Indonesia Defence Forum

[umigami]

Do you mean CFT ? That's conformal fuel tank, somekind of additional fuel tanks attached to each side of fighter jets to increase the range though reduce the aerodynamics compared with traditional external fuel tanks.

Conformal Fuel Tank, or CFT, or Punuk as it is popularly called here. A way to further extend the plane's endurance and fuel capacity while not fucking up with the design too much, also a showcase of "modularity" that is a hot thing these days.

Everyone say f-16 (and any other fighter) with CFT can bring more fuel without compromising anything. But I don't fully believe that.
Like a "jungkat-jungkit", if you add something new that will bring some effect, that will bring some compromise on other aspect too.

@Cromwell wow, I love that camo. Why we stop using that?

 

[Cromwell]

Everyone say f-16 (and any other fighter) with CFT can bring more fuel without compromising anything. But I don't fully believe that.
Like a "jungkat-jungkit", if you add something new that will bring some effect, that will bring some compromise on other aspect too.

@Cromwell wow, I love that camo. Why we stop using that?

I'm afraid i can't help you inquiring why we ceased using smart blue/white colour scheme however timeline of our colour schemes for F-16.
Around 1990s if you remember from back then books like Intisari, etc. We had Elang Biru scheme aerobatic bright colour scheme.

Few years later the team disbanded and aircraft resumed in duty in 3rd Squadron. In 2000 the colour scheme went to Millenium scheme untill nowadays

Credit to www.f-16.net

 

[HellFireIndo]

View attachment 569572
Credit to ihs jane's
Something might enlightens you for strongest alternative from Flankers

Cancelled follow up order for 9 Pakistan intended F-16 and actual TNI-AU plan of F-16 in 1990s

From www.f-16.net

" In March 1996, Indonesian Air Force Chief of Staff, Air Vice Marshall Sutria Tubagus, signed a contract with General Dynamics-Lockheed Martin for procurement of an additional 9 F-16A block 15. The aircraft would be assigned the serial numbers TS-1613 up to TS-1621, and they had already been manufactured for Pakistan but were under embargo following the Pressler amendment. Indonesia's payment for these 9 F-16s was meant to reimburse Pakistan for the already paid for order. All of these F-16s were to be assigned to the 3rd squadron to bring it in full squadron strength of 20 combat aircraft (NATO standard). The Indonesian Air Force or TNIAU, considering her task to protect a territory of in total 12 million square kilometers, intended to acquire a total of 60 F-16s to give an adequate air defense capability. "
View attachment 569577
Early TNI AU F-16 colour scheme prior to delivery
Credit to www.f-16.net

By the end of this year they should clear all of this Su-35 shit, either order them for real or just re-allocate the budget for F-16V acquisition, that way we could get a really logical deal than ordering two types of planes from two rivaling countries, diverting budget and attention unnecessarily. Honestly, i prefer the Blue scheme, it just simply better all-around, but then TNI-AU seems to really lack artistic taste even today.

Everyone say f-16 (and any other fighter) with CFT can bring more fuel without compromising anything. But I don't fully believe that.
Like a "jungkat-jungkit", if you add something new that will bring some effect, that will bring some compromise on other aspect too.

@Cromwell wow, I love that camo. Why we stop using that?

Me personally don't think CFT have no adverse effect, i could think of some, namely the aerodynamics and maneuverability. Kinda fair enough trade-off as these days maneuverability doesn't see much use with all the stealth and BVR shit at 80km distance. Also, USAF itself seems to refrain using CFT on their F-16s, rumor says "doctrine" is the reason.

 

[mejikuhibiu]

View attachment 569536
bakalan di isi apaan ?

F16 maybe

 

[Cromwell]

By the end of this year they should clear all of this Su-35 shit, either order them for real or just re-allocate the budget for F-16V acquisition, that way we could get a really logical deal than ordering two types of planes from two rivaling countries, diverting budget and attention unnecessarily. Honestly, i prefer the Blue scheme, it just simply better all-around, but then TNI-AU seems to really lack artistic taste even today.


Me personally don't think CFT have no adverse effect, i could think of some, namely the aerodynamics and maneuverability. Kinda fair enough trade-off as these days maneuverability doesn't see much use with all the stealth and BVR shit at 80km distance. Also, USAF itself seems to refrain using CFT on their F-16s, rumor says "doctrine" is the reason.

I know kind of tired actually with these Su-35 dramas. 3 - 2 years ago i might still argued & debated on preferable options but now, i just don't care. CAATSA refrains bank on facillitating transaction on Flankers unless we paid them in big fresh cash which we unable to. As why USAF & National Guard don't use CFT, their existing F-16s are older series ( below Block 50/52 unable to use CFT ) however constantly upgraded with latest radar, etc. Besides they have largest aerial refuelling fleet on earth, they don't need CFT for longer range operations. They use KC-135

 

[Svantana]

 

[HellFireIndo]

I know kind of tired actually with these Su-35 dramas. 3 - 2 years ago i might still argued & debated on preferable options but now, i just don't care. CAATSA refrains bank on facillitating transaction on Flankers unless we paid them in big fresh cash which we unable to. As why USAF & National Guard don't use CFT, their existing F-16s are older series ( below Block 50/52 unable to use CFT ) however constantly upgraded with latest radar, etc. Besides they have largest aerial refuelling fleet on earth, they don't need CFT for longer range operations. They use KC-135

PKR and Su-35 wastes too much time, somebody need to get these shit done real quick if they are serious doing MEF 3. Almost all member here are tired with Su-35 thing, it's just not worth it anymore, even if they arrives what will we do then? the Flankers are trouble in itself, not to mention that we rely on unreliable and sanctioned supplier, we are planning to pay for expensive gun that's going to shoot ourselves in the leg. Even at minimal investment return of Su-35 budget, we would still get around 500 million USD, that's good enough addition if they go on with the Vipers.

 

[Cromwell]

https://thecrimereport.org/2006/04/12/4-arrested-in-hawaii-in-conspiracy-to-buy-cache-of-weapons/

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Apr/14/ln/FP604140358.html

Btw, some 2006 old stories about Indonesians arrested in Hawaii over arms smuggling. 245 AIM-9P Sidewinder missiles, 5000 strafing ammunitions, aircraft radars, 882 SMGs, 800 9mm guns, 16 H&K Sniper rifles.

 

[mejikuhibiu]

PKR and Su-35 wastes too much time, somebody need to get these shit done real quick if they are serious doing MEF 3. Almost all member here are tired with Su-35 thing, it's just not worth it anymore, even if they arrives what will we do then? the Flankers are trouble in itself, not to mention that we rely on unreliable and sanctioned supplier, we are planning to pay for expensive gun that's going to shoot ourselves in the leg. Even at minimal investment return of Su-35 budget, we would still get around 500 million USD, that's good enough addition if they go on with the Vipers.

I was pesimist about su 35 chance now.. the better option is f16v or grippen..
I heard some news russia is agak berat dgn imbal dagang..so thats is one factor why su 35 so alot..and the important factor of CAATSA of course

 

[Cromwell]

I was pesimist about su 35 chance now.. the better option is f16v or grippen..
I heard some news russia is agak berat dgn imbal dagang..so thats is one factor why su 35 so alot..and the important factor of CAATSA of course

Gripen actually is kind of tough entering Indonesia despite all Saab advertisements, transfer of technology promises and of course compliance to Act no 16, 2012 because Lockheed Martin already made strong presence here 2 Squadrons of F-16s ( 3rd & 16th ), existing MRO facillities here, long term low interests loans US Gov wealthy enough to provide via FMS ( Foreign Military Sales ) programme should we procure their arms and also relatively equal roles between Gripen & F-16. I like Saab products however the odd of Gripen already slim, introducing new types of fighter jets for relatively tight budget Indonesia is ill advised. I like some of their products though like RBS-70 SHORADs, AShM like RBS-15, their radars and subsystems also their AEWC platforms such as Erieye & Globaleye but not Gripen, decent aircraft but just not for us.

 

[Gundala]

PKR and Su-35 wastes too much time, somebody need to get these shit done real quick if they are serious doing MEF 3. Almost all member here are tired with Su-35 thing, it's just not worth it anymore, even if they arrives what will we do then? the Flankers are trouble in itself, not to mention that we rely on unreliable and sanctioned supplier, we are planning to pay for expensive gun that's going to shoot ourselves in the leg. Even at minimal investment return of Su-35 budget, we would still get around 500 million USD, that's good enough addition if they go on with the Vipers.

Politics, converting SU35 to F16V can surely bring ammo to domestic opposition which can create a mess on this politics "cooling down" after election period. And I believe we all know how the perception going towards usa inside our own population and inside own military faction. Some military personal who had strived on embargo era most likely dont want this to happen. Or at the very least opposing in a strong manner which create another problems. So expect longer delay

Politics aside, I am not sure whats going on rusky military industry as general. I know some of them have been hit hard with economic downfall, embargo, etc. But the recent offer to India which include subs, SU-57 joint development, etc might reflect how their def industry shape now. Its like "obral", "rindu order", which is not common for them in relation to their culture. This brings me up to your statement "...not to mention that we rely on unreliable and sanctioned supplier...". Perhaps looking at it making me feel like the chance of getting it becoming smaller. Their weaken military industry (if its the case) can reduce and limit our option/leverage in dealing stuffs. I think SBY knows this by doing heavy purchased from them, but it takes two to tango. Perhaps in this case they might not know how to tango

 

[Cromwell]

PKR and Su-35 wastes too much time, somebody need to get these shit done real quick if they are serious doing MEF 3. Almost all member here are tired with Su-35 thing, it's just not worth it anymore, even if they arrives what will we do then? the Flankers are trouble in itself, not to mention that we rely on unreliable and sanctioned supplier, we are planning to pay for expensive gun that's going to shoot ourselves in the leg. Even at minimal investment return of Su-35 budget, we would still get around 500 million USD, that's good enough addition if they go on with the Vipers.

Some suggest, not me, others. Since EDA ( Excess Defense Article ) 24 F-16 C/D are placed on new 16th Squadron in Roesmin Nurjadin AFB, Pekanbaru while roughly at same period of time F-5E in 14th Squadron are retired. Actually their roles already assumed by newer F-16s we earned thus 500 Millions US$ should be best allocated on maximal upgrades ( top tape of MLU ) on all F-16s fleet we have. However should we insist to replace 14th Squadron with newer aircrafts better allocate / arrange loans fully for new fighter while the previously 500 Millions US$ budget goes to maximise upgrades & arms for existing F-16s. However that's just personal opinion

 

[Raduga]

EC725 Caracal equipped with FFAR and "stella" air freshener

 

[Nike]

EC725 Caracal equipped with FFAR and "stella" air freshener

A complete package actually,

 

[Raduga]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1206927816138771

Head of SAAB indonesia visiting KPK

we could buy their product such as Giraffe 8A to complement our NASAMS or Sea Giraffe for our KCR