe with supersonic terminal phase speed is the 3M-54E. In July 2006, it was announced that six of the Sindhughosh Class boats would be armed with the land-attack variant of the Klub-S (3M-14E). Perhaps 91RE1 ASW rocket variant also. But the number of missiles carried per boat may well be limited to just 5, which would mean a dedicated mission load out (either/or) rather than a mix (and/and). The P28s MAY carry 3M-54E (but that is my speculation). If the Talwar and Shivalik classes do not solely carry Brahmos, they may likely carrier Klub-N variant 3M-54TE: with only 8 cells, I would think it unlikely they carry a mix of variants. DIfferent for Kamorta class, as these will have double (8+8).

Yes. First Kamorta class(4+8) and now Indian navy wants 16 light corvettes(~500 tons) for mainly ASW role. Seems Our navy is concentrating on ASW capabilities more than ever.

Replacements for Veer class? Developments thereof?

 

[LegionnairE]

YTKB is a short range unguided rocket system, whereas asroc is intended to increase the range of use of ASW homing torpedoes by using a rocket to deliver the torpedo to the target area, where it will perform its search pattern. YTKB is probably in tended for light displacement vessel, which you would use closer to shore e.g. the shallow coastal waters and around islands. Intersting is that it might double as close in last ditch anti-torpedo weapon.

as @Neptune stated YTKB can be translated as NTPB, New Type Patrol Boat. This will be the only class of vessel that will carry Roketsan's new ASW rocket launcher in the next ten years, maybe forever. This is not as versatile as a heavy torpedo tube but I believe it can match Kamorta class in ASW role.

Heavy torpedoes aren't necessary for ASW anyway, a light torpedo collision on submarine hull is enough to put it out of commission mostly.

Here are the specs:
Underwater Defense Warfare (DSH) Rocket and Launcher System « Roketsan

 

[kaykay]

Afaik, mainly submarine launched versions Klub-S. First, the missile you desribe with supersonic terminal phase speed is the 3M-54E. In July 2006, it was announced that six of the Sindhughosh Class boats would be armed with the land-attack variant of the Klub-S (3M-14E). Perhaps 91RE1 ASW rocket variant also. But the number of missiles carried per boat may well be limited to just 5, which would mean a dedicated mission load out (either/or) rather than a mix (and/and). The P28s MAY carry 3M-54E (but that is my speculation). If the Talwar and Shivalik classes do not solely carry Brahmos, they may likely carrier Klub-N variant 3M-54TE: with only 8 cells, I would think it unlikely they carry a mix of variants. DIfferent for Kamorta class, as these will have double (8+8).


Replacements for Veer class? Developments thereof?

Thak you very much for the reply.
Um I think procurement has more to do with replacement of 4 Abhay class corvettes as navy wants dedicated ASW boats similar to Abhay class though much more advance.

 

[Penguin]

Thak you very much for the reply.
Um I think procurement has more to do with replacement of 4 Abhay class corvettes as navy wants dedicated ASW boats similar to Abhay class though much more advance.

But, there are only 4 Abhay (Project 1241.2 Molniya-2.) class. These ships are designed for coastal patrol and inshore anti-submarine warfare. The design is the patrol version of the Tarantul class, which is designated Project 1241.1 by the Russians, but is slightly longer and has diesel engines. These ships are fitted with a dipping sonar which is also used in Soviet helicopters.

 

[kaykay]

But, there are only 4 Abhay (Project 1241.2 Molniya-2.) class. These ships are designed for coastal patrol and inshore anti-submarine warfare. The design is the patrol version of the Tarantul class, which is designated Project 1241.1 by the Russians, but is slightly longer and has diesel engines. These ships are fitted with a dipping sonar which is also used in Soviet helicopters.

Yes only 4 Abhay class are in service but may be Navy wants to expand Its ASW capability in future. Thanks for the info though.

 

[Penguin]

as @Neptune stated YTKB can be translated as NTPB, New Type Patrol Boat. This will be the only class of vessel that will carry Roketsan's new ASW rocket launcher in the next ten years, maybe forever. This is not as versatile as a heavy torpedo tube but I believe it can match Kamorta class in ASW role.

Heavy torpedoes aren't necessary for ASW anyway, a light torpedo collision on submarine hull is enough to put it out of commission mostly.

Here are the specs:
Underwater Defense Warfare (DSH) Rocket and Launcher System « Roketsan

Technical Specifications ASRLS
Diamater196
Range500 – 2000 m
Burst Depth15 – 300 m
Weight(Rocket) 35.5 kg
Weight(with Tube) 43 kg
Length(Rocket) 1300 mm
Propellent TypeSmokeless composite fuel
Warhead TypeHigh Explosive, Insensitive
Warhead weight12 kg
Fire interval0.8 sec
Launching SystemStabilized, Automatic pointing and lock – in with Sonar data
Munitions Capacity6 Rocket
Pointing MethodAutomatic – Manual
Fuze TypeComputer

Technical Specifications RBU 6000
Diameter212
Range? – 5700 to 6000 m
Burst Depth? – 500 m
Weight(Rocket) 110. kg
Weight(with Tube) ? kg
Length(Rocket) 1830 mm
Propellent TypeSmokeless composite fuel
Warhead TypeHigh Explosive, Insensitive
Warhead weight25 kg
http://www.splav.org/en/arms/rpk/pu.asp

 

[Penguin]

Yes only 4 Abhay class are in service but may be Navy wants to expand Its ASW capability in future. Thanks for the info though.

Only 4 Abhay (Pauk, Molnya 2, 1241.2), diesel engined ASW variants of Veer (Tarantul, Molnya 1, 1241.1)

 

[LegionnairE]

@Penguin
Yes, I'm familiar with the russian ASW rocket launcher and I know it's superior. But it makes little difference in Turkey's surrounding seas. Couple of kilos in black sea, Greek Type 209s in extra-shallow aegean... I think YTKB can handle them all

it's just the difference of the environment, both ships excels in their work environment. Both excellent ASW ships. And I'd rather risk a small ship like YTKB going after submarines than rather large Kamorta.

A single heavy torpedo could sink either of them after all...

 

[Penguin]

Heavy torpedoes aren't necessary but some models can do both ASW and ASUW. E.g. 53.3 cm (21") DM2A3 and DM2A4 Seehecht (Seahake). DM2A3 is used in Type 206A submarines and Ula class (German Type 210 subs). Italian and Germand Type 212A, as well as export Type 209-1500 and the new Type 214 use DM2A4. It simplifies weapons loadout on subs, though with a mix of light and heavy, you could get more rounds into a given space. Likewise RUssian 533 mm (21") UGST.

 

[IND151]

Yes. First Kamorta class(4+8) and now Indian navy wants 16 light corvettes(~500 tons) for mainly ASW role. Seems Our navy is concentrating on ASW capabilities more than ever.

As one other member said dedicated ASW Corvettes will free up frigates and destroyers for other tasks.

Right now Talwar class frigates have ASW capability but it is not dedicated for ASW role only.