India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75%

[anant_s]

MOSCOW: India and Russia are set to sign a pact for quick delivery of spare parts for the Su 30 MKI fleet that would ensure that the aircraft is available for more combat missions - a key focus area for Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar who has working on reducing the amount of time frontline fighters are grounded due to technical issues.

The long term spares agreement will provide for an express process for the delivery of spares for the fleet for the next five years.

The long term spares agreement will provide for an express process for the delivery of spares for the fleet for the next five years. Unlike in the past where each spare part had to be ordered separately with a lengthy process involving license, customs clearance and bank guarantees, the contract will ensure that spare parts start getting manufactured within a month of the air force raising a requirement.
"A delegation from the Indian defence ministry is expected in the second half of December and we hope to have a positive decision and sign the contract at the soonest," Valery V Chishchevoy, Marketing Director of Sukhoi told ET.
While in the past, the bureaucratic processes led to a 12 month time period between the time a requirement was raised and the spare part would start to get manufactured, this time will now be cut to 30 days.

Chishchevoy said that the main purpose of the new agreement is to increase the reliability and availability of the Su 30 fleet to 60 percent and higher. The availability rate is the number of aircraft in the entire fleet that are available for combat missions at any given time. At present, just over 50 percent of India's Su 30 fleet - 272 of the fighters have been ordered - are available for combat missions as the rest are either undergoing repairs or grounded due to delay in the supply of spare parts.
Defence Minister Parrikar has told ET in the past that his aim is to increase this availability rate to 65 percent and above so that the available resources of the air force are used optimally. The Su 30 MKI fleet is the cutting edge of the airforce and would be it largest in terms of numbers of a modern fighter jet.

There is a possibility that the availability of the fleet could touch the magical figure of 75 percent. Chishchevoy said that the Russian proposal ten years ago when the fleet was young was to appoint Sukhoi as the single supplier responsible for the serviceability of the fleet and 75 percent would be `guaranteed'.

"Under the new contract, after the receipt of a request from the Indian air force, the spare part wil be delivered to the air force warehouse within 4-12 months, depending on the time it takes to manufacture the part. As of now, 12 months are required for just to start the production, this will reduce to 30 days," Viacheslav Yu Lozan, After Sale Center Director, Sukhoi said.

India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75% - The Economic Times

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Don't we get the spares from IRKUT?
Why not get them some additional dollars and start manufacturing them at home . Also sign a pact to have minimum availability with HAL, like we had with Boeing for 85% availability for Globemasters.

And why do we have to make a request for a spare only when it is needed ? We should maintain reserves.

 

[Abingdonboy]

MOSCOW: India and Russia are set to sign a pact for quick delivery of spare parts for the Su 30 MKI fleet that would ensure that the aircraft is available for more combat missions - a key focus area for Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar who has working on reducing the amount of time frontline fighters are grounded due to technical issues.
View attachment 277920
The long term spares agreement will provide for an express process for the delivery of spares for the fleet for the next five years.

The long term spares agreement will provide for an express process for the delivery of spares for the fleet for the next five years. Unlike in the past where each spare part had to be ordered separately with a lengthy process involving license, customs clearance and bank guarantees, the contract will ensure that spare parts start getting manufactured within a month of the air force raising a requirement.
"A delegation from the Indian defence ministry is expected in the second half of December and we hope to have a positive decision and sign the contract at the soonest," Valery V Chishchevoy, Marketing Director of Sukhoi told ET.
While in the past, the bureaucratic processes led to a 12 month time period between the time a requirement was raised and the spare part would start to get manufactured, this time will now be cut to 30 days.

Chishchevoy said that the main purpose of the new agreement is to increase the reliability and availability of the Su 30 fleet to 60 percent and higher. The availability rate is the number of aircraft in the entire fleet that are available for combat missions at any given time. At present, just over 50 percent of India's Su 30 fleet - 272 of the fighters have been ordered - are available for combat missions as the rest are either undergoing repairs or grounded due to delay in the supply of spare parts.
Defence Minister Parrikar has told ET in the past that his aim is to increase this availability rate to 65 percent and above so that the available resources of the air force are used optimally. The Su 30 MKI fleet is the cutting edge of the airforce and would be it largest in terms of numbers of a modern fighter jet.

There is a possibility that the availability of the fleet could touch the magical figure of 75 percent. Chishchevoy said that the Russian proposal ten years ago when the fleet was young was to appoint Sukhoi as the single supplier responsible for the serviceability of the fleet and 75 percent would be `guaranteed'.

"Under the new contract, after the receipt of a request from the Indian air force, the spare part wil be delivered to the air force warehouse within 4-12 months, depending on the time it takes to manufacture the part. As of now, 12 months are required for just to start the production, this will reduce to 30 days," Viacheslav Yu Lozan, After Sale Center Director, Sukhoi said.

India, Russia to sign pact on spares for Su 30 fleet, availability could go up to 75% - The Economic Times

75% for a twin-engined RUSSIAN fighter is not bad at all.....

 

[Stephen Cohen]

75% for a twin-engined RUSSIAN fighter is not bad at all.....

Please enlighten us on some points

Suppose we want the availability to go even higher
Say 90 Percent

So what would it take on our part ; ordering spares even when not needed

Do they have a shelf life ; hence they are not ordered earlier

Are these spares ordered only after authorisation of the Higher command

Can we cut some more red tape

 

[Abingdonboy]

Please enlighten us on some points

Suppose we want the availability to go even higher
Say 90 Percent

So what would it take on our part ; ordering spares even when not needed

Do they have a shelf life ; hence they are not ordered earlier

Are these spares ordered only after authorisation of the Higher command

Can we cut some more red tape

At some point the law of diminishing returns means that no matter how much effort you put in the tangible gains will be limited beyond a certain point. For Russian fighters this point will be much higher than for Western aircraft as Russian fighters aren't built with the same methodolgy in mind- Western fighters/products/aircraft are designed with the user in mind and that includes the support staff as such it is far easier to actually work on a Western aircraft than a Russian one. For instance a M88 can be "dropped out" and a new one fitted on a Rafale in 2-3 hours by the SQN ground crew (not even OEM staff) a similar job on a MKI with its AL-31 would take the best part of half a day- if not more. The packaging is much tighter on Russian aircraft, ergonomics are not given much attention (just remember the stupidity of placing vital flight control switches under the pilots seat where they have no way of seeing what they are hitting), diagnostics software is given less importance etc etc

Even with all of the inherent usability built into the Rafale in active service their availbailty is around 85%, they can't get 90%- that is almost unheard of in aviation and with a heavy twin engined Russian fighter I would say it is an impossibility. In this light if the IAF can sustain 75% they deserve a lot of plaudits.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

At some point the law of diminishing returns means that no matter how much effort you put in the tangible gains will be limited beyond a certain point. For Russian fighters this point will be much higher than for Western aircraft as Russian fighters aren't built with the same methodolgy in mind- Western fighters/products/aircraft are designed with the user in mind and that includes the support staff as such it is far easier to actually work on a Western aircraft than a Russian one. For instance a M88 can be "dropped out" and a new one fitted on a Rafale in 2-3 hours by the SQN ground crew (not even OEM staff) a similar job on a MKI with its AL-31 would take the best part of half a day- if not more. The packaging is much tighter on Russian aircraft, ergonomics are not given much attention (just remember the stupidity of placing vital flight control switches under the pilots seat where they have no way of seeing what they are hitting), diagnostics software is given less importance etc etc

Even with all of the inherent usability built into the Rafale in active service their availbailty is around 85%, they can't get 90%- that is almost unheard of in aviation and with a heavy twin engined Russian fighter I would say it is an impossibility. In this light if the IAF can sustain 75% they deserve a lot of plaudits.

So some claims of F 16 availability rate of 90 Percent are exaggerations

 

[salarsikander]

Hi,

Wasn't su30 being produced under license ?

 

[Stephen Cohen]

The packaging is much tighter on Russian aircraft, ergonomics are not given much attention (just remember the stupidity of placing vital flight control switches under the pilots seat where they have no way of seeing what they are hitting), diagnostics software is given less importance etc etc

This pilot not seeing the switches that he is hitting ; this thing that you mentioned
sounds very dangerous

So how does the IAF learn how to overcome this handicap

 

[Abingdonboy]

So some claims of F 16 availability rate of 90 Percent are exaggerations

90%?? With a fleet of their size (rather limited), age (despite being upgraded) and no localised production or spares sourcing?

This pilot not seeing the switches that he is hitting ; this thing that you mentioned
sounds very dangerous

So how does the IAF learn how to overcome this handicap

This was discovered to be the cause of the first (or second?) MKI loss and rectified as a result. I think it was something as mental as a switch UNDER the pilot disabled the flight laws/FBW in part or completly making the plane unflyable.

Once the cause was known the IAF worked with HAL and the OEM to move such switches to a more sensible postion.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

90%?? With a fleet of their size (rather limited), age (despite being upgraded) and no localised production or spares sourcing?

That is why I am asking you and I dont argue with them

What do you think are the realistic figures

BTW can we get this information from Lockheed Martin itself ( for a FEES of course )
ie availability rates of PAF F 16

 

[kaykay]

So some claims of F 16 availability rate of 90 Percent are exaggerations

Availability rate of USAF F-16s are in between 70 to 75%.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What do you think are the realistic figures

I wouldn't like to speculate as, obviosuly, I am not privy to such information.

And to be fair, the PAF is a proffesional force, the F-16 is a well designed machine, is Western and single engined- all of these are pros. Having said that, if the USAF with a MASSIVE fleet of F-16s and the OEM to hand has an availabilty rate hovering around the 69-72% mark then I honestly doubt the PAF can get anywhere near 80% let alone 90%.

That said, I'm not sure if the newer upgrades (Blk.52s) increase availbilty rates- if they do then the USAF's figure is rather irrelevent as their fleet is made up of largely old airframes and relatively are of the more contemporary standards (only around 20% of the F-16 fleet is Blk 50/52). That said, sometimes it is often the case that the more complexity you add the more difficulty you face on the maintence/availabilty front.

BTW can we get this information from Lockheed Martin itself ( for a FEES of course )
ie availability rates of PAF F 16

I think there are numerous ways the Indian side (and vice versa of course)can get a (rough) fix on such figures. The IAF has first hand exposure to the F-16 from the Israelis and at least 1 SQN of RSAF F-16 Blk.52s are deployed year round in an IAF AFB. Not to mention the fact that the IAF throughly evaluated the F-16IN which would have included life cycle and maintainabilty anaysis.

 

[[Bregs]]

serviceability has been a major issue with Russian weapon systems of different varieties since past more then a decade. This is a welcome step if this issue is not addressed sooner then Russia will continue to loose lucrative tenders in future too

 

[Stephen Cohen]

serviceability has been a major issue with Russian weapon systems of different varieties since past more then a decade. This is a welcome step if this issue is not addressed sooner then Russia will continue to loose lucrative tenders in future too

I think this was a precondition to signing the PAK FA deal

Good step ; first sort out the problems of Su 30 ; then move to PAK FA

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I said some months back 75% is first interim target and IAF is gonna spend some serious bucks over next 18-24 months and raise it to second interim target of 80% and finally 85%.

For a twin engined jet achieving 75-80% availability at all times is a massive achievement. Among the western fighters if i recall correctly mostly Mirages and to a great extent Rafale comes in 80%-90% range. Especially since Mirage is single engined and Rafale M88 is far far durable and less issue causing.

I hope in Super program we can get a better engine or variant where we can reduce the maintenance time and perhaps prolong engine life. Its a bit ridiculous to compare a 2000 hour engine versus M88 8000 hours engine. Doubling MKI engines life to 4000-5000 hours similar to Su35 engine lifetime may help us reduce our problems manifold and make maintenance friendly moves over time.

All in all a good decision, we should have taken this step 5 years back itself. Still we finally took that step and thats very good. Having a fleet of 272 birds and having at least 210-225 birds available at all times is paramount for us from security perspective