Indonesia Defence Forum

[¿Por qué?]

@Jatosint may I post your twit here?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1297536597936574465

You know what saudara serumpun ku tersayang, our TNI now isn't the same with TNI 15 years ago!

..... and people say that we DON'T HAVE regional problems

 

[Kansel]

Really? Thats a serious contender for the Sigma 10514 then?

I still dont know if it's for different procurement or PKR next batch, but they offer us belharra design again

 

[Kansel]

do they offered it as part of 30$ billion soft loan ?

Kinda, they actually already offered this in 2017 and the first purpose is for our heavy frigate tender (eventho they bring FREMM in the end instead) but our MoD in that time doesn't have any interest on acquiring that.

or should i say most of things that supposed to take contract back in his era?

 

[Gundala]

I'm not sure about the price, but in terms of capability, are you sure preferring F-16V than Rafale?

Chestnut already made some points on your thoughts about it which I agree as well. Now pls allow me to add my thoughts. First of all we should see the intended role we have on F16V. For example; if its meant to be a workhorse/patrol duty do we really need double engine? So basically it started from the role intended then goes to tech spec, price, and so on.

I assume you try to compare it with China has specially thier stealth? Not much of points can be taken over that kind of discussions. To counter it we must be looking from larger perspective. Question like are their stealth able to hit Natuna from their closest base (battle range)? Do they need a carrier? Can they be used from carrier? etc. They can have top of the line stealth fighters but if we are out of their range then perhaps the strategy is not buying "stealth killer" fighter, instead we have to make sure they stay out of range. Thats perhaps one of the reason we starting to prioritze on blue water capable ships. But naval ships have to be supported with air coverage. And on this matter heavy fighter with longer range play an important role. So to do this kind of job perhaps Rafale shine more then F16V.

So again its not all about fighter capability, its about the role they are assigned to and how they fit in.

European arms dealer is well known to be generous for their "consultation fees" and that's killing me literally to open and break their monopoly

Well, still US has the ace cards they could play. We might go Europe on some small to moderate scale, but on a large pot such as 2 ska purchase Im pretty sure US will play all their cards on the table. After all using good cards on small/moderate bet isnt wise right?

Oh and having wamenhan that literaly way richer then most of vendors surely can balance the scale abit right?

 

[Whizzack]

So you're essentially saying that it was okay that the Indonesian government stepped out of line and silenced foreign journalists by murdering them. Because let's be real, that was the tipping point. The Clinton administration didn't really care about our policies in East Timor as they were more concerned about keeping us as a close ally. It was the fact that the TNI murdered foreign journalists that threw them past the point of foreign understanding from an Indonesian point of view.

Now.. this is upsetting... and a serious allegation too.. do you have any proof of that...? of murders..? Weren't they killed during combat because they chose to be at the combat zone..? Or were you suggesting they were executed ISIS style by TNI...?? What ? they think being white journalists will make them immune to bullets or something..? Were there even credible witnesses to the event..?

 

[Gundala]

@Jatosint may I post your twit here?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1297536597936574465

You know what saudara serumpun ku tersayang, our TNI now isn't the same with TNI 15 years ago!

Well Im done being nice to them. Most of you prolly miss it, but if you looking closely at their political leaders speech on how they put Indonesia as inferior nation/race when they comparing the two nations you might get the idea. I just dont get it, their govt even worried when Malaysian people fancy Indonesian artists more then their own. Long long time ago I even heard about how they try to limit how many Indonesian songs can be played in one Radio station per day

Another "back then" event was how their former PM "bragged" about having scorpene and told us not to worry, the funny party is we didnt even made any statement regarding them having the subs. All my life I never seen Indonesia making a formal statement about our own neighbor defense procurement even if its consider a big purchase, its just not us.

So I have the tendency to reply "serumpun my ***" whenever I hear/read the word serumpun
I dont hate the people, I hate their govt policy and how their intention to make their people think that they are Superior Melayu by "down grading" us...

 

[nufix]

Well Im done being nice to them. Most of you prolly miss it, but if you looking closely at their political leaders speech on how they put Indonesia as inferior nation/race when they comparing the two nations you might get the idea. I just dont get it, their govt even worried when Malaysian people fancy Indonesian artists more then their own. Long long time ago I even heard about how they try to limit how many Indonesian songs can be played in one Radio station per day

Another "back then" event was how their former PM "bragged" about having scorpene and told us not to worry, the funny party is we didnt even made any statement regarding them having the subs. All my life I never seen Indonesia making a formal statement about our own neighbor defense procurement even if its consider a big purchase, its just not us.

So I have the tendency to reply "serumpun my ***" whenever I hear/read the word serumpun
I dont hate the people, I hate their govt policy and how their intention to make their people think that they are Superior Melayu by "down grading" us...

Well, if you go to Malaysian forum, many of them criticized the fact that their leaders mentality are somewhat stuck in the 90s thinking that Malaysia is still superior than that of Thailand and Indonesia. Their politicians like to do comparison basically to get their constituents convinced that they have done their job well. But at what cost? Their 2nd quarter economy performance is the worst in ASEAN now. Even worse than Thailand that heavily relied on Tourism.

Malaysia could act gangsta in 90s and early 2000s when Indonesiaand Thailand were still recovering from Asian financial crisis. But now they are in a crisis of their own making.

 

[NEKONEKO]

political leaders speech on how they put Indonesia as inferior nation/race when they comparing the two nations

Always has been.

Their grassroots too.

 

[Alex898]

The talk about which fighter we should buy, had been done here too many Times, so im just gonna sum it:
1. F-16v, because commonality, our experience with f16, learning curve towards F35 in the future.
2. Su 35, CAATSA, so don't even think about su 57. Unless you want to lose US, not just their military equipment, but our export too.
3. Rafale or Typhoon, expensive jets, it needs integration process to our existing fleet.
4. F35, yes, but probably in the future. Why ? The Lockheed Martin CEO said so.

I always wonder though, why there's people here that want to make an arm race between Spore, Aussie, and Indonesia ? They always talk about how we should be on par with those 2 country like they are our immediate enemy, well i don't think we'll never win an arm race with those two, and everyone knows why.

 

[Nike]

The talk about which fighter we should buy, had been done here too many Times, so im just gonna sum it:
1. F-16v, because commonality, our experience with f16, learning curve towards F35 in the future.
2. Su 35, CAATSA, so don't even think about su 57. Unless you want to lose US, not just their military equipment, but our export too.
3. Rafale or Typhoon, expensive jets, it needs integration process to our existing fleet.
4. F35, yes, but probably in the future. Why ? The Lockheed Martin CEO said so.

I always wonder though, why there's people here that want to make an arm race between Spore, Aussie, and Indonesia ? They always talk about how we should be on par with those 2 country like they are our immediate enemy, well i don't think we'll never win an arm race with those two, and everyone knows why.

well, i am one who believe Indonesia should have fire power equal or more larger than those two combined not today but in near future we should do so

 

[initial_d]

well, i am one who believe Indonesia should have fire power equal or more larger than those two combined not today but in near future we should do so

With our economy getting stronger, so did our millitary, and i believe surpassing singapore strength will be surpassed by us are in the near future, with Australia it will take 20 or 30 years, it depends on how we spend our defense budget and how we get rid off the leeches element on our purchasing plan (jangan lagi pembelian alutsista jadi sapi perahan oknum)

 

[Alex898]

well, i am one who believe Indonesia should have fire power equal or more larger than those two combined not today but in near future we should do so

Well me too, but don't think we can start to do it in near future. The politics in our military aquisition is just ridiculous. and the worse thing is, it has not got any better. On the other hand, looks like Aussie and Spore has this long term plan, which we don't have. Look at how we treat MEF, it changes all the time. One day you want pkr, now its not good enough, you want Iver. When we finish 2 Iver, i believe they Will move to another ship again.
Besides, these 2 country is our friends, i know how there's a saying that there's no friends in politics, but even when China try to claim our teritory, we still going for diplomatic way.

 

[NEKONEKO]

The talk about which fighter we should buy, had been done here too many Times, so im just gonna sum it:
1. F-16v, because commonality, our experience with f16, learning curve towards F35 in the future.
2. Su 35, CAATSA, so don't even think about su 57. Unless you want to lose US, not just their military equipment, but our export too.
3. Rafale or Typhoon, expensive jets, it needs integration process to our existing fleet.
4. F35, yes, but probably in the future. Why ? The Lockheed Martin CEO said so.

I always wonder though, why there's people here that want to make an arm race between Spore, Aussie, and Indonesia ? They always talk about how we should be on par with those 2 country like they are our immediate enemy, well i don't think we'll never win an arm race with those two, and everyone knows why.

And we will talk about it again later, will be heated again maybe.

Look at how we treat MEF, it changes all the time. One day you want pkr, now its not good enough, you want Iver. When we finish 2 Iver, i believe they Will move to another ship again.

YAMEROOOOOOO!!!!!!

 

[Gundala]

On the other hand, looks like Aussie and Spore has this long term plan, which we don't have. Look at how we treat MEF, it changes all the time.

Well some changes were made due to threat projection and new requirements. Some change because we found out its "too expensive", and some just for silly reason. Its getting bit better tho.

The way I see it for now we must focus on maintaining our current assets quantity either jets/naval ships. We all know van speijk is going to be retired, hawk is going to be retired so we are playing catch up game. Specially after that SU35 silly drama that also witheld other jets purchase, not to mention the KFX drama that might be put on hold and diwariskan to the next presidency

2018-2019 there was a global economic slowdown, 2020-2021 is Covid era. The situation is not helping but we have to have the will to push 2 SKA purchase and iver at the end of 2021. 2022-2023 another SKA and 2 more frigates at least. If we fail to follow the timeline we might end up buying stopgap for the rest of 2020'ish

 

[Lasa-X]

Lol yeah offer. What can you do if we dont feel like parlaying?

Why on earth are you replying him??