India reaches out to global community, says Pak army not the target

[IceCold]

Your internal politics. Not our problem.

It becomes your problem if Pakistan responds.

Read the wordings of the DGMO. Operations have finished. Now, if he is lying about the strike, there is no problem. Since there was no problem, except India lying. And Pakistan has called the bluff by pointing out there is no proof.

Secondly, for the first time, NS and your FO has stated, that you are showing restraint. Which is good. Since, there was no strike to begin with, restraint is necessary while responding to rhetoric.

As for small arms fire and mortar, looks like we are going back to 2000. A few months of small arms fire and then diplomats will talk of Karachi summit, since Lahore and Islamabad are over.

Restraint is nothing but BS. I know for a reason that if strike indeed happened as per India than Pakistani response is only logical. It cannot be that strike did not happened and yet it happened. So if India claims that it hit Pakistan, whether it did or not, Pakistan will have to respond.

 

[surya kiran]

But you killed 2 of our soldiers through artillery fire

We have to get revenge for them?

I thought, you were going to show 'restraint' like your PM and FO were saying?

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

they told the world about 2 injured soldiers only.
now they have accepted 1 soldier trying to infiltrate had been captured.
their stance is that he crossed LOC by mistake.
what kind of mistake is this that a fully armed indian soldier cross the border accidentally and go to the enemy side during cross borde firing?
they will accept all their failures soon.

 

[surya kiran]

It becomes your problem if Pakistan responds.

Nope. Its not.

Restraint is nothing but BS. I know for a reason that if strike indeed happened as per India than Pakistani response is only logical. It cannot be that strike did not happened and yet it happened. So if India claims that it hit Pakistan, whether it did or not, Pakistan will have to respond.

So you are going to respond to a lie? That will show the world that, though you knew it never happened Pakistan acted militarily. You have already proved to the world that India is lying, since Indians are not giving proof of strike,

 

[IceCold]

So you are going to respond to a lie? That will show the world that, though you knew it never happened Pakistan acted militarily. You have already proved to the world that India is lying, since Indians are not giving proof of strike,

Nobody is going to wait for authenticity of such claims will they? Besides as senior members from pakistan are also suggesting about possible Indian infiltration from 4 points across the LOC, this will show the world that India initiated and Pakistan responded. Lie or not.

 

[sbh02]

No one in the international community will take India's account of "surgical strikes" in Pakistan seriously.

India wanted to portray it destroying terror camps in Pakistan and not attacking the Pakistan Army posts, but no one believes that happened. Everyone sees this as a direct confrontation between the two Armies, and they will tell both nations to de-escalate the tensions.

So, India's version of the story has no credibility in the international world community.

On a positive note for Modi, the pressure he was getting from the Indian public will be relieved for some time, as their faithful hysterical media keeps up the farce.

The Indian media has already been embarrassed for claiming Russia had cancelled military exercises with Pakistan, but the lack of shamelessness of the Indian media knows no bounds.

 

[hussain0216]

I thought, you were going to show 'restraint' like your PM and FO were saying?

What do you think are the chances of that

The idea would be to kill indian troops one way or other in a short amount of time

 

[surya kiran]

What do you think are the chances of that

The idea would be to kill indian troops one way or other in a short amount of time

So you are lying, like you lied about Kargil and Siachen?

 

[That Guy]

Let me re-state what I had in another thread, before that thread started running at 100 pages/per sec. Has it made things worse? Yes, it has. For Pakistan. And its not because Modi wanted to save face.

Joe, these kind of things have taken place before. Both you know it and people who have any kind of background in the armed forces, know it. What has changed is that it is being publicly accepted. There is only one reason, this could have been done. To send a message, saying, "limited war as we have explained is possible. And it will not escalate to a nuclear exchange. We are calling your bluff".

There is no other reason to accept the cross border strike. This has put the PA into a quagmire.

1. You deny it ever happened. This puts a cog in the response. If it never happened, the response cannot be proportionate.

2. If you accept that it happened, then, you have lost face and you will need to respond. If you do not respond, the bluff is called.

Hence, I think, message was sent and received. There will be a few artillery duels now and then diplomats will step in.

What a loaded point, you completely ignore the fact that PA doesn't need to save face here, being under pressure isn't the same thing. If anything, if it turns out that India did go across the border, and does not provide evidence of allegedly killing terrorists, Pakistan will have ammunition against India.

If it turns out that India didn't, and it sure as hell didn't, cross the border, and is lying (so far zero evidence to suggest that India is telling the truth), then Pakistan can rightly and clearly say that India is lying to its own people, thus no point in escalating any further.

If Pakistan does escalate, what will India do? Pakistan has already retaliated against actual Indian attempted aggression, and India has done practically nothing.

Your point is flawed to the basic level.

 

[hussain0216]

So you are lying, like you lied about Kargil and Siachen?

???? About responding to the deaths of soldiers

Or your implausible fantasies

 

[surya kiran]

What a loaded point, you completely ignore the fact that PA doesn't need to save face here, being under pressure isn't the same thing. If anything, if it turns out that India did go across the border, and does not provide evidence of allegedly killing terrorists, Pakistan will have ammunition against India.

If it turns out that India didn't, and it sure as hell didn't, cross the border, and is lying (so far zero evidence to suggest that India is telling the truth), then Pakistan can rightly and clearly say that India is lying to its own people, thus no point in escalating any further.

If Pakistan does escalate, what will India do? Pakistan has already retaliated against actual Indian attempted aggression, and India has done practically nothing.

Your point is flawed to the basic level.

Again, IF this operation did happen, you are assuming it was to kill terrorists. What if I told you, this is done fairly regularly? Both sides know it. If the objective was to plainly take out 'launch pads', then they could have done it, with business as usual. No press conference.

The objective of this was to make a point, that, we are capable of cross border strikes and we have the capability to enforce a limited war, which till date the Pakistani establishment said will escalate immediately to a full fledged nuclear war.

Now, you may chose to believe it did not happen. Like I said before, there will be no evidence presented. The PA if it denies it happened and says, India is lying, it proves India's point that we can initiate cross border raids and publicize it. This is exactly what the PA has done. Which shows it will not escalate.

Had the PA accepted it had happened, the repercussions could have been far worse. If video is now released, it will be even worse. There is a sane thread running on debunking the strikes. May I suggest, you read that too.

P.S : It is nice to have a sane conversation on this topic.

Cheers!

Or your implausible fantasies

I have lots of fantasies. But, would prefer not to discuss them here

 

[That Guy]

Hardly makes a difference to India.

PA already escalates things with terrorist attacks in India every once a while. Lets see what new they can come up with.

Don't reply to me. All you

Again, IF this operation did happen, you are assuming it was to kill terrorists. What if I told you, this is done fairly regularly? Both sides know it. If the objective was to plainly take out 'launch pads', then they could have done it, with business as usual. No press conference.

The objective of this was to make a point, that, we are capable of cross border strikes and we have the capability to enforce a limited war, which till date the Pakistani establishment said will escalate immediately to a full fledged nuclear war.

Now, you may chose to believe it did not happen. Like I said before, there will be no evidence presented. The PA if it denies it happened and says, India is lying, it proves India's point that we can initiate cross border raids and publicize it. This is exactly what the PA has done. Which shows it will not escalate.

Had the PA accepted it had happened, the repercussions could have been far worse. If video is now released, it will be even worse. There is a sane thread running on debunking the strikes. May I suggest, you read that too.

P.S : It is nice to have a sane conversation on this topic.

Cheers!


I have lots of fantasies. But, would prefer not to discuss them here

That is assume your stance is valid, and it isn't. All you've done is speculate on "ifs" and "buts", nothing more. India did not carry out such strikes, there is nothing more to it. All it did was launch some artillery strikes and shot and killed two Pakistani soldiers along the border, that is not a surgical strike, period.

India's goal has been to humiliate and isolate Pakistan internationally, this is its chance, so show the evidence. If India can show that these terrorists existed and were about to cross, Pakistan would have no choice but to back down, due to politically losing against India.

It is as simple as that.

 

[sbh02]

We should also remember, and Bhartis should be reminded of this; Pakistan has given permission to the UN team to visit Azad Kashmir, but India has not done the same for IOK. If there were terrorist camps in Azad Kashmir, why would Pakistan allow the UN team to visit Azad Kashmir freely? India was also the one to ask the UNMOGIP to leave India. India is guilty as hell, and everyone knows it.

 

[-xXx-]

I'm still waiting for that evidence I was told would be presented, so far nothing has been shown.

Quick question - once you are provided a proof, will you not seek blood?

Evidence will only be provided in public if there is a quest to escalate.

Meanwhile army chief congratulated all ranks involved in operations and Rahul Gandhi lauded(sarcasm?) Modi to do a job of PM stature for first time. Rest, I know, you are smart enough to draw your conclusions.

 

[That Guy]

Quick question - once you are provided a proof, will you not seek blood?

Evidence will only be provided in public if there is a quest to escalate.

Meanwhile army chief congratulated all ranks involved in operations and Rahul Gandhi lauded(sarcasm?) Modi to do a job of PM stature for first time. Rest, I know, you are smart enough to draw your conclusions.

I doubt it; in fact, if India can prove it killed terrorists, Pakistan would likely have little choice but to back off, as India would gain practically the entirety of international support.