Indian air force "pilots" had a very low flying hours in 1990s

[Azam-e-Nau]

Tell me one thing. Is history irrelevant to you? Should schools and university burn their history books because all it teaches is the things of 500-3000 years ago?

Good point,


Pakistan Zindabad, Walaykum As-Salam

 

[KS]

Guys is there anything useful at all in discussing this now...Does this have any relevance in the current Indo -Pak scenario..?
I think NO..

nd Mr.Growler..can u provide the related stats for PAF..?

 

[sohan]

This could be related to the large number of crashes.

 

[Azam-e-Nau]

Guys is there anything useful at all in discussing this now...Does this have any relevance in the current Indo -Pak scenario..?
I think NO..

nd Mr.Growler..can u provide the related stats for PAF..?

This Discussion started as a well-off manner, not as an Argument or dispute. Yes, there is useful knowledge in this discussion, and in fact, it is quite relevant in today’s world, history plays a major role wherever you may be. It doesn't have to be something which has happened currently or recent by post, all which matter's is what we acquire from these discussions.


Pakistan Zindabad, Walaykum As-Salam

 

[Marxist]

this shows training in 1997,but still our pilots performed good during kargil war (1999)(with less training).....

 

[deckingraj]

Guys is there anything useful at all in discussing this now...Does this have any relevance in the current Indo -Pak scenario..?
I think NO..

nd Mr.Growler..can u provide the related stats for PAF..?

Hey Karthic it is of utmost importance to talk about history and compare it with your present...This gives you an inclination about how wrong/good we were as compared to now...

If Growler's findings are true then our next steps should be to find out what was the hours that were being clocked by our counterparts(Read Pakistan and China)...This would be a good way of finding out if we were ill-prepared as per our threat perception...


In india we have a long history of ignoring/neglecting our defence and our Armed forces have to pay it by there lives....I do not see any reason for Indians ot be sensitive about it...Nehru's neglect of defence resulted in 1962 shame.... Kargil was another eye-opener.... I would encourage people who have knowledge regarding this subject to share their thoughts...


If indeed IAF pilots had paltry ~100 hours worth training hours then it just reflects the lethargic way our defence used to be treated...And if the latest hours are any where close to ~200 then it just shows how far we have come....

 

[deckingraj]

this shows training in 1997,but still our pilots performed good during kargil war (with less training).....

Doesn't mean anything.....Question is were our pilots less trained then our adversaries?? If yes then GOI played with national defence and should be unequiocally condemned

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Guys is there anything useful at all in discussing this now...Does this have any relevance in the current Indo -Pak scenario..?
I think NO..

nd Mr.Growler..can u provide the related stats for PAF..?

Sure.

LINK
Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat
He spoke to Jane's shortly before his retirement on 20 March, when Air Marshal Tanveer Ahmad Khan assumed the top post.


"In 2000, our flying per pilot was in the region of nine hours per month. We have progressively taken this up to 15 hours, or 15 sorties," he said, adding that the figure has now stabilised.


Thats 110 hours per average pilot during 90s despite the fact PAF was under heavy US French Sanctions and lacked spare parts. Even so PAF mainly operated 2.5th 3rd generation aircrafts where as IAF operated 3 3.5 and 4th generation aircrafts.


LINK
A three-member delegation of Pratt & Whitney called on Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, Chief of the Air Staff Pakistan Air Force at Air Headquarters to present a plaque to the Chief of the Air Staff in recognition of flying the F-16, for over 100,000 accident-free flight hours.

excluding 2009 PAF F-16 crash, the last one to crash was in 1994. the 100,000 accident free flight hours was achieved in the period of 11 years (1994-2005) with 26-28 operational F-16s. That translates to 350 flying hours per F-16 in a year. Despite the fact during 90s decade USA had cut off F-16 spare parts supply and PAF had to cut down its flying hours.
So during 1990s PAF F-16 pilots roughly flew 180 hours a year. Today it flys alot more.
Here is rtd PAF pilot x_man.

The life cycle of an active flying career in PAF spans around 18 years, i.e. it begins from a year before graduation up to one completes tenure of squadron commander. After commanding the squadron, flying goes in the background and staff appointments/desk jobs take the lead until one retires from the service.

So in 18 years of active flying career, a fighter pilot flies an average of 15 to 20 hours each month. If you take out weekends/holidays, bad weather and maintenance days from a month, the average number of days available for flying in a month are also 20. So a pilot flies almost an hour a day in a month. I would say that it’s a very healthy dose of flying. This translates into a yearly average flying of almost 220 hours. Like many airforces in the world, PAF pilots get a very good amount of flying despite that we have older aircrafts.

Transport pilots get much more flying than fighter guys. Let’s say that a C-130 pilot on a return Islamabad-Karachi trip will log 5 hours in a day. Whereas an F-7 pilot whose average sortie time is 45minutes will need to fly around 6 mission to make 5 hours of flying.

Similarly the pilots who do an instructional tour at Academy can fly as much as they actually can. People have been logging 80 to 90 hours of flying in a month ...its crazy flying there...

As for the overall PAF flying / year...well I would say that its well over 70,000 hours...rest is anyone’s guess..can’t give you exact figure because i dont know myself..

 

[Myth_buster_1]

this shows training in 1997,but still our pilots performed good during kargil war (1999)(with less training).....

Dropping LGBs from high altitude is not a feat where their is no threat to the aircraft.

 

[KS]

That low man hours may be partially due to the fact that there was a shortage of spare parts after the dissolution of the USSR,,crashes of the Migs etc..So we too had our reasons for it.

But the most important thing is wats the status now..?
nd how does that compare to the others(especially China nd Pak).?

 

[Azam-e-Nau]

But the most important thing is wats the status now..?

Indeed, you are correct, what matters is what's situation today, but our Past also matters, don't just discard the past, and nor get rid of it. but take lessons from it, and thats what the thread is all about.


Pakistan Zindabad, Walaykum As-Salam

 

[Myth_buster_1]

That low man hours may be partially due to the fact that there was a shortage of spare parts after the dissolution of the USSR,,crashes of the Migs etc..So we too had our reasons for it.
But the most important thing is wats the status now..?
nd how does that compare to the others(especially China nd Pak).?

Dissolution of USSR was not even the problem other wise the SU-30 project would have been effected the most. btw USSR collapsed 6 years before 1997.

 

[Paksindhi]

I dont blame indian pilots , who wants to fly coffin's

 

[Contrarian]

Dissolution of USSR was not even the problem other wise the SU-30 project would have been effected the most. btw USSR collapsed 6 years before 1997.

There was indeed a problem in spare parts for other planes. The situation had become so desperate that MoD had to order spares from ex-Soviet countries(not Russia)-which had VERY doubtful quality control. There were tons of issues that time.

MKI was being financed by India and being produced for both India AND China.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

There was indeed a problem in spare parts for other planes. The situation had become so desperate that MoD had to order spares from ex-Soviet countries(not Russia)-which had VERY doubtful quality control. There were tons of issues that time.

Why would Russia refuse to supply spare parts? As far as I know most of the Mig-21 were built in India in their own assembly plants. The issue was with Indian spare parts quality control which resulted in many crashes and India blamed Russia for the aircraft design while Russia blamed India for the low qualities of parts.
Pakistan relied much much more on foreigner support for spare parts while India was building most of them at home under TOT.

MKI was being financed by India and being produced for both India AND China.

Why would India be facing spare problem in the same scale as Pakistan during the 90s?