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India offers secretary-level talks with Pakistan

they should have said that we will consider the indian offer and respond when time comes.
The implication, for those who are Pak-phobic,would be that Pakistan is waiting until something terrible happens to India first, so Pakistan's position will be more advantageous than it is at present. How wise is that?
 
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I understand that there might be a small minority of people in Pakistan who wish for better relations with India, those in favor of talks argue that India is undermining its own position in the country by abstaining from dialogue, but what will these talks achieve really? We don't need cheerleaders, we need solutions. If the Pakistani army isn't on board (and they never will be) we'll just be wasting our breath.

I am deeply saddened by India's absolute lack of fortitude. This is a cycle, India shouldn't have indulged Pakistan again. We get attacked, we stop talking for a while, nothing changes, people forget and then we start talking again. For what? then why did we sever our relations with Pakistan in the first place?

What are we going to do the next time we're attacked? start the whole charade again?

We need definitive action, not this never ending cycle of BS. When will we learn? how many more have to die?
 
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may be i am too stupid...but i really dont like some of the policies of present govt...
 
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Instead, Hezbollah used its military advantage to dominate Lebanon politically and openly declare that its purpose is to use the country as a launching pad to exterminate Jews.

Solomon, can you please send a reference or article to Hezbollah's open declaration. Thanks.
 
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I am deeply saddened by India's absolute lack of fortitude. This is a cycle, India shouldn't have indulged Pakistan again. We get attacked, we stop talking for a while, nothing changes, people forget and then we start talking again. For what? then why did we sever our relations with Pakistan in the first place?

What are we going to do the next time we're attacked? start the whole charade again?

We need definitive action, not this never ending cycle of BS. When will we learn? how many more have to die?

Spitfighter, can you please elaborate further on definitive actions that India needs to take. thanks.
 
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Solomon, can you please send a reference or article to Hezbollah's open declaration. Thanks.

"We invite and call on all Arabs and Muslims and all countries keen on peace and stability in the world to intensify efforts and resources to liberate Jerusalem from Zionist occupation and to maintain its true identity and its Islamic and Christian sanctities." link
It's still a bit obscured, but not my much - and not at all if you include the "Death to Israel" chants of Hezbollah's rallies.
 
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well...I am also against the resumption of talks...so early..
we are offering to talk when all the jihadis of the world are assembling in muzzafarabad to declare a jihad on India...we are too soft to function it seems...
 
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I am against these talks. Don't serve the interests of India. When the masterminds behind Mumbai are safe and untouched the resumption of talks with elements that shield these scum defiles the memory of those dead people. Pak is an enemy nation as far as India is concerned & there is no point in resuming talks.
 
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well...I am also against the resumption of talks...so early..
we are offering to talk when all the jihadis of the world are assembling in muzzafarabad to declare a jihad on India...we are too soft to function it seems...

I am not against the talks but yeah....a bit suspicious. However a welcome move.

As for Jihadi assembling is concerned, they may declare next 1000 or 100000000.... years of war. Nothing is going to change on ground. Just pure :blah::blah: from their side.

India, at first glance, seems soft. However I disagree with the notion being "soft".....How does talk is a symbol of softness?
 
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Why would they do that, rather than choose to keep going? In 2000 many Lebanese thought just as you did: that once the occupation of Lebanon by Israel ended, Hezbollah would lay down their arms. Instead, Hezbollah used its military advantage to dominate Lebanon politically and openly declare that its purpose is to use the country as a launching pad to exterminate Jews.

I have read accounts of other Muslim military leaders struggling with the same question.

In short, I don't see why "Kashmir liberation" fighters wouldn't suddenly become "phsyco islamo fighters fighting for the glory of Islam" once their current cause meets with success.

Well you cannot compare the dynamics of Lebanon with that of a Kashmiri Freedom struggle . In lebanon and other parts of the ME its generaly viewd as traditional rivalry btw Muslims and Jews , so the religious sentiments in such conflicts greatly dominated the cause , be it the PLA,Hizbollah or the mighty Israeli Army ..All of them back their cause through religious sentiments .

But here the Kashmiri struggle is greatly influenced by the acquisition of freedom , and i have never seen these Kashmiri Freedom fighters labeling India as the Enemy of whole Islam or the true Kafir , however the the Jihadi element do exists but again its governed by the cause of achieving freedom not for the cause for servicing Islam as many of the hardcore terrorists use such arguments to support their agenda .
Point is Kashmiri struggle is for freedom not to service Islam as labeled by you to stamp them as terrorists ..!

Even the great Saladin came to the conclusion that once the Crusaders were kicked out of the Holy Land his next course of action would be to take war to the infidels in their homelands.

His prime motivation was to liberate the holy land from the crusaders ... Even under his reighn the jews enjoyed full liberty . I read that , he issued a tax for all those who were not part of the holy land .


A territorial dispute should not be confused with a traditional clash of the civilizations .
 
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Whether people like it o not, as of now, it seems that the talks are on:

India, Pakistan discuss dates for talks, US welcomes it
Fri, Feb 5 07:34 PM

New Delhi/Islamabad/Washington, Feb 5 (IANS) India and Pakistan Friday discussed the dates for talks between their foreign secretaries and the scope of their dialogue that could include other issues besides terrorism.

India's offer of foreign secretary-level talks has predictably raised hopes in Islamabad about a revival of the composite dialogue, with its top leadership discussing the Indian proposal. The US, too, welcomed it, but a cautious New Delhi feels that it is premature to judge the outcome of the talks.

Pakistan's High Commissioner Shahid Malik met Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao Friday evening to discuss dates for the talks between foreign secretaries of the two countries, likely later this month.

Rao had rang up her Pakistani counterpart Salman Bashir ten days ago to invite him to come to New Delhi for talks, sources said.

This will be the first meeting between the two foreign secretaries since they met in New York on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly in September last year.

Rao and Malik also discussed the scope of dialogue with India making it clear it will hold 'discussions with an open and positive mind.' The Pakistani side is pitching to include the issue of Kashmir in the forthcoming talks, but New Delhi wants to focus the discussions on terror at this stage.

India had frozen the composite dialogue in the wake of the attacks that it blamed on elements operating from Pakistan.

It's the first step to test the waters, the sources said. Any decision on resuming the composite dialogue will be taken by Prime Minister Manmohan Signh himself, the sources added.

Much will also depend on Home Minister P. Chidambaram's meetings with Pakistani leaders when he goes to attend the SAARC meting in Islamabad, which was scheduled for Feb 26-28 but has now been postponed.

A positive assessment by India after the talks between foreign secretaries could set the stage for the meeting between their foreign ministers and prime ministers on the sidelines of the SAARC summit in Thimpu April 28-29.

A day after it became public that India had taken a major step by proposing talks between the foreign secretaries, Pakistan Friday termed it a 'positive development' and hoped that it will lead to the full resumption of the composite dialogue. Islamabad also sought clarifications on the agenda for discussions and reiterated that terrorism could not alone be the topic for the talks.

'Overall it is a positive development and we welcome it,' Pakistan Foreign Office spokesperson Abdul Basit told a private TV channel.

After the receipt of the Indian proposal, Pakistan had sought a clarification about the agenda and a reply is awaited, he said. As soon as India responds to this step, further progress would take place, he added.

Hours after the news broke about India's offer, Pakistan's top leadership met in Islamabad Thursday evening to discuss its position.

Pakistan's President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi and army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani were present at the staggered meetings.

Zardari and Kayani first held a one-on-one meeting and Gilani joined them later. Zardari subsequently hosted a dinner that Qureshi also attended.

Qureshi told TV channels that depending on the response to Pakistan's queries from India, Islamabad would like an early resumption of talks.

'We would like to restart from where we left off,' he said, referring to the freezing of the composite dialogue process.

Pakistan has admitted that part of the Mumbai conspiracy was hatched in this country. The trial is also underway here of six operatives of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) for their alleged role in the attack, which India says was masterminded by the terror group's founder, Hafiz Saeed.

The new sign of thaw between the two estranged neighbours was quickly welcomed by Washington, which has always batted for the resumption of dialogue as it feels it will allow the Pakistani military to concentrate on the war against the Taliban.

'We are supportive of dialogue among India, Pakistan and Afghanistan as a key component of moving ahead and achieving a stable region,' State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley told reporters in Washington Thursday.

Indo Asian News Service
 
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Lets not forget that one of the methods used , which really holds for the hardcore terrorists is the Suppression of freedom by blind use of force , hope you got it ..:)

sir

you can twist and turn the words to suit your point of view but i think you got what i was trying to say..
 
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I think talks r waste of time...

see this recent report....

JuD chief Hafiz Saeed threatens 'jehad' over J&K
PTI, 5 February 2010, 08:58pm IST


LAHORE: Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, accused of masterminding the Mumbai attacks, said the only solution to problems between India and Pakistan is the "liberation of Jammu and Kashmir, failing which radical groups would resort to the "option of jehad".

Addressing a gathering of about 10,000 people at the Mall Road here to mark 'Kashmir Solidarity Day', Saeed said this is the message he would convey to Indian home minister P Chidambaram if he came to Lahore during his upcoming visit to Pakistan.

"We are not against composite dialogues. I ask Chidambaram to first come to Lahore before going to Islamabad and hold talks with me. I will tell him a solid solution to the problems between India and Pakistan," said Saeed, accused by India of masterminding the Mumbai attacks.

"There is only one solution to all the problems - liberate Indian-held Kashmir. Otherwise the option of 'jehad' (holy war) is open for us," Saeed said.

He also warned India that the liberation of the erstwhile state of Hyderabad was also on the JuD's agenda.

Saeed, also the founder of the banned Lashker-e-Taiba, warned the Pakistan government not to fool the people in the name of the composite dialogue with India.

"Our rulers get happy whenever India expresses its wish for talks with Pakistan. I want to tell them that India will never talk about liberating Srinagar and Jammu and Pakistan must understand this," he said.



this murderer is clearly saying that they will not stop until india give up kashmir,jammu,hyderabad...they will not stop their "jehad"...:angry:

P.S: icant post the url..coz i have to post more than 15 posts it seems..
the article is from Time of India
 
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~~snip~~

But here the Kashmiri struggle is greatly influenced by the acquisition of freedom , and i have never seen these Kashmiri Freedom fighters labeling India as the Enemy of whole Islam or the true Kafir , however the the Jihadi element do exists but again its governed by the cause of achieving freedom not for the cause for servicing Islam as many of the hardcore terrorists use such arguments to support their agenda .
Point is Kashmiri struggle is for freedom not to service Islam as labeled by you to stamp them as terrorists ..!

~~snip~~

1. Kashmiri freedom fighters??? What's the percentage of those dead/ captured terrorists from Indian side of J&K? Don't you agree majority of them are non-Kashmiries?

2. What's your opinion on these so called freedom fighter's torture/ killing of the Kashmiri pundits (including women and children) and their ultimate expulsion from their homeland?

3. Don't you know India achieved freedom from a then global powerhouse country by way of non-violent ways?

4. Do you seriously think that these mofo terrorists will openly claim their ideological similarties with the others like AQ, TTP which only help in expedition of their eventual demise?

5. I do agree that these started initially with the single point agenda of Kashmir on the behest of then GOP's "thousand cuts to India" policy. However, the situation is a lot different now. The promotion of Jihadist sentiment and by encouraging them CHUPKE SE AUR PICHE-SE WAAD" (Attack discreetly from behind) has resulted in the monsters, who are responsible for unrest in the south Asia in particular and the world in general.

6. Before, people jump on Indian military atrocities in J&K, let me tell you that the number of Indian Army in J&K were minuscule in comparison to today before the start of armed terrorism in J&K. I do not support the Military atrocities either. I know that although some of them are being punished by the judiciary now a days, a lot of them had been swept under the carpet over the years. I myself has seen such atrocities my home state, i.e., Assam. But the point is that, if the violent insurgency was not started and supported on the behest of some evil designs (be it J&K, Khalistan movement or Assam insurgency), would these have happened, at all? If there was no attempt at armed capture of J&K in 1948, would this problem been such a pain in the *** for the two separated brothers (i.e. India and Pakistan).

Newton's third law: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Or, in this case, much larger and opposite reaction.
 
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well i would like to see terrorists responsible for mumbai massacre being hanged by the pakistan govt before any talk can take place.......
 
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