Indian Special Forces

[RepublicOk]

I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.

NSG was used to clear up the mess after the Garuds failed to foil the infiltration attempt and didn't take the lead in the main operation.
Western airbases were in high alert leading up to the Pathankot attack and Garuds were ineffective.
Some blame the sarkari babus in Delhi for messing up the follow up operation( picking NSG and lack of faith in other special units aka Garud in this case ) and some say it was in residential area of airbase so NSG was used, but the fact remains that there was advanced intelligence and base should have been well protected and Garuds on standby in such events.

Some analysts argue that Garuds based in Pathankot would have a better idea of the base layout and would have been the most effective to take on the Pathankot attackers but yet government didn't give them the lead.

Some people are really annoyed at this. There are chatters in defence circles about this event.

 

[cerberus]

I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.

Reputation Is Zero Relevance In Actual combat You cannot Judge Performance Of Operatives on Single failure

If that's the case SAS has compromised by bunch of Farmers in Libya Which Acquired Global Attention

 

[RepublicOk]

Reputation Is Zero Relevance In Actual combat You cannot Judge Performance Of Operatives on Single failure

If that's the case SAS has compromised by bunch of Farmers in Libya Which Acquired Global Attention

I agree.
And I am not personally judging the Garuds.
I am just highlighting the the discussions going on in some circles about the handling of the Pathankot operation.

 

[mkb95]

Reputation Is Zero Relevance In Actual combat You cannot Judge Performance Of Operatives on Single failure

since when did pathankot became a failure?
time is not a deciding factor.not by a big margin.
our every asset was secured and no civilian life was lost.
that success in every book.

 

[cerberus]

since when did pathankot became a failure?
time is not a deciding factor.not by a big margin.
our every asset was secured and no civilian life was lost.
that success in every book.

Read My Post again Mate
I m only Answering A Particular Perspective

I agree.
And I am not personally judging the Garuds.
I am just highlighting the the discussions going on in some circles about the handling of the Pathankot operation.

It Only Happens In Media Circles Nowadays.

 

[Avyator]

since when did pathankot became a failure?
time is not a deciding factor.not by a big margin.
our every asset was secured and no civilian life was lost.
that success in every book.

Mehh, Pathankot may or may not have been a failure but it definitely was not a success to be proud of. They had advanced information and the base was still infiltrated, quite a few casualties were sustained, and it took multiple days to flush everyone out. The whole operation gave off the air of sloppy handling and incompetence.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.

NSG was used to clear up the mess after the Garuds failed to foil the infiltration attempt and didn't take the lead in the main operation.
Western airbases were in high alert leading up to the Pathankot attack and Garuds were ineffective.
Some blame the sarkari babus in Delhi for messing up the follow up operation( picking NSG and lack of faith in other special units aka Garud in this case ) and some say it was in residential area of airbase so NSG was used, but the fact remains that there was advanced intelligence and base should have been well protected and Garuds on standby in such events.

Some analysts argue that Garuds based in Pathankot would have a better idea of the base layout and would have been the most effective to take on the Pathankot attackers but yet government didn't give them the lead.

Some people are really annoyed at this. There are chatters in defence circles about this event.

1) It has been explained to death why the NSG was called in; the risk to the 1000s of families in the residential portions of the base was signifcant and thus India's premier hostage rescue force was called in.
2) The decsion to deploy the NSG was a joint one (made in cordination with the IA and IAF)
3) The Garuds were the FIRST unit to engage and most importantly CORNER the terrorists. The feirce resistence they gave ensured that ALL civilians and strategic assets were safeguarded. They completed their breif to the letter, where is the failure in that?
4) All operational objectives were acheived by the NSG/IAF; no loss of civilian life, no loss of strategic assets, all terrorists killed.
5) The remark about having more Garuds to protect Pathankot indicates that you do not understand how the Garuds work or what they are. The Garuds are NOT base security, they simply protect certain strategic installations but their primary roles are CSAR, FAC and other SOF duties. Pathankot had seen a Garud team brought in in the wake of general threats to military assets in that area BUT the base is vast and there were other assets (like the nearby IA base) that were also likely targets. As mentioned above, the Garuds did their job- they protected the base and its assets.


It is simply illogical to make the statements you have and I seriosuly doubt anyone in the defence community that actually knows how the situation unfolded has any issues with how they were handled, the op was a total success.

Mehh, Pathankot may or may not have been a failure but it definitely was not a success to be proud of. They had advanced information and the base was still infiltrated, quite a few casualties were sustained, and it took multiple days to flush everyone out. The whole operation gave off the air of sloppy handling and incompetence.

By any measure the operation was a complete success, if one wants to bring in arbitrary metrics (such as duration or kill ratios) to satisfy their own drive to term any such thing as a failure then so be it.

 

[Avyator]

1) It has been explained to death why the NSG was called in; the risk to the 1000s of families in the residential portions of the base was signifcant and thus India's premier hostage rescue force was called in.
2) The decsion to deploy the NSG was a joint one (made in cordination with the IA and IAF)
3) The Garuds were the FIRST unit to engage and most importantly CORNER the terrorists. The feirce resistence they gave ensured that ALL civilians and strategic assets were safeguarded. They completed their breif to the letter, where is the failure in that?
4) All operational objectives were acheived by the NSG/IAF; no loss of civilian life, no loss of strategic assets, all terrorists killed.
5) The remark about having more Garuds to protect Pathankot indicates that you do not understand how the Garuds work or what they are. The Garuds are NOT base security, they simply protect certain strategic installations but their primary roles are CSAR, FAC and other SOF duties. Pathankot had seen a Garud team brought in in the wake of general threats to military assets in that area BUT the base is vast and there were other assets (like the nearby IA base) that were also likely targets. As mentioned above, the Garuds did their job- they protected the base and its assets.


It is simply illogical to make the statements you have and I seriosuly doubt anyone in the defence community that actually knows how the situation unfolded has any issues with how they were handled, the op was a total success.


By any measure the operation was a complete success, if one wants to bring in arbitrary metrics (such as duration or kill ratios) to satisfy their own drive to term any such thing as a failure then so be it.

You seriously think it was a massive 100% success to be proud about? I personally found it to be embarrassing that things went that far after we had information about it before the fact. But not only did we fail to prevent it, by most accounts it was handled quite sloppily.

But this is a typical problem with a lot of Indians, any sort of self criticism gets quickly shut down, and as we saw, when you don't do enough hard introspection after something, you get repeats.

 

[mkb95]

NSG Commandos from Mumbai Regional Hub drill with Force One unit

 

[RepublicOk]

1) It has been explained to death why the NSG was called in; the risk to the 1000s of families in the residential portions of the base was signifcant and thus India's premier hostage rescue force was called in.
2) The decsion to deploy the NSG was a joint one (made in cordination with the IA and IAF)
3) The Garuds were the FIRST unit to engage and most importantly CORNER the terrorists. The feirce resistence they gave ensured that ALL civilians and strategic assets were safeguarded. They completed their breif to the letter, where is the failure in that?
4) All operational objectives were acheived by the NSG/IAF; no loss of civilian life, no loss of strategic assets, all terrorists killed.
5) The remark about having more Garuds to protect Pathankot indicates that you do not understand how the Garuds work or what they are. The Garuds are NOT base security, they simply protect certain strategic installations but their primary roles are CSAR, FAC and other SOF duties. Pathankot had seen a Garud team brought in in the wake of general threats to military assets in that area BUT the base is vast and there were other assets (like the nearby IA base) that were also likely targets. As mentioned above, the Garuds did their job- they protected the base and its assets.


It is simply illogical to make the statements you have and I seriosuly doubt anyone in the defence community that actually knows how the situation unfolded has any issues with how they were handled, the op was a total success.


By any measure the operation was a complete success, if one wants to bring in arbitrary metrics (such as duration or kill ratios) to satisfy their own drive to term any such thing as a failure then so be it.

Hmm. Your post clarifies alot of the hot air around the handling of the Pathankot operation.

 

[mkb95]

9 para

 

[damiendehorn]

View attachment 343847
Garud Commando , Army Jawans And Sri Lankan Soldiers. May be few from Bangladesh also.

Nope no Bangladeshis......

 

[mkb95]

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I think Garud's reputation took a hit after the Pathankot attack.

NSG was used to clear up the mess after the Garuds failed to foil the infiltration attempt and didn't take the lead in the main operation.
Western airbases were in high alert leading up to the Pathankot attack and Garuds were ineffective.
Some blame the sarkari babus in Delhi for messing up the follow up operation( picking NSG and lack of faith in other special units aka Garud in this case ) and some say it was in residential area of airbase so NSG was used, but the fact remains that there was advanced intelligence and base should have been well protected and Garuds on standby in such events.

Some analysts argue that Garuds based in Pathankot would have a better idea of the base layout and would have been the most effective to take on the Pathankot attackers but yet government didn't give them the lead.

Some people are really annoyed at this. There are chatters in defence circles about this event.

My take:-

Pathankot operation a success or failure?Depends on what the question is..

If the question is was the Air base saved?..Yes and no causalities of family members unlike Kaluchak attack.

If the question is about the performance of Garud?..Total failure in my eyes.

SF is not raised or trained to go in a 1 on 1 firefight with terrorists and to be pinned down.

The question of Garud leading the operation is a joke or what?

Firstly, after being pinned down how can they be trusted to lead.

Secondly,Do you think Garud is capable of leading NSG???I am sorry i dont think so..not in experience..not in technique.

The only thing which is questionable is why none of the 5 or 6 PARA SF Units in 500 km arc were not called.

I dont believe this bs that Para SF is not as capable of hostage rescue because guess what who has done more hostage recue ops in the valley..The last time the NSG was in the valley for hostage rescue was in mid 90s.

 

[mkb95]