India's Missile Defenses Can Now Take On Decoys. That's a Really Big Deal

[Fawadqasim1]

This is another tejas and arjun in making ...

Yup

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

This false sense of security is the most dangerous thing. It will ensures a nuclear exchange between the two countries this system might be good for stoping 50% conventional warheads but nuclear or tn warheads. With three 1.5 mt warheads
With 45 to 50 seconds intervals one at 50km altitude the other at 25km altitude and the last one at 5km altitude will devastate your city with its bmds just with 3 shaheen iis it wont cost more than a jf 17. Its very easy to make a jet engine for an rc plane in a machine shop but making state of the art turbofan engine is a totally different ball game. I hope you understand what i am contemplating.

We know that BMD can't intercept everything. Your idea that you can bust a city with 3 nukes is laughable and retarded. Delhi alone will require 150 nukes to be hit hard and yet it will be less damage of Stalingrad after WW2. You don't have evidence to say that 3 nukes will work for a city but just farting around with fake news. Stop giving fake news and start speaking of real damage with experimental evidence.

radioactivity still have greatest threats for mankind either its form of bomb or chain reaction both have same mechanism @Vijyes Yechury , Hiroshima, and Nagasaki radioactivity had gone in 2016, Chernobyl accidents and tree miles radiactivity will be gone in after 2050 @Vijyes Yechury

That is a joke. Hiroshima and Nagasaki was rebuilt by 1960 itself. The number of victims of radioactivity was minimal. Japan did not even surrender for 25 days after the attack. They surrendered when USSR came to attack Japan. So much for radiation and nuclear bomb effect

capabilities wise also work not 100%, US mid course defense system will defend less then 50 ICBM out of 100 ICBM fired by China and Russia your AAD PAAD is definitely not better than US mid course defense system @Vijyes Yechury

GMD is not comparable to AAD/PDV. Compare THAAD and PAC-3 to PDV and AAD respectively. GMD intercepts mid course and that is a difficult thing Intercepting at terminal phase is easier.

 

[sparten]

There is a lot of nonsence sprouted by Indians that "they can intercept MIRV". No they can't. No one can. Some idiot even wrote MIRV is used for "saturation attacks". Not they are not. Thats MRV. Multiple Re entry Vehicles. Note the absence of the "I" in that. An MRV is like a single RV missile, only with multiple RV, like say 3 which are use in a pattern against a single target.

MIRV stands for multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle. It sends different RV to geographically spaced targets, not multiple RV onto the same target as people have been claiming.

This has implications for how its intercepted. A "normal" SRV or MRV carrying missile is launched on a trajectory which will take the missile to target. The defenders RADAR calculates the trajectory and sends an interceptor to shoot it down. Or them down in the case of MRV.

An MIRV does not work that way. Instead the rocket nose cone contains a "bus" which has a small motor and the multiple RV. Missile is launched and the bus seperates. It puts itself on a particular trajectory and releases an RV. It then fires its motor and shifts to a new trajectory to release the next RV. This continues until all warheads are released.

This makes the ground based systems job much harder and basically unfeasible. The defender does not know whats the actual target is until much later. Its not like say two missiles are launched and the defender can confidently say "ok, one Delhi the other Luckknow". He'll only know if either is a target as the RV begins its rentery reducing the envelop greatly.

Many Indians claim that "we have a midcourse interceptor, ha ha". Yeah, irelevant. Note what I said about the "bus" and shifting trajectory? So you see the bus on the RADAR and send an interceptor after it. Great. Except once it releases one RV its going to shift its trakectory and it won't be where the interceptor is going. And no you cannot simply "launch another one". A ground bases system has to go through the thick lower atmosphere and enter space this takes time.

There is no realistic way to have a useful defence against MIRV systems using ground based systems. Space based? Yes.

 

[Ultima Thule]

That is a joke. Hiroshima and Nagasaki was rebuilt by 1960 itself. The number of victims of radioactivity was minimal. Japan did not even surrender for 25 days after the attack. They surrendered when USSR came to attack Japan. So much for radiation and nuclear bomb effect

Do research before you posting currently both of Hiroshima Nagasaki peoples giving a birth of mutated children, they are suffering leukemia, cancers and other related diseases @Vijyes Yechury

GMD is not comparable to AAD/PDV. Compare THAAD and PAC-3 to PDV and AAD respectively. GMD intercepts mid course and that is a difficult thing Intercepting at terminal phase is easier.

but THAAD and PAC-3 , S-400 is still not used in battlefield, if US GMD have such low rate of intercept than you consider what the hit rate of THAAD, PAC-3, S-400 against sophisticated MRBM, IRBM @Vijyes Yechury

 

[khanmubashir]

were right next to you and have 150+ warheads with multiple and varied delivery vehicles

You aint stoppin much, thats a guarantee

USA has that technolog. I am not sure of Russia. But, USA can easily sift through decoys


BMD does not stop everything but just many things. That is good enough. Better to get hit with 50 warheads than 150. Also, saturation fire on one target due to BMD can protect the others due to warhead limitations


Cruise missile is piece of cake. The real challenge is against ballistic missiles. The probability of kill is quite high for missiles upto MRBM range. ICBM will be difficult to intercept. Even IRBM is more difficult due to higher speed.


4ft MIRV? MIRV just launches multiple warheads from same missile. That means that there will be need for more than 1 BMD missile per BM missile. If there are 3 MIRV warhead, 3 times BMD missile is needed. But it is not impossible. Also, Mach 18 is some high speed IRBM. Pakistan is limited to MRBM within 2500km. 10Mach may be reasonable limit


MIRV can be intercepted. It just has more warheads than normal missile. Launching MIRVed missile with 3 warhead is same as launching 3 missile with 1 warhead

Even if Pakistan invests, Pakistan does not have the required technical manpower to make these missiles and BMD


What radiation? The radiation is only momentary. In a matter of few minutes, radiation will be diluted in the vas atmosphere. Humans have some radiation tolerance too to tolerate the diluted radiation.


USA has shown the ability to deal with decoys as well as high speed missiles. Decoys have different signature than actual warheads and also have lower speed due to lower weight and thus higher drag. It is automatic that the higher weight one is the warhead. Unless one makes decoy as heavy as warhead in which case, there is no point of decoy


War has decisive winners at the end.


We need not know the launch. Just trajectory is enough. By the way, detecting launch is easy as Pakistan is nearby


THAAD is for terminal phase only. The T in THAAD means terminal. How ca Japan intercept a misisle flying over 100km above? Also, NoKo has no oceanic space to test long range missiles due to geography and henc eit has to test it over Japan


Russia is strong due to heavy focus o defence. All smart people in Russia work in defence and hence it does not have any other industry but science and defence. India has large population and can get large number of intelligent people. Hence it can build better defence


Decoys are lighter than warhead. If decoys have same weight as warhead, then it is difficult. But with different weight, the deceleration will be different and that can be detected. Radars are capable of detecting speed


Marv was rejected by USA as that was said to reduce accuracy. the RV is having heat shield which can't detect any incoming radiowaves. So, merely relying on internal INS is a risky job. The miniaturised nature of warhead and the fact that they can rotate makes the INS system very difficult to place. So, MaRV is something that will be hard to use accurately. Very few countries use MaRV as a result.


The seeker on Indian AAD/PDV is RF seeker. It has sense of depth and speed. In addition, decoys are detected by ground radars much before the seeker detects it. The different speeds of deceleration due to different weight is easy to notice. If the decoys have same weight as the warhead, then the purpose of decoys are lost. Decoys are generally inflatable things which are low in density.

Decoys have different signature than actual warheads and also have lower speed due to lower weight and thus higher drag. It is automatic that the higher weight one is the warhead. Unless one makes decoy as heavy as warhead in which case, there is no point of decoy

So u think the speed of free falling object is proportional to it's weight that's agianst acceleration due to gravity Sonny
And which physics says that lighter object has higher drag ????
Drag is dependent on aerodynamics and surface features u can adjust it by changing em
my child
R u even matric pass
Please keep your ignorunt stupidity to your India and comment on missiles with little understanding of basic physics first

We know that BMD can't intercept everything. Your idea that you can bust a city with 3 nukes is laughable and retarded. Delhi alone will require 150 nukes to be hit hard and yet it will be less damage of Stalingrad after WW2. You don't have evidence to say that 3 nukes will work for a city but just farting around with fake news. Stop giving fake news and start speaking of real damage with experimental evidence.


That is a joke. Hiroshima and Nagasaki was rebuilt by 1960 itself. The number of victims of radioactivity was minimal. Japan did not even surrender for 25 days after the attack. They surrendered when USSR came to attack Japan. So much for radiation and nuclear bomb effect


GMD is not comparable to AAD/PDV. Compare THAAD and PAC-3 to PDV and AAD respectively. GMD intercepts mid course and that is a difficult thing Intercepting at terminal phase is easier.

No point of wasting time with an Indian ignorunt who believes it takes 150 nukes to destroy a single delhi

That's why India is most ignorant country in the world

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

There is a lot of nonsence sprouted by Indians that "they can intercept MIRV". No they can't. No one can. Some idiot even wrote MIRV is used for "saturation attacks". Not they are not. Thats MRV. Multiple Re entry Vehicles. Note the absence of the "I" in that. An MRV is like a single RV missile, only with multiple RV, like say 3 which are use in a pattern against a single target.

MIRV stands for multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle. It sends different RV to geographically spaced targets, not multiple RV onto the same target as people have been claiming.

This has implications for how its intercepted. A "normal" SRV or MRV carrying missile is launched on a trajectory which will take the missile to target. The defenders RADAR calculates the trajectory and sends an interceptor to shoot it down. Or them down in the case of MRV.

An MIRV does not work that way. Instead the rocket nose cone contains a "bus" which has a small motor and the multiple RV. Missile is launched and the bus seperates. It puts itself on a particular trajectory and releases an RV. It then fires its motor and shifts to a new trajectory to release the next RV. This continues until all warheads are released.

This makes the ground based systems job much harder and basically unfeasible. The defender does not know whats the actual target is until much later. Its not like say two missiles are launched and the defender can confidently say "ok, one Delhi the other Luckknow". He'll only know if either is a target as the RV begins its rentery reducing the envelop greatly.

Many Indians claim that "we have a midcourse interceptor, ha ha". Yeah, irelevant. Note what I said about the "bus" and shifting trajectory? So you see the bus on the RADAR and send an interceptor after it. Great. Except once it releases one RV its going to shift its trakectory and it won't be where the interceptor is going. And no you cannot simply "launch another one". A ground bases system has to go through the thick lower atmosphere and enter space this takes time.

There is no realistic way to have a useful defence against MIRV systems using ground based systems. Space based? Yes.

As I said, the MIRV is separated at the peak altitude and the radar can spot the changed trajectory and recalculate the entry point. The ballistic trajectory still is ballistic trajectory but that trajectory is changed at the top. So, by recalculating the trajectory, it is possible to intercept. I am speaking of MIRV only, not MRV. Radars are connected to computers which keeps computing.

Do research before you posting currently both of Hiroshima Nagasaki peoples giving a birth of mutated children, they are suffering leukemia, cancers and other related diseases @Vijyes Yechury

These rates were not higher than the normal rates. So, theory of nukes is busted. The stats of Hiroshima and Nagasaki says this, not my opinion.

but THAAD and PAC-3 , S-400 is still not used in battlefield, if US GMD have such low rate of intercept than you consider what the hit rate of THAAD, PAC-3, S-400 against sophisticated MRBM, IRBM @Vijyes Yechury

GMD is not deployed yet. PAC-3 and THAAD are already deployed. South Korea has THAAD, for example. GMD is not yet fully developed.

Decoys have different signature than actual warheads and also have lower speed due to lower weight and thus higher drag. It is automatic that the higher weight one is the warhead. Unless one makes decoy as heavy as warhead in which case, there is no point of decoy

So u think the speed of free falling object is proportional to it's weight that's agianst acceleration due to gravity Sonny
And which physics says that lighter object has higher drag ????
Drag is dependent on aerodynamics and surface features u can adjust it by changing em
my child
R u even matric pass
Please keep your ignorunt stupidity to your India and comment on missiles with little understanding of basic physics first

Stop this nonsense rant. I just forgot to write "drag deceleration". The drag is same but since deceleration depends on inverse of mass, the less dense item decelerates faster. Don't just exist to troll others. Frst understand that I am not writing thesis but only typing quickly. I can make some mistakes or skip a few words while typing. That does not mean you can write essays about that one mistake

No point of wasting time with an Indian ignorunt who believes it takes 150 nukes to destroy a single delhi

That's why India is most ignorant country in the world

DO you think that nuclear bomb is some magical device that will wipe out 1100 sq.km big delhi just by 1 bomb?

 

[khanmubashir]

As I said, the MIRV is separated at the peak altitude and the radar can spot the changed trajectory and recalculate the entry point. The ballistic trajectory still is ballistic trajectory but that trajectory is changed at the top. So, by recalculating the trajectory, it is possible to intercept. I am speaking of MIRV only, not MRV. Radars are connected to computers which keeps computing.


These rates were not higher than the normal rates. So, theory of nukes is busted. The stats of Hiroshima and Nagasaki says this, not my opinion.


GMD is not deployed yet. PAC-3 and THAAD are already deployed. South Korea has THAAD, for example. GMD is not yet fully developed.


Stop this nonsense rant. I just forgot to write "drag deceleration". The drag is same but since deceleration depends on inverse of mass, the less dense item decelerates faster. Don't just exist to troll others. Frst understand that I am not writing thesis but only typing quickly. I can make some mistakes or skip a few words while typing. That does not mean you can write essays about that one mistake


DO you think that nuclear bomb is some magical device that will wipe out 1100 sq.km big delhi just by 1 bomb?

Sonny u don't even know basic facts about matric level physics like drag and free falling which is acceleration due to gravity aren't dependent upon wight of object and u r yaping about missile and nukes

Keep your ignorunt stupidity to your India

 

[Ultima Thule]

These rates were not higher than the normal rates. So, theory of nukes is busted. The stats of Hiroshima and Nagasaki says this, not my opinion.

do research than talk @Vijyes Yechury

GMD is not deployed yet. PAC-3 and THAAD are already deployed. South Korea has THAAD, for example. GMD is not yet fully developed.

GMD is deployed in Alaska and California @Vijyes Yechury

 

[sparten]

As I said, the MIRV is separated at the peak altitude and the radar can spot the changed trajectory and recalculate the entry point. The ballistic trajectory still is ballistic trajectory but that trajectory is changed at the top. So, by recalculating the trajectory, it is possible to intercept. I am speaking of MIRV only, not MRV. Radars are connected to computers which keeps computing.

1) No MIRV are not released at peak trajectory. Unlike a normal ballistic missile where once the stages are exhausted the warhead follows a purely ballistic trajectory, powered flight continues in MIRV'd missiles until all RV are released. Release methods are different for differentr speeds. SS-18 used to release furthered first and the go down, while the US Peacekeeper released them almost all at once.

2) Recalculating trajectory for an inteceptor on the way, I had to giggle a little bit.
Firstly, its not the movies, missiles don't turn around and chase the target. If it moves, it means that the interceptor also has to move, exhausting its motor and losing energy due to both atmosphere and later gravituy losses. Seconldy and more importantly, g forces in a tracking turn are the square of speed. Lets say (made up numbers) the RV is moving at 0.6 mach and the interceptor is at Mach 3. If the RV turns at 9g then the interceptor has to do 225g to match the same radius. And in space, without an atmosphere using only the rocket motor.

Good luck.

 

[tarrar]

Just crap

 

[Fawadqasim1]

We know that BMD can't intercept everything. Your idea that you can bust a city with 3 nukes is laughable and retarded. Delhi alone will require 150 nukes to be hit hard and yet it will be less damage of Stalingrad after WW2. You don't have evidence to say that 3 nukes will work for a city but just farting around with fake news. Stop giving fake news and start speaking of real damage with experimental evidence.

knucklehead read my post carefully 1.5 megaton thermonuclear means 150 hiroshima bombs 3*150 means 450 hiroshima bombs the destruction will be such that you won't find anything in history to compare it with.

 

[HariPrasad]

In the coming decade, India will be able to make state of art BMD and Planes.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

Sonny u don't even know basic facts about matric level physics like drag and free falling which is acceleration due to gravity aren't dependent upon wight of object and u r yaping about missile and nukes

Keep your ignorunt stupidity to your India

I am speaking of deceleration by drag, not gravity. Are you saying that a plastic plate and iron plate will fall down at same speed or time? That is because of air drag or buoyancy based deceleration. Stop abusing others

do research than talk @Vijyes Yechury

I have made research and I am speaking from data. Here are some research material:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981260/
https://www.thehindu.com/2001/09/06/stories/08060003.htm

This settles the nonsense about radiation forever. Don't speak of radiation nonsense again

GMD is deployed in Alaska and California @Vijyes Yechury

India does not have GMD type system. Hence compareing GMD with Indian BMD is not correct

1) No MIRV are not released at peak trajectory. Unlike a normal ballistic missile where once the stages are exhausted the warhead follows a purely ballistic trajectory, powered flight continues in MIRV'd missiles until all RV are released. Release methods are different for differentr speeds. SS-18 used to release furthered first and the go down, while the US Peacekeeper released them almost all at once.

2) Recalculating trajectory for an inteceptor on the way, I had to giggle a little bit.
Firstly, its not the movies, missiles don't turn around and chase the target. If it moves, it means that the interceptor also has to move, exhausting its motor and losing energy due to both atmosphere and later gravituy losses. Seconldy and more importantly, g forces in a tracking turn are the square of speed. Lets say (made up numbers) the RV is moving at 0.6 mach and the interceptor is at Mach 3. If the RV turns at 9g then the interceptor has to do 225g to match the same radius. And in space, without an atmosphere using only the rocket motor.

Good luck.

The release happens far above the atmosphere. Hence, the interceptor is not yet fired. Even after release, there will be 1-2 minute to strike. The missile is fired only during that last 20-30 seconds of strike. So, recalculation is possible. 10 seconds of tracking is enough to determine the trajectory after release.

knucklehead read my post carefully 1.5 megaton thermonuclear means 150 hiroshima bombs 3*150 means 450 hiroshima bombs the destruction will be such that you won't find anything in history to compare it with.

That is just a myth. importantly. 1.5 megaton will require 1.5ton payload. This will be difficult for missiles and hence require bomber planes. Today's SAM will destroy all such bomber planes before they enter the border. So, 1.5MTon is difficult.

Also, the 1.5 MTon is not enough for today's construction quality and concretised buildings. Hiroshima's wooden bildings made people more vulnerble back then. The bomb is concentrated on one point and the energy is dissipated in cubic manner. So, the effect will only be cuberoot of it. 1000kT will be 10 times in radius compared to 1kT bomb for same effect. Also, the buildings, trees etc will stop a lot of the effect from spreading.

You may not have seen power of landslides or cyclones and hence speak these things. Landslides and cyclones cause so much of damage that these 1MT nukes appear nothing in comparison.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

I am speaking of deceleration by drag, not gravity. Are you saying that a plastic plate and iron plate will fall down at same speed or time? That is because of air drag or buoyancy based deceleration. Stop abusing others


I have made research and I am speaking from data. Here are some research material:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981260/
https://www.thehindu.com/2001/09/06/stories/08060003.htm

This settles the nonsense about radiation forever. Don't speak of radiation nonsense again


India does not have GMD type system. Hence compareing GMD with Indian BMD is not correct


The release happens far above the atmosphere. Hence, the interceptor is not yet fired. Even after release, there will be 1-2 minute to strike. The missile is fired only during that last 20-30 seconds of strike. So, recalculation is possible. 10 seconds of tracking is enough to determine the trajectory after release.


That is just a myth. importantly. 1.5 megaton will require 1.5ton payload. This will be difficult for missiles and hence require bomber planes. Today's SAM will destroy all such bomber planes before they enter the border. So, 1.5MTon is difficult.

Also, the 1.5 MTon is not enough for today's construction quality and concretised buildings. Hiroshima's wooden bildings made people more vulnerble back then. The bomb is concentrated on one point and the energy is dissipated in cubic manner. So, the effect will only be cuberoot of it. 1000kT will be 10 times in radius compared to 1kT bomb for same effect. Also, the buildings, trees etc will stop a lot of the effect from spreading.

You may not have seen power of landslides or cyclones and hence speak these things. Landslides and cyclones cause so much of damage that these 1MT nukes appear nothing in comparison.

You have made mad and wrong research knucklehead

 

[Ultima Thule]

I have made research and I am speaking from data. Here are some research material:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4981260/
https://www.thehindu.com/2001/09/06/stories/08060003.htm

This settles the nonsense about radiation forever. Don't speak of radiation nonsense again

Both your links says its classified @Vijyes Yechury
and you brain utter nonsense @Vijyes Yechury

India does not have GMD type system. Hence compareing GMD with Indian BMD is not correct

but india have to be because your main enemy China have an ICBM for you @Vijyes Yechury