India spanks USA over diplomat arrest issue !

[Iggy]

I'm sure that's backward. India has lost big big big time here. The Khobragade affair will be cited for years as an reminder that India's morals aren't those of "saintly" Ghandi but of a mafia supporting its pimps.

Its not about once moral.. Its the way countries should treat each other's diplomat with respect.. It took one arrest to make US not so trustworthy country in the eyes of Indians. The common question arises here was, whats the need of an enemy when a friendly nation is doing this kind of things to us..

 

[Developereo]

I agree with most of your assessment. The ET editor wrote an opinion piece implying that it's only Pakistani fear of retaliation that keeps Pakistan's diplomats from doing the same thing. He also published a blog by a Pakistani psychologist agreeing with him.

My comment was about the fact that India has graduated past the colonial era. Unlike many people in former colonies around the world, Indians do not measure their self-worth by how well they are liked by the West. Indians are proud of their self-identity and they deal with the West (and East and everyone else) on their terms.

Question is, is this accurate or not, and if so, is this really a "stab in the back" or a call to Pakistanis to seek a higher standard of conduct for their own good?

I'm not defending the diplomat's conduct. There is no doubt that Khobragade (and her father) are despicable characters. As I wrote above, this is not about her at all; it's about the American administration's respect for India's concerns.

To paraphrase FDR, "she may be a bastard, but she's our bastard".

I'm sure that's backward. India has lost big big big time here. The Khobragade affair will be cited for years as an reminder that India's morals aren't those of "saintly" Ghandi but of a mafia supporting its pimps.

I don't think so. The details of this case will be forgotten in a few months. What's important here is that the Indian establishment stood firm and united against the reigning and unchallenged superpower. Only a handful of countries dare to do that.

First it was Italy, now it's the Big Guy himself. India is announcing that the old world order is no longer applicable.

What will endure from this episode will be a grudging respect by the US administration for the new India. Unless the US wants to revamp its whole geopolitical game plan, it needs India just as much as India needs the US.

I will repeat my prediction that the State department will throw Bharara under the bus and find some way to save Khobragade.

 

[Solomon2]

Its not about once moral.. Its the way countries should treat each other's diplomat with respect...

India is a signatory of the 1963 Vienna Consulate Convention and wishes others to obey its terms while loudly demanding the right to selectively violate it when it comes to its own personnel as a sign of "respect".

U.S. is on the moral high ground while India has fallen to the gutter - and shows every sign that it intends to remain there. Why should the U.S. care about how "trustworthy" and "friendly" it appears to such people? "Strategic" reasons? This Administration doesn't care about such things.

 

[Iggy]

India is a signatory of the 1963 Vienna Consulate Convention and wishes others to obey its terms while loudly demanding the right to selectively violate it when it comes to its own personnel as a sign of "respect".

U.S. is on the moral high ground while India has fallen to the gutter - and shows every sign that it intends to remain there. Why should the U.S. care about how "trustworthy" and "friendly" it appears to such people? "Strategic" reasons? This Administration doesn't care about such things.

As I said, we are not talking about the crime she did, future is not so bright for her even if she comes to India.. Our country questions the way you treated her.. Instead of this highly publicized drama, your DA could have asked her to report the office regarding this matter.. And what authority you have to talk to Vienna consulate convention when you twisted it for your own benefits.. Many posts are here about how US members and diplomats escaped from many countries.. There is nothing wrong in extending some courtesy which you enjoyed in many countries..

 

[Marigold]

And why did the US feel the need to "evacuate" her family (who, by the way, are Indian citizens living in India)? The "life in danger" theory is a joke!

Will they "evacuate" families of all the people facing criminal charges in India?

 

[Iggy]

Online petition to drop charges against Devyani launched

An online White House petition demanding the Obama Administration drop the visa fraud case against Devyani Khobragade has been launched here by a group of Indian-Americans who said the senior Indian diplomat’s public humiliation hurts the sentiments of the community.

Protesting the manner in which India’s Deputy Consul General was arrested on December 12 in New York, the online petition said there was perceptible animus in handling the arrest.

“Dr Khobragade was arrested as she came out of her daughter’s school, handcuffed, strip-searched, body cavity searched, swabbed and kept in a lock up in spite of her assertions of immunity,” the petition said, adding that she is one of the faces of Indian government for the Indian community in the US.

“Her public humiliation injures the sentiments of the Indian-American community. Such incidents are bound to strain the Indo-US relations. We request that given the trauma and public humiliation that Dr Khobragade has egregiously suffered, the criminal case against her should be dropped immediately,” the online petition said.

Meanwhile, several experts questioned the decision of the US Government to arrest the 39-year-old diplomat on visa fraud case.

“There appears to be no question that the government acted legally, but there is a very big distinction between acting under the collar of your authority and doing what as a matter of foreign relations and common goods sense is wise,” Stephen Vladeck, professor at the American University College of law, told the NBC news in an interview.

“The treatment of the arrested Indian deputy consul general in New York was abominable. The Indian official is correct that, even with unfriendly countries, such actions are outrageous,” said M Gordon Jones, a former US Foreign Service official who was posted in New Delhi in 1990s.

“I fear that the US mania regarding security allows excesses such as the Devyani Khobragade case to be tolerated.

But it should not be: The result is worse security for our New Delhi staff. The US Marshals Service should be investigated and, if the abuses are confirmed, the officials involved should be severely disciplined,” Mr. Jones wrote to The Washington Post.

“It is time to put the nation’s security into perspective. We must control our officials or they will damage our standing in the world,” he said.

According to Article 41 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Affairs, a consular officer shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a “grave crime” and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority. It also calls for giving “respect due to” the Consular official in case of arrest.

Former Indian Ambassador to the US Nirupama Rao said the treatment meted out to Ms. Khobragade was wrong, disproportionate, and shocking in extreme and condemnable.

Since Ms. Khobragade was an accredited diplomat, the Indian Embassy should have been informed about impending move to arrest her, she said.

Online petition to drop charges against Devyani launched - The Hindu

@Solomon2, what possible explanation can you give to the evacuation of a member who was under trial and Barara's comment about Indian judicial system? What moral ground US have in this regard?

 

[Solomon2]

As I said, we are not talking about the crime she did, future is not so bright for her even if she comes to India.. Our country questions the way you treated her..

If you've been reading up you'll realize that allegations of mistreatment are either rumors or unjustifiable exaggerations.

Instead of this highly publicized drama, your DA could have asked her to report the office regarding this matter.

Sounds reasonable, doesn't it? However, the evidence the D.A. has is in the form of paperwork Khobragade filled out as part of her official duties showing that she abused her position. Article 44-3 of the Consular Convention says Khobragade is under no obligation to discuss such things.

The State Dept. did send a letter to the Indian embassy discussing the situation, which apparently was not answered.

And what authority you have to talk to Vienna consulate convention when you twisted it -

Who do I have to be, exactly? Some sort of saint? I don't work for the U.S. government. i never "twisted" the Convention. There have been U.S. diplomats in trouble overseas before. I've read accounts of some of the abuses. Either the personnel concerned fall under the Diplomatic Convention instead of the Consular Convention, or they are fugitives from U.S. law, or legal settlements were made and executed in line with the laws of the host country, as for Raymond Davis.

There is nothing wrong in extending some courtesy which you enjoyed in many countries..

When was the last time evidence existed to accuse a U.S. diplomat of human trafficking?

 

[jaunty]

@Aeronaut @Oscar @WebMaster @Manticore Can you change this stupid thread title?

 

[Solomon2]

@Solomon2, what possible explanation can you give to the evacuation of a member who was under trial and Barara's comment about Indian judicial system? What moral ground US have in this regard?

From what I've read so far the Indian gov't was keen to retaliate against Richard's family and that's what the legal proceedings in India were about. Here we have a disconnect between Indian law and international law: international law says the consul is to follow the laws of her host country but an Indian court ruled - incorrectly, of course - that the employment contract signed in India should be valid in the U.S.

So the Indians started proceedings against Richard and made life difficult for her husband. But the same U.S. law that protects Richard says she has the right under U.S. law not to be retaliated against. I presume that was the motivation for the U.S. to move to protect Richard's family by evacuating them from India.

 

[American_Millenium]

Yes, please do that. I suggest start with the Indian students.

Yea, the Indian students who are irrelevant to the advancements made by the United States.

I'm sure that sending back a couple thousand Indians taking advantage of our universal education system won't do the least to harm our country.

 

[armchairPrivate]

The Indian price fighter was beaten to a pulp, and the referee checked on the Indian. The Indian gasping for air and said I am winning.

Spank the USA?

The Indian asked for an apology - got none.
The Indian asked to drop all the charges against to the Indian woman - she is still on bail.

 

[idune]

Online petition to drop charges against Devyani launched

Why online petition when india is spanking through removing security barricade, vandalizing Dominos pizza and event using subservient third country regime to do same thing as india?

We Americans should stand against slave practice by indians or anyone else for that matter. This issue runs deep in American history and india showed utter and repeated disrespect to American sensitivity and history. In fact there should be counter petition to investigate all indian companies who often commit visa fraud and slave practices.

@Solomon2 would you like to initiate that?

 

[JayAtl]

And why did the US feel the need to "evacuate" her family (who, by the way, are Indian citizens living in India)? The "life in danger" theory is a joke!

Will they "evacuate" families of all the people facing criminal charges in India?

we did not send the marines in to evacuate them, they came on their own fruition.

The lady broke the law, the issue is the " strip search" . I can understand the outrage from that angle, but she broke the law and there is no two ways out of that

 

[Aramsogo]

Yea, the Indian students who are irrelevant to the advancements made by the United States.

I'm sure that sending back a couple thousand Indians taking advantage of our universal education system won't do the least to harm our country.

I would say no great lost. They don't really contribute much to the American economy. I say that knowing that most don't enjoy working and would rather be do-nothing middle managers. In fact, even most Indian Americans know that statement is true. Think Jewish people, but take away 25 to 30 IQ Points. That basically describes the American Indian (not red skinned kind, the Indians that just got here).

 

[JayAtl]

If you've been reading up you'll realize that allegations of mistreatment are either rumors or unjustifiable exaggerations.

solomon, the issue is the strip search of a diplomat. she broke the law - yes. she needs to face the judicial system -yes. she was dubious- yes.

But where we failed was- we should have booked her, finger printed her, even put in a cell till she made bail( which was expected to be in hours) or given her a ROR without the need to change her into jail uniform/ strip search. This is not exactly high crimes if you know what I mean, we could have exercised discretion that is afforded to all americans too. This is what we should do for all diplomats for all nations when grave crimes have not been committed.

I would say no great lost. They don't really contribute much to the American economy. I say that knowing that most don't enjoy working and would rather be do-nothing middle managers. In fact, even most Indian Americans know that statement is true. Think Jewish people, but take away 25 to 30 IQ Points. That basically describes the American Indian (not red skinned kind, the Indians that just got here).

Your famous chinese IQ shows. No1 profession of chinese like you and in the US are restaurant servers in the US.

In every success measure you lose to indians in america. Table 3 is waiting for you to take the order!

Why online petition when india is spanking through removing security barricade, vandalizing Dominos pizza and event using subservient third country regime to do same thing as india?

We Americans should stand against slave practice by indians or anyone else for that matter. This issue runs deep in American history and india showed utter and repeated disrespect to American sensitivity and history. In fact there should be counter petition to investigate all indian companies who often commit visa fraud and slave practices.

@Solomon2 would you like to initiate that?

A bangla-who-desh guy asking the American jew to stand with him, where otherwise on these boards he is always ranting against israel and jews Oh the irony!