Indo Pak Maritime Strategic struggle

[Zarvan]

I like your spirit, but most of the time you go overboard and your comments are far from reality.
Who doesn't want to drive a Mercedes?

You all think that sitting on a keyboard makes you more patriotic and sincere to the country, and all in uniform are just wasting time actually defending this country.

Unfortunately our political governments have their own agenda's regarding military spending and it takes a toll on military purchases, but this is not the only factor, there are many other factors in play, which affect our military acquisitions, specially after 1998.

We would never be able to match India in quantity ever, keep this in mind, similarly India would never be able to match China.

There are numerous examples in military history, when battles have been won with smaller but efficient forces.
We have one of the most capable and battle hardened army in the world, which is ready in all facets of warfare. The WOT has done damage to our society, but it has made the PA ready for any conflict.

Sir I don't like the fact that we have to trust China that in case of war it would keep most of India's Navy busy India is growing and they are now growing with thoughts of facing war on two fronts simultaneously and worst part is when it comes to Navy the are producing there own ships also and getting most ships with TOT. Indian Navy has been getting ships from where ever want and they are getting more. Now let say in next 10 to 15 years Indian Navy grows up to a Navy with two AC Battle Groups and around 80 Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes combined !!!! Do you really think our Navy even can manage to defend our selves with let say only 12 Frigates that too which lack Ship to Land strike capability and around 11 Submarines because India will along with 80 major ships would have around 30 Submarines even more. Sorry Sir I am not going over board my suggestions which I say still makes us a defensive Navy with a little aggressive fire power. I am not asking to have AC or even Helicopter landing ships but sorry we need ships which are equipped with VLS for ship to land strike capability. And we need to have 24 to 30 such ships. Other wise our Navy can only manage to stand its ground for two days at maximum and after that it Indian Navy would unleash hell on us and forget Karachi and Gawader after that.

Also China can't help you when you hardly have anything on your side to support its Navy. Also the behavior right now China has shown in Duklam region in dispute with India, I have even less trust on the fact that we can or should depend on China.

@Rashid Mahmood @Tipu7

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Sir I don't like the fact that we have to trust China that in case of war it would keep most of India's Navy busy India is growing and they are now growing with thoughts of facing war on two fronts simultaneously and worst part is when it comes to Navy the are producing there own ships also and getting most ships with TOT. Indian Navy has been getting ships from where ever want and they are getting more. Now let say in next 10 to 15 years Indian Navy grows up to a Navy with two AC Battle Groups and around 80 Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes combined !!!! Do you really think our Navy even can manage to defend our selves with let say only 12 Frigates that too which lack Ship to Land strike capability and around 11 Submarines because India will along with 80 major ships would have around 30 Submarines even more. Sorry Sir I am not going over board my suggestions which I say still makes us a defensive Navy with a little aggressive fire power. I am not asking to have AC or even Helicopter landing ships but sorry we need ships which are equipped with VLS for ship to land strike capability. And we need to have 24 to 30 such ships. Other wise our Navy can only manage to stand its ground for two days at maximum and after that it Indian Navy would unleash hell on us and forget Karachi and Gawader after that.

Also China can't help you when you hardly have anything on your side to support its Navy. Also the behavior right now China has shown in Duklam region in dispute with India, I have even less trust on the fact that we can or should depend on China.

@Rashid Mahmood @Tipu7

I never said that we will depend on China for anything, it was merely an example in dis-balance of forces.

IN gets military equipment from everywhere because they are NOT a Muslim country with Nukes. We are.
We are a defensive navy and will always remain so, as we do not have designs to land forces on any other shore.

Just read one conflict, "The Normandy Landing". and maybe you will understand what I mean.

It's actually useless to get into any discussion with you, as your fixated to your idea's.

 

[Zarvan]

I never said that we will depend on China for anything, it was merely an example in dis-balance of forces.

IN gets military equipment from everywhere because they are NOT a Muslim country with Nukes. We are.
We are a defensive navy and will always remain so, as we do not have designs to land forces on any other shore.

Just read one conflict, "The Normandy Landing". and maybe you will understand what I mean.

It's actually useless to get into any discussion with you, as your fixated to your idea's.

Sir my point is that the size difference which now soon will be we would not even be defensive Navy we would be simply sitting ducks.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Sir my point is that the size difference which now soon will be we would not even be defensive Navy we would be simply sitting ducks.

Do you think that our military doesn't know this and it's only you who is aware of this "difference".
Smaller forces always make their strategy based on their size.

Bro, If you spend more time reading history, rather than commenting on social media, it will teach you alot.

Read this article:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1217390/navy-gets-only-10pc-of-defence-budget

 

[!eon]

Even in Islam ALLAH says have at least half the force your enemy has

@Zarvan I really want to know the reference dear

 

[Tipu7]

Yr Military doctrine & weapon acquisition is done according to threat environment which depends on our geography, economy, history & social grounds. Our naval threat is only India and threat ground is Arabian sea - Indian ocean specific. Indian naval threat includes China too as a result it needs much bigger navy & coast guard to protect its waters & coastline. If we raise a navy of size equal to that of Indian navy, it will be white elephant as our geography/economy do not support the concept of big navy with big ships. Our navy role is to keep sea open & avoid blockade not to go far open in Indian ocean and challenge Indian navy head on. Even if we do that, India will simply encircle our navy in open ocean and send it to sea bed. Our offensive arms are submarine & to some extent Maritime Petrol Air crafts.

Sir my point is that the size difference which now soon will be we would not even be defensive Navy we would be simply sitting ducks.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

@Zarvan

The only reference I could find is this:

وَ اَعِدُّوۡا لَہُمۡ مَّا اسۡتَطَعۡتُمۡ مِّنۡ قُوَّۃٍ وَّ مِنۡ رِّبَاطِ الۡخَیۡلِ تُرۡہِبُوۡنَ بِہٖ عَدُوَّ اللّٰہِ وَ عَدُوَّکُمۡ وَ اٰخَرِیۡنَ مِنۡ دُوۡنِہِمۡ ۚ لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَہُمۡ ۚ اَللّٰہُ یَعۡلَمُہُمۡ ؕ وَ مَا تُنۡفِقُوۡا مِنۡ شَیۡءٍ فِیۡ سَبِیۡلِ اللّٰہِ یُوَفَّ اِلَیۡکُمۡ وَ اَنۡتُمۡ لَا تُظۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿008:060
‏ اور جہاں تک ہو سکے زور سے اور گھوڑوں کے تیار رکھنے سے ان کے لئے مستعد رہو کہ اس سے خدا کے دشمنوں اور تمہارے دشمنوں اور ان کے سوا اور لوگوں پر جن کو تم نہیں جانتے اور خدا جانتا ہے ہیبت بیٹھی رہے گی اور تم جو کچھ راہ خدا میں خرچ کرو گے اس کا ثواب تم کو پورا پورا دیا جائیگا۔ اور تمہارا ذرا نقصان نہ کیا جائیگا۔ ‏
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If there is any other reference Please comment.

 

[Zarvan]

Do you think that our military doesn't know this and it's only you who is aware of this "difference".
Smaller forces always make their strategy based on their size.

Bro, If you spend more time reading history, rather than commenting on social media, it will teach you alot.

Read this article:
https://www.dawn.com/news/1217390/navy-gets-only-10pc-of-defence-budget

Sir they would sure know it but sorry I hardly see any counter measures even the coastal defensive systems are only workable when enemy come to certain distance the kind of fire power India is building they are not going to come to that distance. And please I am fed up of some secret surprise thing. Our Navy has given great performance in the past but that was result that we had major advantage specially submarine in 65 and there was not that much difference in size and quality. Still in 71 we faced hell on our western font also. I am not interested in seeing Karachi going down in most ruthless manner. Building up Maritime Security Agency is great but against smugglers and terrorists not Indian Navy. Also Navy Chief needs to fight for the budget because I don't expect Army and Air Force let them that easily get more budget.

Yr Military doctrine & weapon acquisition is done according to threat environment which depends on our geography, economy, history & social grounds. Our naval threat is only India and threat ground is Arabian sea - Indian ocean specific. Indian naval threat includes China too as a result it needs much bigger navy & coast guard to protect its waters & coastline. If we raise a navy of size equal to that of Indian navy, it will be white elephant as our geography/economy do not support the concept of big navy with big ships. Our navy role is to keep sea open & avoid blockade not to go far open in Indian ocean and challenge Indian navy head on. Even if we do that, India will simply encircle our navy in open ocean and send it to sea bed. Our offensive arms are submarine & to some extent Maritime Petrol Air crafts.

If that is the case than you really think we stand a chance with only 12 Frigates which lack Ship to Land Strike Capability and only 11 Submarines I know India has to face or take care of China but what if in case of Pakistan and India war China sits idol which I think they will after what they have done is in Dokhlam region Sir India can afford to deploy most Navy against us and our current power will only give Navy at maximum two days to survive and keep Karachi and our sea safe after that either ALLAH destroys Indian Navy ships and submarines otherwise we would loose on our Naval front.


I am still trying to figure out How our Navy plans to fight a war against a Indian Navy which will have two AC Groups around 80 Destroyers and Frigates and Corvettes in next 10 to 15 years and not to forget Missile Boats and Patrol Boats. With current size of Pakistan Navy even after getting 8 subs from China.

 

[Arsalan]

Even in Islam ALLAH says have at least half the force your enemy has and sorry but our Navy is not even 1/3 and soon gap will go to 1/6

Hein,,, WHERE? Where is this said?

PLEASE CONFIRM!

 

[New World]

There are numerous examples in military history, when battles have been won with smaller but efficient forces.
We have one of the most capable and battle hardened army in the world, which is ready in all facets of warfare. The WOT has done damage to our society, but it has made the PA ready for any conflict

Indeed Army has been hardened in almost all kind of war. but we are talking about PN and if i'm not wrong PN hasn't been involved wholly in WOT.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Indeed Army has been hardened in almost all kind of war. but we are talking about PN and if i'm not wrong PN hasn't been involved wholly in WOT.

Well the PN can't go and fight in NW or SW.
But addition of new weapon systems (both coastal & on-board vessels), MCTC, Gwadar Port Security, Turbat Air Station, all these have uplifted PNs role all over.

 

[HRK]

Sir I don't like the fact that we have to trust China that in case of war it would keep most of India's Navy busy

Zarvan plz.....

I don't know how you construct your arguments and present it as FACTS. Now would you plz direct us where have you read that Pakistan Navy is expecting PLA Navy as their SAVIOR ....

plz show some maturity

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Hein,,, WHERE? Where is this said?

PLEASE CONFIRM!

 

[New World]

Well the PN can't go and fight in NW or SW.
But addition of new weapon systems (both coastal & on-board vessels), MCTC, Gwadar Port Security, Turbat Air Station, all these have uplifted PNs role all over.

sir, this is what i'm saying..
war in NW, SW is irrelevant for PN.

I can say that PA and at some extend PAF are battle hardened after fighting in SW, NW and FATA, but i cannot say that about PN because PN neither has sophisticated ships or Radar nor it has experience with modern equipment. and Example of this is the shown up of a indian submarine during the Pak-china naval exercise and GOD know for how much of time that sub was there and if it alone or had a company of another..

 

[wiseone2]

sir, this is what i'm saying..
war in NW, SW is irrelevant for PN.

I can say that PA and at some extend PAF are battle hardened after fighting in SW, NW and FATA, but i cannot say that about PN because PN neither has sophisticated ships or Radar nor it has experience with modern equipment. and Example of this is the shown up of a indian submarine during the Pak-china naval exercise and GOD know for how much of time that sub was there and if it alone or had a company of another..

fighting alone does not make you battle hardened