India threatens Pakistan while Pak Army targets political leadership in press conference

[Clutch]

Pakistan Army is just a Corrupt Property Dealership.... They cannot confront India so they attack Imran Khan for exposing their corruption and extrajudicial killings (i.e. terrorism against Pakistanis)

 

[Dalit]

If what you are saying is true, there is no contrast. Both armies/governments have the buddy they want, so there is harmony. The only contrast could be in the objectives of the respective tag teams, which I don't know what they are. Your army and government are also on the same page. Wasn't that the objective of regime change?

What a great harmony in overthrowing your own government at the request of a superpower.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If this happened in the corporate world, Mr. Bajwa and his team would be felicitated for being team players, going above and beyond the call of duty and all of them would win a paid holiday to Bangkok. Maybe they are just ahead of times.

Hence the old taunt of ‘Most countries have an Army, but in Pakistan the Army has a country’.

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan Army is just a Corrupt Property Dealership.... They cannot confront India so they attack Imran Khan for exposing their corruption and extrajudicial killings (i.e. terrorism against Pakistanis)

A nasty army that is only in it for self enrichment at the expense of the rest.

 

[Abid123]

Bawja has no balls.

 

[Paitoo]

Hence the old taunt of ‘Most countries have an Army, but in Pakistan the Army has a country’.

Long ago I watched a panel discussion on Al Jazeera, hosted by Mehdi Hassan in the Oxford University premises. The show was called Upfront or something like that. In that show the guest was a Pakistani diplomat (I don't recall his name). The guest articulated very well the exalted role of military in Pakistan, linking it with Alexander's invasion to present times, concluding that there is a healthy respect for military's role in society. I think the Pak military takes that role quite seriously.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Your army and government are also on the same page.

‘Same page’ meant both institutions acting in harmony per the constitution. There is nothing wrong with the Military leadership offering suggestions/advice etc to an elected government or an elected government seeking advice from the military leadership, provided the constitution is not violated and the Military leadership remains subservient to the elected government.

In case it isn’t clear, subservient means that elected government is completely within its constitutional limits to tell the Military Leadership to GFYS and the Military Leadership has to obediently comply … or resign.

 

[Paitoo]

‘Same page’ meant both institutions acting in harmony per the constitution. There is nothing wrong with the Military leadership offering suggestions/advice etc to an elected government or an elected government seeking advice from the military leadership, provided the constitution is not violated and the Military leadership remains subservient to the elected government.

In case it isn’t clear, subservient means that elected government is completely within its constitutional limits to tell the Military Leadership to GFYS and the Military Leadership has to obediently comply … or resign.

I get it. But increasingly the sanctity of the constitution has been questioned (at least in India by the present regime) on the grounds that wisdom is not restricted to people of certain era and should evolve with time. My guess is that if there were leaders with zero regards for optics, both countries would throw out their respective constitutions as there clearly seems to be an itch for it. Pakistan scratches it more often, we tolerate it more often.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I get it. But increasingly the sanctity of the constitution has been questioned (at least in India by the present regime) on the grounds that wisdom is not restricted to people of certain era and should evolve with time. My guess is that if there were leaders with zero regards for optics, both countries would throw out their respective constitutions as there clearly seems to be an itch for it. Pakistan scratches it more often, we tolerate it more often.

By no means should a constitution be static, and it can't be over time, either in terms of interpretation or actual language. However, most constitutions (and this is certainly the case in India and Pakistan) define mechanisms under which, to quote you, the sanctity of the constitution can be questioned. These mechanisms can be the courts applying differing interpretations of the same language over time or the legislation that either clarifies/narrows the interpretation of the language of the constitution or constitutional amendments that change the constitution itself.

 

[VCheng]

In case it isn’t clear, subservient means that elected government is completely within its constitutional limits to tell the Military Leadership to GFYS and the Military Leadership has to obediently comply … or resign.

Yes, but we also know what happens when anything like that is attempted, don't we?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Yes, but we also know what happens when anything like that is attempted, don't we?

Of course - the latest installment of that is playing out in front of us right now, and what Imran Khan did (disagree with the Army leadership on foreign policy, making corruption convictions an important part of his agenda and dictating critical appointments like the DG ISI, as the constitution allows him to) would be something most normal, functioning countries wouldn't even blink at.

But in Pakistan we have General Bajwa and company willing to destroy the country over their piqued egos and unquenched thirst for complete control and power.

 

[VCheng]

Of course - the latest installment of that is playing out in front of us right now, and what Imran Khan did (disagree with the Army leadership on foreign policy, making corruption convictions an important part of his agenda and dictating critical appointments like the DG ISI, as the constitution allows him to) would be something most normal, functioning countries wouldn't even blink at.

But in Pakistan we have General Bajwa and company willing to destroy the country over their piqued egos and unquenched thirst for complete control and power.

That certainly has been the tragedy of my life that resulted in my leaving the country. The pity is that it has not ended even yet, with a next generation falling prey to the same systems I left behind a long time ago.

 

[salarsikander]

That certainly has been the tragedy of my life that resulted in my leaving the country. The pity is that it has not ended even yet, with a next generation falling prey to the same systems I left behind a long time ago.

And I am glad you did. Otherwise, your talents would have been wasted here, Good luck doctor, more power to you, save more people.

 

[INS_Vikrant]

The real reason is that India has become too soft now. It is too lost in the dreams of economic growth and cushy life to give a **** about protracted war over a remote part of the country. Every kid wants to be a startup billionaire. We have too much to loose in case of a conflict. Stock markets, FDI, FII and all that shit.

Exactly couldn't have put it better my self.

 

[SQ8]

Right, a direct threat by India to retake Gilgit-Baltistan & Azad Kashmir doesn’t deserve even a press statement, but an hours long outright political propaganda conference by the DG ISPR & DG ISI, targeting the most popular political party and political leadership in the country, was absolutely justified …

Like I said - the Army leadership is little more than a bunch of incompetent, constitution violating, traitorous property dealers.

Hell, they aren’t even competent property dealers because they need all the tax incentives and land grabbing through their influence to be successful.

Dayum!
Agno not coming weak!

But, in fairness I don’t consider the entire leadership incompetent but a lot of them are complicit even if by silence. This silence may not entirely be “cowardice” but also a bit of “don’t know any different” military drilled in “don’t rock the boat, don’t question why” situation.

A great example is even in the US during Trumps rule many senior military leaders and even Covid admin with military background did not question or double guess Trump because their military training was “don’t question the superior in public”.

Now, none of us are aware of what is said in private and whether these concerns are conveyed - how if so were they assuaged/quelled by the head honcho and if they had any impact at all.

My read of it so far is that a few made a decision for the entire “establishment” during the government change situation - that led to a situation they are not intellectually equipped or trained to handle other than trying to apply their own tradecraft which belongs in the 60s and now its blowing up in their faces not just from domestic events but also targeted fires being lit from “interested” parties.

And its been historically proven that the “establishment” has considered itself this

But generally ends up performing like this