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India-Russia Divorce and its impact on Indian defence

Pakistanis have this feeling that they are indispensable middleman through which everyone needs to conduct business
Russians have sold weapons to iran, iraq, syria, libya, egypt, uae, algeria, bangladesh directly in the past. it beats me why they need pakistani help in selling anything

a lot of this Russia-Pakistan friendship is being pushed by Pakistanis who know China-Pakistan is no match for USA led alliance
ummm i believe the poster was more of talking about CPEC and Russia's interest there then acting as middlemen for Russian arms...lets see what he/she has to say...
 
Pakistanis have this feeling that they are indispensable middleman through which everyone needs to conduct business
Russians have sold weapons to iran, iraq, syria, libya, egypt, uae, algeria, bangladesh directly in the past. it beats me why they need pakistani help in selling anything

Honestly, that's what Pakistan does. Their bickering with India for example. It shows they like to punch above their weight. Displays hard power. Conventional or Nuclear Pakistan cannot win. But if they show they are the bad asses in this area, they do get the role of facilitator. I mean from countries to terrorist groups go there for a reason.
 
though India-Russia alliance started out as a military buyer-seller relationship. It no longer is dependent on it. It is a geopolitical necessity that both work with each other wrt China or US. As India grows economically stronger it makes more sense for Russia & India to lean against each other in world affairs.

This is not the first time this has happened. After 1990's when we opened the economy and started looking towards west the same was said. The fact here is that India & Russia dont have an axe to grind against each other. Russia is called ally of China but which is enemy of India. Has that led Russia to cut of ties with India?

Then we have taliban, Iran on which Russia & Indian have similar views. We have ties with western block Japan as well , that has not affected Russia. There is no binary values in foreign relations just interests some diverge some converge , this one is latter.

Actually both Russia and Iran are negotiating with Taliban ..

Even mullah mansoor was killed crossing into Pak from Iran..

The bigger threat that nobody wants in Afghanistan is Daesh not Taliban..
 
Beggars who do not contribute anything to the world should not making these statements

:rofl:....So anger and frustration.....:D

You do realise India is conducting simultaneous exercises with US and Russia.
In other words we are screwing you from back and front.

BTW congrats, Pakistan will now be labeled a terrorist state soon.

http://dailytimes.com.pk/pakistan/2...o-declare-pakistan-state-sponsor-of-terrorism

:rofl:...:lol:....Indians, you are damn funny....To b more specific, BAKHTS !!!!

Fair enough...please enlighten what Russia will sell through Pakistan and to whom?? Also the second bold part is what it is being accused of...because russia is loosing ground in Indian defense market that is why it is getting closer to Pakistan(Edit : By Pakistani friends)...thirdly its been ages since we were dependent on anyone's aid...In fact we are net giver when it comes to aid...can we say the same about your country?? so this dancing part is a bit invalid in our case...no??

Pakistan didn't survive on aid...Most of US aid went back to US as we used to buy weapons from US...India was top recipeint of US aid...We are Non NATO ally so we just received the tax/aid as NATO supplies and other stuff goes through our territory...They used our infrastructure and paid for it...How does it qualify as aid?

Russia can export and import whatever she manufactures and what she lacks respectively through CPEC....People are not stupid for calling Russia to join CPEC...

UK used to give you aid and found out you are directing that aid towards some other projects...No? So Indians should b last ones to lecture about ethics, decency, aid and survival...
 
:rofl:....So anger and frustration.....:D



:rofl:...:lol:....Indians, you are damn funny....To b more specific, BAKHTS !!!!



Pakistan didn't survive on aid...Most of US aid went back to US as we used to buy weapons from US...India was top recipeint of US aid...We are Non NATO ally so we just received the tax/aid as NATO supplies and other stuff goes through our territory...They used our infrastructure and paid for it...How does it qualify as aid?

Russia can export and import whatever she manufactures and what she lacks respectively through CPEC....People are not stupid for calling Russia to join CPEC...

UK used to give you aid and found out you are directing that aid towards some other projects...No? So Indians should b last ones to lecture about ethics, decency, aid and survival...

There is no anger and frustration. On one hand Pakistani establishment judges America by the amount of the goodies they get. On the other hand you want Russia to behave otherwise. Try some logic for a change.

Pakistan made a living off handouts from foreign states. Your F-16 and JF-17 fleets are financed by foreign tax payers.
As far as Pakistan using American aid to buy American weapons that is a choice made by your rulers.

You make it sound like CPEC is the only transport gateway in the world. What are Russia's exports ? Who are Russia's customers ?
 
Man it seems you have replied based on perception than matter...let me try to show the gaps...

Pakistan didn't survive on aid...Most of US aid went back to US as we used to buy weapons from US...India was top recipeint of US aid...We are Non NATO ally so we just received the tax/aid as NATO supplies and other stuff goes through our territory...They used our infrastructure and paid for it...How does it qualify as aid?
Are you talking about today or historically?? because you accused India of dancing on the tunes of whoever throws money at her...that is where i brought the aid part....now let me ask again....are you a net donor country or net aid receiver??

Russia can export and import whatever she manufactures and what she lacks respectively through CPEC....People are not stupid for calling Russia to join CPEC....
That is not what i asked....I asked what do you think they will import and export and to whom...if you go into specific of this question you may get a different answer...

UK used to give you aid and found out you are directing that aid towards some other projects...No? So Indians should b last ones to lecture about ethics, decency, aid and survival...
What?? I will ignore this as it is pure rubbish...anyways that is not what we are discussing and neither i lectured you on ethics, decency, aid or survival!!
 
Man it seems you have replied based on perception than matter...let me try to show the gaps...


Are you talking about today or historically?? because you accused India of dancing on the tunes of whoever throws money at her...that is where i brought the aid part....now let me ask again....are you a net donor country or net aid receiver??

latter one...But we deserved it as world used our soil to attack Afghanistan...We gave them our support...We are handling all Afghan refugees...They are not doing us any favor at all....No free lunch in this world...

That is not what i asked....I asked what do you think they will import and export and to whom...if you go into specific of this question you may get a different answer...

@somebozo may answer you...Russians export goods are Petroleum and petroleum products, natural gas, metals, wood and wood products, chemicals, and a wide variety of civilian and military manufactures

There is no anger and frustration. On one hand Pakistani establishment judges America by the amount of the goodies they get. On the other hand you want Russia to behave otherwise. Try some logic for a change.

Pakistan made a living off handouts from foreign states. Your F-16 and JF-17 fleets are financed by foreign tax payers.
As far as Pakistan using American aid to buy American weapons that is a choice made by your rulers.

You make it sound like CPEC is the only transport gateway in the world. What are Russia's exports ? Who are Russia's customers ?

see post 157...I think we have debated it earlier what Russia and why Russia would like to join CPEC....their forever dream to access warm water port....
 
latter one...But we deserved it as world used our soil to attack Afghanistan...We gave them our support...We are handling all Afghan refugees...They are not doing us any favor at all....No free lunch in this world...
well i am not judging you on the fact that you deserve it or not...if the money/material is routed to you as aid then unfortunately it is aid...in other words it will simply be stopped at whims and fancies of aid giver...kind of have happened just recently...and we are a net aid giver...so now may i ask who throws money at us and we dance like a whore?? Are you willing to accept that it was more of a frustrated remark and lack substance...


@somebozo may answer you...Russians export goods are Petroleum and petroleum products, natural gas, metals, wood and wood products, chemicals, and a wide variety of civilian and military manufacture
hopefully he do...what you are not getting is when you match them with the customers there is not much in there...now i am not trying to undermine CPEC....so dont get me wrong...
 
well i am not judging you on the fact that you deserve it or not...if the money/material is routed to you as aid then unfortunately it is aid...in other words it will simply be stopped at whims and fancies of aid giver...kind of have happened just recently...and we are a net aid giver...so now may i ask who throws money at us and we dance like a whore?? Are you willing to accept that it was more of a frustrated remark and lack substance...



hopefully he do...what you are not getting is when you match them with the customers there is not much in there...now i am not trying to undermine CPEC....so dont get me wrong...

I take that word back...I was just got carried away in excitement...
 
I take that word back...I was just got carried away in excitement...
No worries...we all get excited from time to time and makes some remarks which are not the right one's....what matters more is that are we willing to accept our mistake and move on...so congrats there...:)
 
@somebozo may answer you...Russians export goods are Petroleum and petroleum products, natural gas, metals, wood and wood products, chemicals, and a wide variety of civilian and military manufactures

You do not transport petroluem/petroluem products, chemicals, metals over long distances by roads
weapons are not exported over neutral countries on roads either
 
Money is not everything, jackass....Russia is not looking what it will sell to Pakistan...Russia is looking what it can sell THROUGH Pakistan....

Unlike Indians, Russians are not cheap whore will dance on whoever throws big money...

Its time for Indians to burn...Go to this thread...I have to open burn center in your country...U desperately need it...Till then enjoy this...

https://defence.pk/threads/pak-russia-drills-video.451848/

:lol: :enjoy:

Good for Pakistan.

Very curious and eager to see the good future of Russia and Pakistan.
 
Russia Wants to De-Hyphenate India and Pakistan. Should Delhi Worry?
Moscow’s recent attempt to de-hyphenate its relations with Pakistan and India will only frustrate New Dehli.

thediplomat_2016-02-10_21-20-33-36x36.jpg

By Umair Jamal for The Diplomat
September 27, 2016
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A contingent of Russian troops landed in Pakistan on September 23, dispelling rumors that Moscow had decided to cancel its first ever joint military exercises with Pakistan in order to express solidarity with its long time ally India for the Uri attack, which killed 18 Indian soldiers last week in Jammu and Kashmir.

Russia is one of India’s oldest and closest allies. The two countries have pursued broad military and commercial ties since the partition of the subcontinent in 1947. During the Cold War, India signed a treaty of friendship with the Soviet Union in 1971.

Historically, Pakistan and Russia’s ties have remained strained. Until recently, the relationship between the two countries was shaped by Moscow’s ties with New Delhi. However, Russia’s hesitancy to support its historic ally in the wake of the Uri attack by not calling off the exercises with Pakistan marks a distinct shift in Moscow’s foreign policy.

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Over the last couple of years, Russia has attempted to expand its relationship with Pakistan. Pakistan and Russia are in the process of finalizing a military deal that includes the sale of Su-35 fighter jets. Moreover, last year, Russia and Pakistan signed an agreement for the construction of an 1,100 kilometer gas pipeline from Lahore to Karachi.

However, Russia’s attempt to engage Pakistan is not a reaction to New Delhi’s much-discussed growing closeness with the United States. Rather, for Russia, it’s an attempt to break out of its growing economic and diplomatic isolation, which surged in the form of Western sanctions aimed at isolating the Russian economy after it annexed Crimea.

Moscow’s decision of not canceling the ongoing military exercises with Pakistan is likely driven by its domestic consideration that the new geostrategic environment in South Asia demands Russia extend its diplomatic, security, and economic outreach beyond its historic partnerships and alliances.

Moreover, Russia is trying to find new markets for its arms in order to keep its defense industry afloat. Russia cannot afford to continue its current dependency on India and China (Russia’s largest arms buyers); the growing economic stagnation of the country will aggravate further if Moscow fails to diversity its arms trade.

India, meanwhile, is diversifying its economic and security relations. Russia, whose ties with China have historically been difficult, is deepening its military and economic relations there as well.

Meanwhile, to fulfill its own growing economic and security needs, Pakistan has looked for other sources of support beyond Washington. Arguably, Islamabad’s strategic tilt away from Washington and toward Beijing is meant to counter the United States’ highly demanding partnership.

In the short term, Russia’s rapprochement with Pakistan will surely annoy India, for it does not fall in line with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s new policy aimed at isolating Pakistan globally.

Keep in mind that the joint military exercises between Russia and Pakistan were planned months ago. However, Russia’s decision to send troops to Pakistan in the wake of the Uri attack, which India squarely blames on Pakistan, would not have been undertaken without due considerations.

However, none of this means that Moscow will not support New Delhi’s stance on terrorism vis-à-vis Pakistan. While many countries’ condemnation of the Uri attack was veiled, Russia, in its statement, directly mentioned Pakistan: “We note with concern the resurgence of terrorist attacks near the Line of Control. It is alarming and according to New Dehli, the attack on military unit near the town of Uri was committed from the territory of Pakistan.”

Moreover, the Russian embassy in India, in a statement, said that the counterterrorism exercises will not be held in any disputed areas, such as Gilgit-Baltistan, or the Pakistan-controlled part of the Kashmir region. (There was some confusion regarding this statement as the exercise was slated to start in Rattu in Gilgit-Baltistan, according to Pakistani reports.)

Without a doubt, the changing phase of Russia-Pakistan relations does not pose any real challenge to New Delhi’s time-tested strategic partnership with Moscow. Nevertheless, these developments do indicate that Moscow and Islamabad’s bilateral relations will no longer be defined by India-Russia ties.

http://thediplomat.com/2016/09/russia-wants-to-de-hyphenate-india-and-pakistan-should-delhi-worry/


Russia’s war drills come as surprise in Asia

By Sergei Blagov on September 27, 2016 in Asia Times News & Features, China, India, South Asia, Southeast Asia

The drills in Asia appeared to highlight Russia’s converging interests with China and Pakistan, despite possible adverse repercussions for relations with India and ASEAN. Yet the wisdom of Russia’s latest policy of war games can remain a matter of debate.

MOSCOW (AT)–Military exercises seem becoming instrument of choice of the Kremlin’s foreign policy. Some of these drills also proved instrumental to raise eyebrows in Asia, and elsewhere.


Russia-Pakistan drill takes place at the same time the Indo-Russia joint military exercise Indra-2016 is being held in Vladivostok, Russia

In a surprise move, Russian troops landed in Pakistan on September 23 for the first-ever joint military exercises. Some 200 troops from the two countries take part in the drill, officially described as anti-terror exercise, to October 10. The joint military exercises were apparently intended to highlight growing defense ties between Moscow and Islamabad, the two former Cold War rivals.

The Russia-Pakistan joint drill raised questions whether it could adversely affect Moscow-Delhi traditional ties as the Kremlin was seen as siding with Islamabad in the territorial dispute with India. The Russian Embassy in India was forced to dismiss media reports that the Russia-Pakistan drill could be held in areas disputed with India, including “Azad Kashmir,” Gilgit and Baltistan. In response, India voiced concerns towards what New Delhi described as “Pakistan-sponsored cross-border terrorism” and these concerns were also conveyed to its strategic partner, Russia.

Coincidence or not, the Russia-Pakistan drill takes place at the same time the Indo-Russia joint military exercise Indra-2016 is being held in Vladivostok, Russia, from September 22 to October 2. These biannual exercises, held between the two nations since 2003, were designed to highlight what was officially described as “strategic alliance” between Russia and India. Holding joint military exercises with India and Pakistan simultaneously came as Russia’s surprising stratagem as Moscow appeared undermining the decades-long “strategic alliance” with Delhi so as to develop defense ties with Islamabad.

The Kremlin held other surprising military exercises out there in Asia. Earlier this month, Russian and Chinese naval forces held the first-ever joint military drill in the South China Sea. The Joint Sea-2016 drill from September 12-19 was also the single largest joint maritime military exercise between Russia and China ever.

China claims nearly all of the South China Sea, but ASEAN countries, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei, disagree with these claims. In July 2016, the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague ruled that China has no grounds to claim these islands and reefs in the South China Sea. The Chinese authorities refused to accept the court’s decision.

The Russian Foreign Ministry insisted Russia was not a party in this confrontation and was not going to get involved. However, the Sino-Russian joint drills were seen as having adverse repercussions for Russia-ASEAN.

The Joint Sea-2016 drill was held not in a contested part of the South China Sea. But willingly or unwillingly, Russia backed China’s claim to the disputed islands there.

For Russia though, it would hardly have been worth holding drills in the South China Sea at all in the first place, as Moscow was undermining relations with ASEAN and antagonizing its traditional ally, Vietnam. Backing Beijing’s historic claims to South China Sea appeared to be a dicey game for Moscow as China could potentially have similar historic claims to sizable parts of Russia’s Far East.

The Joint Sea-2016 came as the latest in a series of high-profile joint military drills. In August 2015, Russian and Chinese naval forces held exercises in the Sea of Japan, featuring live-firing combat drills. In May 2015, both navies held joint exercises in the Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea, in an apparent challenge to US perceived dominance in the region.

This year, Moscow even held maneuvers with its smaller neighbor states. Last month, the first Russian-Mongolian joint drill was held in Russia’s Buryatia internal republic.

Russia also held major military exercises unilaterally. The Kavkaz (Caucasus)-2016 drill was held in Russia from late August until September 10. During the maneuvers, the Caspian Flotilla was training to use the Kalibr cruise missiles.

Meanwhile, Russia’s policy of war games also sparked concerns in the West. NATO officials reportedly complained that Russia held increasing numbers of large drills with no advance notification. Last week, Western media outlets floated Ukraine’s military intelligence claims that Russia’s nuclear forces were practising readiness for a large-scale nuclear conflict.

Last month, yet another Russian drill involved called for NATO soldiers “to lay down arms.” The exercises, named Cooperation-2016, was aimed at preparing troops to protect the country’s northwest borders from a hypothetical NATO invasion. While dubbing these exercises as World War 3 drills would probably be an exaggeration, the wording was sufficient to spark concerns in Western capitals.

The drills in Asia appeared to highlight Russia’s converging interests with China and Pakistan, despite possible adverse repercussions for relations with India and ASEAN. Yet the wisdom of Russia’s latest policy of war games can remain a matter of debate.

Sergei Blagov is a Moscow-based independent journalist and researcher. In the past three decades, he has been covering Asian affairs from Moscow, Russia, as well as Hanoi, Vietnam and Vientiane, Laos. He is the author of non-fiction books on Vietnam, and a contributor of a handbook for reporters.

http://atimes.com/2016/09/russian-war-games-come-as-surprise-in-asia/
 
you dont need russia as long they sell weapons to china your enemy every thinh they have you can get from the west maybe will be more expensive
 
:rofl:....So anger and frustration.....:D



:rofl:...:lol:....Indians, you are damn funny....To b more specific, BAKHTS !!!!



Pakistan didn't survive on aid...Most of US aid went back to US as we used to buy weapons from US...India was top recipeint of US aid...We are Non NATO ally so we just received the tax/aid as NATO supplies and other stuff goes through our territory...They used our infrastructure and paid for it...How does it qualify as aid?

Russia can export and import whatever she manufactures and what she lacks respectively through CPEC....People are not stupid for calling Russia to join CPEC...

UK used to give you aid and found out you are directing that aid towards some other projects...No? So Indians should b last ones to lecture about ethics, decency, aid and survival...
CPEC lol another China lap dog in the making. Africa became China's bus boy through stadium diplomacy, Pakistan will be the one calling China 'Massa' after it.

I love seeing desperation on Pakistani faces. Reminds me of how privileged I am to be leading a life in India with its abundant opportunities.

And we don't even require aid like Pakistan. Intact we are banning NGO's foreign funding.

Pakistan will continue to be China's 'boy'.
 
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