India’s bid for ‘second strike capability’ to put pressure on Pakistan, says SPD official

[The Deterrent]

They are two ways to fire a missile from a torpedo tube.

One is to fire cannister containing the missile from torpedo tube. Once cannister breaks the water surface.. Rocket motor fires and takes the missile away..like harpoon does.

Second is to fire the missile with wings and inlet folded with an additional booster..Booster makes the missile break the surface.. Which is when rocket moto fire and wings unfold and air inlet drops down...like Tomahawk does.

Now a standard 21 inch torpedo tube is 533 mm in diameter and 20 feet in length.

Now problem with Babur is..it is 520 mm in diameter and 22 feet( it is longer than Tomahawk w) in length with additional booster.
So if an additional cannister is added to the missile.. It will not fit the 533 mm torpedo tube.

And if an additional booster is added.. Then it wont fit the torpedo tube length wise.

Haven't I made it obvious, that Babur in its present form can not be fired from Submarine.

It will have to be significantly modified, and any missile which is modified, will have to be tested rigorously again.

That js why, i have hundred percent conviction, Pakistan does not have a Babur SLCM, as it has never been tested.

You are going to feel so sorry for yourself soon. Please, for your own reputation's sake, consider that the people developing these systems do their research pretty well. What do you think, they'll do all the R&D, bring the weapon in the submarine and go like "Damn, did nobody check the length of the torpedo tube?"

Common sense also dictates it wasn't a SLCM, as Pakistan did not have a Harpoon SLCM.

Pakistan does have Harpoon SLCM, Amreeki chankana check karnay aye thay PN submarine ammunition stocks main?

 

[CHI RULES]

Boys....

Attacking Civilian Targets is a Crime Under Geneva Convention & Pakistan is Signatory to the same........
Think before you Make a "Retort"

The impact of Atomic Missiles can't be limitised pls u should check first.

 

[Photon]

You are going to feel so sorry for yourself soon. Please, for your own reputation's sake, consider that the people developing these systems do their research pretty well. What do you think, they'll do all the R&D, bring the weapon in the submarine and go like "Damn, did nobody check the length of the torpedo tube?"


Pakistan does have Harpoon SLCM, Amreeki chankana check karnay aye thay PN submarine ammunition stocks main?

Firstly Pakistan ordered harpoon missiles two versions of Hapoons.

30 AGM 89s for it P-3c Orions and
50 RGM 89s for its Surface fleets.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-$370m-deal-for-harpoon-missiles-(jun-2).html

Pakistan's Agosta 70 and 90 subs use SM-39 exocet missiles.

Secondly, I am sure they do their research well, but when Babur was developed , it was developed as a SSM, that is why it is longer than Tomahawk missile and can not fit the standard 20 feet torpedo tube.

In future if it Babur is modified for Submarine use , it is a different story.

 

[Alphacharlie]

The impact of Atomic Missiles can't be limitised pls u should check first.

Boy---

Seeing your Comment it is certain your are 18 Year Old Boy....
Under Heavy influence of Chi Gurvara....

Nuclear Weapons are not Quoted the WAY your Leaders do or you have Been Taught.
Russians and YANKs were 10 times more Aggressive than your and my Nation. Still they never made such Popsicle Claim(S).

I would have appreciated, you would have reverted by stating Our Mirages or Cruise Missiles will Break your Dams, Thermal Power Generation Plants, High Ways and Railway tracks --- This is ample of Damage to an ECONOMY.

PS - Think before you Retort.

 

[باپ]

Whole India is not required. 1 nuke can seriously deteriorate world climate, radiation is sure to spread around effecting neighborhood areas. acid rains, steep decline in world food supply. Most of all, no one says there will only be 1 exchange from any side but multiple. Moreover world powers might end both countries as well before they create a crater too deep.

The earth gets far more radiation in a solar storm than all the nuclear weapons combined .

 

[manojb]

On the other hand we have yet to see Indian Missile tests from actual deployed TELs not the rail mobile at wheeler island.
For example here are some Pakistani missiles being tested from TEL.


iNDIAN MEMBERS CAN POST SOME PICS OF THEIR MISSILES BEING FIRED FROM TEL?

http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/sitepix/05_2014/fig-ii---agni-v.jpg

 

[Strigon]

The earth gets far more radiation in a solar storm than all the nuclear weapons combined .

Which is filtered by the ozone layer and magnetic field shielding from the dangerous radiation back and giving us sunlight and a nice display of lights called Auroras/ Northern Lights in Arctic and Antarctica.

At times when the solar storm is strong enough you can experience minor damage such as skin burns and interruption in electricity.

A reason why people cry about climate change due to CO2 emissions is that it keeps thinning out Ozone layer. When some holes in it do form radiation escapes into the earth causing dire effects. A nuke battle will accelerate this process 1000 times weakening Ozone layer so much that no country will be safe from harmful radiation. Along with acid rains, inhabit able land, food shortage, mutations etc.

 

[risingsinga]

Which is filtered by the ozone layer and magnetic field shielding from the dangerous radiation back and giving us sunlight and a nice display of lights called Auroras/ Northern Lights in Arctic and Antarctica.

At times when the solar storm is strong enough you can experience minor damage such as skin burns and interruption in electricity.

A reason why people cry about climate change due to CO2 emissions is that it keeps thinning out Ozone layer. When some holes in it do form radiation escapes into the earth causing dire effects. A nuke battle will accelerate this process 1000 times weakening Ozone layer so much that no country will be safe from harmful radiation. Along with acid rains, inhabit able land, food shortage, mutations etc.

In addition, to that if a lot of nuclear bombs are exploded in a short span of time, it will cause a huge cloud of radioactive material and radiations will be spread far and wide.

 

[The Deterrent]

Firstly Pakistan ordered harpoon missiles two versions of Hapoons.

30 AGM 89s for it P-3c Orions and
50 RGM 89s for its Surface fleets.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...-$370m-deal-for-harpoon-missiles-(jun-2).html

Pakistan's Agosta 70 and 90 subs use SM-39 exocet missiles.

This deal is newer, PN acquired Harpoons for Agosta-70s long before, dig deeper you'll find it.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/hashmat.htm

Secondly, I am sure they do their research well, but when Babur was developed , it was developed as a SSM, that is why it is longer than Tomahawk missile and can not fit the standard 20 feet torpedo tube.

In future if it Babur is modified for Submarine use , it is a different story.

The "future" has come and gone, and the "different" story is very real my friend.

 

[Photon]

These deal is newer, PN acquired Harpoons for Agosta-70s, dig deeper you'll find it.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/hashmat.htm


The "future" has come and gone, and the "different" story is very real my friend.

So you are saying, there is already a SLCM version of Babur in existence?

Where is it?

 

[The Deterrent]

So you are saying, there is already a SLCM version of Babur in existence?

Where is it?

I believe I do not have the authority to answer about the specific whereabouts of the system (might give you a peek of my garage though).

It is rumored to be in final stages of development, but you may disagree with the authenticity of these rumors. Cheers.

 

[Photon]

I believe I do not have the authority to answer about the specific whereabouts of the system (might give you a peek of my garage though).

It is rumored to be in final stages of development, but you may disagree with the authenticity of these rumors. Cheers.

See, thats the thing about rumors, one can not make sweeping statements based on them, because well they are rumors.

I would be ready to believe, when you have something concrete.

 

[Faiez]

not quite. An "assured" second strike capability is ability to strike back the enemy even after the enemy has hit you at all your land based nuclear installations.
The thinking is that you annihilate all the nuclear sites as well as economic centers of a country so they wont be able to strike back (at least not immediately) and hence you are assured of victory.
A submarine is hard to detect and hit and so a nuclear tipped missile from those are something you will need to factor in for an attack.
Its not impossible to try and strike a sub. It just very difficult and time/resource consuming process. It makes the first nuclear strike a whole lot more expensive and risky.

Well Said !

 

[vizier]

The purchase of cm capable subs from China is a good start. However be sure that there will be pressure on China to delay or not finalize by some countries for reasons to not to make Pakistan get second strike capability unlike India to preserve first strike option against you.

There should be ways to find alternative methods granting you immediate 2nd strike or within a short term.

One option is launching bms cms from warships which you possibly have that option already.Yes warships are vulnurable but so are subs and planes. Neverthless it will be deterrant and protect from a surprise 1st strike combined with good early warning radars.
Cms have relatively short range than bms so you need to get warship bm capability asap.

Another option is to use cargo ship. Load ballistic missile trucks inside. Long range 2nd strike happens when trucks are unloaded from the shore.Simple and immediate but disadventage is it needs escort ships for protection.

Another thing that comes up to my mind is floating stabilised towed platforms to launch cms or even bms. In ww2 there were projects to launch v2 bms towed by subs. It takes water inside to erect the bm to launch position from surface.cms would be easier to launch since it can correct its path and maneuver more easily despite the disdvantage of range compared to bms. Floating platform has lower radar profile than any ship and no engine so no noise to be detected by subs. But it can require escort ships or subs nearby to protect nuclear assets.There should be modern variants of these types of platforms as well imo used by countries like Russia or Usa.

 

[Tom M]

Are we really MAD ??