India will never be as successful as China in economy

[kankan326]

If the world is a video game, China chose “hard" game level from beginning. India chose "easy" game level. India gained independence by peaceful power delivery from British. China fulfilled its independence from bloody wars. Got rid of Japanese empire control by 14 years second Sino-Japan war. Got rid of US indirect control (KMT government) by 3 years civil war. Got rid of Soviet Union control by Korea war.

CCP's China was born and grew in wars. Of course China suffered huge lives and property loss. But this model also benefited China a lot. Established a strong central government which was free from big powers' influence. Land reform and industries nationalization were smoothly accomplished. Land lords and upper classes disappeared in China. Women were liberated. Superstitious and conservative cultures were abandoned. In a word, China's old system was completely formatted. China was running in a new and neat system. The opposite of China, is India. Today's Indian social structure is not so much different than 1947's. With democracy together formed all obstacles to prevent any change and reform.

China is like Jupiter. India is like Earth. Jupiter on the one hand dwarfs Earth. On the other hand protects Earth from asteroids attacks by absorbing most collisions to itself. PRC was facing a very harsh international environment from the first day it was established. Embargoes from west world and then from east world. Nuclear war threats from both US and Soviet Union. To prepare for war, China moved its most important industries to innerland mountain regions. Because of China's existence, India enjoyed a very cosy environment. It became friend of both US and Soviet Union during cold war. China was in "hell" mode game level in the middle stage of world game. India was still in "easy" mode.

In order to survive, China never stop attempting changes. Great leap forward, cultural revolution, reform and opening, big laid off. Some attempts are not good from hindsight perspective to say. Overall China is moving forward. Meanwhile in India, change could not even happen. Talking about China reform and opening policy, many Indians have a misunderstanding that it was US and its allies that helped China to make all progresses. Wrong. Different from how US helped Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, US never transferred any crucial technology to PRC. The biggest investment sources for China are Hongkong, Taiwan, Singapore. What the west benefited China is a free and relatively fair environment for business and competition. China learned and grew in it. So Indians, who are longing for west production chains transferred from China, should not hold high hope for the transfer. It won't help you much. India already has the key to the success door that China tried hard to have. The free and fair international environment. And obviously China is losing it because US now sees China as an enemy. In the new stage of world game, China is in "hard" mode. India is in "easy" mode, as always it was.

Birds living in harsh environment are cleverer. The CCP government is very smart, sophisticate, patient. It has the ability of self-restraint and keeping low profile. Compared to Chinese government, Indian government is like a spoiled, impulsive, cocky kid. When US government kidnapped Huawei CFO and madly sanctioned Chinese companies, Chinese government never made trouble to American investments in China. By contrast Indian government constantly robbed/banned Chinese investments in India since 2020 border conflict.

I saw many Indians said India is 20 years later than China to adopt opening policy. India will get to where China is today 20 years later. Indians believe China's success is a thing naturally to happen. They attributed China's achievements to west investments(Which India will have) and China's huge population(Which India already has). Indians forgot China and India chose different paths from the first day. They ignored all the pains and suffers China underwent on the path. No pain, no gain. It also works for India. Hypothetically to say, if India reaches to half of China's economy(Which I doubt), India would for the first time face hits from used to be nice America. Will spoiled Indians and their government be able to handle the "not easy" mode by then? I don't think so.

 

[Sinnerman108]

NO country can be as successful as China;
and the differentiating factor is not planning, education or anything else,

It is the single party system, that is much more efficient than western democracy model.

 

[nahtanbob]

If the world is a video game, China chose “hard" game level from beginning. India chose "easy" game level. India gained independence by peaceful power delivery from British. China fulfilled its independence from bloody wars. Got rid of Japanese empire control by 14 years second Sino-Japan war. Got rid of US indirect control (KMT government) by 3 years civil war. Got rid of Soviet Union control by Korea war.

CCP's China was born and grew in wars. Of course China suffered huge lives and property loss. But this model also benefited China a lot . Established a strong central government which was free from big powers' influence. Land reform and industries nationalization were smoothly accomplished. Land lords and upper classes disappeared in China. Women were liberated. Superstitious and conservative cultures were abandoned. In a word, China's old system was completely formatted. China was running in a new and neat system. The opposite of China, is India. Today's Indian social structure is not so much different than 1947's. With democracy together formed all obstacles to prevent any change and reform.

China is like Jupiter. India is like earth. Jupiter on the one hand dwarfs earth. On the other hand protects earth from asteroids attacks by absorbing most collisions to itself. PRC was facing a very harsh international environment from the first day it was established. Embargoes from west world and then from east world. Nuclear war threats from both US and Soviet Union. To prepare war, China moved its most important industries to innerland mountain regions. Because of China's existence, India enjoyed a very cosy environment. It became friend of both US and Soviet Union during cold war. China was in "hell" mode game level in the middle stage of world game. India was still in "easy" mode.

In order to survive, China never stop attempting changes. Great leap forward, cultural revolution, reform and opening, big laid off. Some attempts are not good from hindsight perspective to say. Overall China is moving forward. Meanwhile in India, change could not even happen. Talking about China reform and opening policy, many Indians have a misunderstanding that it was US and its allies that helped China to make all progresses. Wrong. Unlike Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, US never transferred any crucial technology to PRC. The biggest investment sources for China are Hongkong, Taiwan, Singapore. What the west benefited China is a free and relatively fair environment for business and competition. China learned and grew in it. So Indians, who are longing for west production chains transferred from China, should not hold high hope for the transfer. It won't help you much. India already has the key to the success door that China tried hard to have. The free and fair international environment. And obviously China is losing it because US now sees China as an enemy. In the new stage of world game, China is "hard" mode. India is in "easy" mode, as always it is.

Birds living in harsh environment is cleverer. The CCP government is very smart, sophisticate, patient. It has the ability of self-restraint and keeping low profile. Compared to Chinese government, Indian government is like a spoiled, Impulsive, cocky kid. When US government kidnapped Huawei CFO and madly sanctioned Chinese companies, Chinese government never made trouble to American investments in China. By contrast Indian government constantly robbed/banned Chinese investments in India since 2020 border conflict.

I saw many Indians said India is 20 year later than China to adopt opening policy. India wil get to where China is today 20 years later. Indians believe China's success is a thing naturally to happen. They attributed China's achievements to west investments(Which India will have) and China's huge population(Which India already has). Indians forgot China and India chose different paths from the first day. They ignored all the pains and suffers China underwent on the path. No pain, no gain. It also works for India. Hypothetically to say, if India reach to half of China's economy(Which I doubt), India would for the first time face hits from used to be nice America, can spoiled Indians and their government handle the "not easy" mode? I don't think so.

Can the chinese model be replicated elsewhere ? otherwise isn't this whole discussion a moot point ?

 

[REhorror]

Never say never.
The americans say it to the japanese.
The japanese said it to the korean.
The korean said it to the chinese.

Repeat.

 

[kankan326]

Never say never.
The americans say it to the japanese.
The japanese said it to the korean.
The korean said it to the chinese.

Repeat.

Different this time. Japanese and S.Korea are small countries. And they are under US control. US doesn't worry too much when transfers technologies to them. China and India are big countries. Difficult to gain technologies from west. Let alone it is China that is holding most industries chains today, not the west. China and India don't get along well.

Can the chinese model be replicated elsewhere ? otherwise isn't this whole discussion a moot point ?

China's model is not the only path. India can make some progresses but not to China's level.

 

[-=virus=-]

Too many moving parts in a "Democracy" .. its a beauty in many senses but very high maintenance, too many weak points.. despite how good it presented as.

Authoritarian one party systems, with a few adjustments.. and very few are needed in China due to their cultural homogeneity, will always beat out and be more efficient than a messy place like India with all sorts of different groups wanting all sorts of vastly varying and sometimes conflicting demands.

 

[Chat SAMOSA]

If the world is a video game, China chose “hard" game level from beginning. India chose "easy" game level. India gained independence by peaceful power delivery from British. China fulfilled its independence from bloody wars. Got rid of Japanese empire control by 14 years second Sino-Japan war. Got rid of US indirect control (KMT government) by 3 years civil war. Got rid of Soviet Union control by Korea war.

CCP's China was born and grew in wars. Of course China suffered huge lives and property loss. But this model also benefited China a lot . Established a strong central government which was free from big powers' influence. Land reform and industries nationalization were smoothly accomplished. Land lords and upper classes disappeared in China. Women were liberated. Superstitious and conservative cultures were abandoned. In a word, China's old system was completely formatted. China was running in a new and neat system. The opposite of China, is India. Today's Indian social structure is not so much different than 1947's. With democracy together formed all obstacles to prevent any change and reform.

China is like Jupiter. India is like earth. Jupiter on the one hand dwarfs earth. On the other hand protects earth from asteroids attacks by absorbing most collisions to itself. PRC was facing a very harsh international environment from the first day it was established. Embargoes from west world and then from east world. Nuclear war threats from both US and Soviet Union. To prepare war, China moved its most important industries to innerland mountain regions. Because of China's existence, India enjoyed a very cosy environment. It became friend of both US and Soviet Union during cold war. China was in "hell" mode game level in the middle stage of world game. India was still in "easy" mode.

In order to survive, China never stop attempting changes. Great leap forward, cultural revolution, reform and opening, big laid off. Some attempts are not good from hindsight perspective to say. Overall China is moving forward. Meanwhile in India, change could not even happen. Talking about China reform and opening policy, many Indians have a misunderstanding that it was US and its allies that helped China to make all progresses. Wrong. Unlike Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan, US never transferred any crucial technology to PRC. The biggest investment sources for China are Hongkong, Taiwan, Singapore. What the west benefited China is a free and relatively fair environment for business and competition. China learned and grew in it. So Indians, who are longing for west production chains transferred from China, should not hold high hope for the transfer. It won't help you much. India already has the key to the success door that China tried hard to have. The free and fair international environment. And obviously China is losing it because US now sees China as an enemy. In the new stage of world game, China is in "hard" mode. India is in "easy" mode, as always it is.

Birds living in harsh environment are cleverer. The CCP government is very smart, sophisticate, patient. It has the ability of self-restraint and keeping low profile. Compared to Chinese government, Indian government is like a spoiled, impulsive, cocky kid. When US government kidnapped Huawei CFO and madly sanctioned Chinese companies, Chinese government never made trouble to American investments in China. By contrast Indian government constantly robbed/banned Chinese investments in India since 2020 border conflict.

I saw many Indians said India is 20 year later than China to adopt opening policy. India wil get to where China is today 20 years later. Indians believe China's success is a thing naturally to happen. They attributed China's achievements to west investments(Which India will have) and China's huge population(Which India already has). Indians forgot China and India chose different paths from the first day. They ignored all the pains and suffers China underwent on the path. No pain, no gain. It also works for India. Hypothetically to say, if India reach to half of China's economy(Which I doubt), India would for the first time face hits from used to be nice America, can spoiled Indians and their government handle the "not easy" mode? I don't think so.

Nice joke. China is an utter failure. CCP has succeeded in authoritarianism for Xi.

 

[MH.Yang]

Can the chinese model be replicated elsewhere ? otherwise isn't this whole discussion a moot point ?

Maybe you don't know, Japan and Singapore are also de facto one party countries.

Japan's ruling party has always been the Liberal Democratic Party.

The ruling party in Singapore has always been the people's action party.

Too many moving parts in a "Democracy" .. its a beauty in many senses but very high maintenance, too many weak points.. despite how good it presented as.

Authoritarian one party systems, with a few adjustments.. and very few are needed in China due to their cultural homogeneity, will always beat out and be more efficient than a messy place like India with all sorts of different groups wanting all sorts of vastly varying and sometimes conflicting demands.

The one party system is neither better nor worse than the multi-party system. There is no good or bad system, only suitable or unsuitable.

A country needs different systems in different environments and different time nodes.

We need to dynamically understand and observe the pace of history. If we rigidly label a system as "good" or "bad", we will inevitably fail.

 

[nahtanbob]

Maybe you don't know, Japan and Singapore are also de facto one party countries.

Japan's ruling party has always been the Liberal Democratic Party.

The ruling party in Singapore has always been the people's action party.

Singapore is 77% Chinese. There are similarities to China.

Japan did not copy China by any means. The LDP lost power a couple times for short periods.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@kankan326

Maybe you are right. Maybe India will never be as rich or powerful as PRC is. But if India is better than what it is today and gives its citizens a better life than what it is used to, I will take that.

Regards

 

[nahtanbob]

Different this time. Japanese and S.Korea are small countries. And they are under US control. US doesn't worry too much when transfers technologies to them. China and India are big countries. Difficult to gain technologies from west. Let alone it is China that is holding most industries chains today, not the west. China and India don't get along well.


China's model is not the only path. India can make some progresses but not to China's level.

Different this time. Japanese and S.Korea are small countries. And they are under US control. US doesn't worry too much when transfers technologies to them. China and India are big countries. Difficult to gain technologies from west. Let alone it is China that is holding most industries chains today, not the west. China and India don't get along well.


China's model is not the only path. India can make some progresses but not to China's level.

Even if India makes it to 50% of China's level it becomes a huge economy given its population

 

[MH.Yang]

Singapore is 77% Chinese. There are similarities to China.

Japan did not copy China by any means. The LDP lost power a couple times for short periods.

Japan's Liberal Democratic Party was not the ruling party for only three years.

In addition, you can explain that Japan, like China, is also a country of the Confucian culture system, and Vietnam is also a country of the Confucian system.

Don't worry, I never think India is suitable for a one party system. I think Bangladesh may be the only country in South Asia that can copy China's system.

 

[nahtanbob]

Japan's Liberal Democratic Party was not the ruling party for only three years.

In addition, you can explain that Japan, like China, is also a country of the Confucian culture system, and Vietnam is also a country of the Confucian system.

Don't worry, I never think India is suitable for a one party system. I think Bangladesh may be the only country in South Asia that can copy China's system.

I can see other political parties ruling Japan if the LDP falters badly. The LDP represents the establishment. The establishment did well in Japan.

Vietnam has a communist party. There are superficial similarities to China. I do not mistake Vietnamese culture for Chinese culture.

 

[REhorror]

The LDP is currently holding back Japan so I wouldn't use it as a good example.
Ever since Koizumi and Abe cabinet, LDP politics have been bad.

One party state can be good, as long as the party itself is good.

S. Korea meanwhile shows that multi-parties state can work, since the Democratic party (Moon Jae-in) is good. If it switches to the right wing party (like current Yoon), it's bad again.

 

[S10]

I wouldn't say never. India is pretty wealthy historically.